Performance Advice
03-Mar-2006, 02:39 AM
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 74
Performance Advice
Ok, so I'm looking at options of how to spend my income tax return. Some ideas that pop into my head for my eg hatch running a B18C with a cai, muffler, and a few other little bolt ons.
1. DC 4-2-1 headers
2. AEBS Intake Manifold
3. Slotted Rotors with EBC Green pads (need something better than stock for SURE)
4. (if the taxman is generous this year) Crane Street Cams with valve springs
5. MSD Ignition Control 6A model
6. <any suggestions welcomed>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated in helping me get the most out of my civic, and if there's an alternative option, at the most affordable price.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
1. DC 4-2-1 headers
2. AEBS Intake Manifold
3. Slotted Rotors with EBC Green pads (need something better than stock for SURE)
4. (if the taxman is generous this year) Crane Street Cams with valve springs
5. MSD Ignition Control 6A model
6. <any suggestions welcomed>
Any advice would be greatly appreciated in helping me get the most out of my civic, and if there's an alternative option, at the most affordable price.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
03-Mar-2006, 07:35 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,176
dont bother getting an aftermarket ignition.. oem is rated to 300whp.
You are on the right track with the headers, im and cams.. but I work also recommend chipping your ecu and getting it dynotuned. That is probably one of the best upgrade you can do (but re-tune it after you put the cams in)
You are on the right track with the headers, im and cams.. but I work also recommend chipping your ecu and getting it dynotuned. That is probably one of the best upgrade you can do (but re-tune it after you put the cams in)
03-Mar-2006, 12:59 PM
#4
DC headers are garbage.
I love my AEBS intake manifold...best one out there for the price.
Don't waste your money on slotted rotors, but get the pads.
Aftermarket ignition is a waste.
Custom chip is a great idea. But if you know cams are in the future i would hold off on the dyno tuning, b/c its too expensive to have to go back all of the time. So get the mods you want done then go for tuning. Don't go for tuning with just bolt-on's there is only minimal gains to be had. But if you chance the cams, tuning is necessary.
I love my AEBS intake manifold...best one out there for the price.
Don't waste your money on slotted rotors, but get the pads.
Aftermarket ignition is a waste.
Custom chip is a great idea. But if you know cams are in the future i would hold off on the dyno tuning, b/c its too expensive to have to go back all of the time. So get the mods you want done then go for tuning. Don't go for tuning with just bolt-on's there is only minimal gains to be had. But if you chance the cams, tuning is necessary.
03-Mar-2006, 04:46 PM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 74
alright, so I've got a little more valuable info now...
1. ebc green pads are a must, but with oem rotors??
2. no ignition upgrade
3. anyone know where I can get an aebs im in Canada, 'cause if I can avoid it, I don't know if I want to order straight from aebs in USA (border issues)
4. DC headers are "garbage"; so are headers not woth the $$??
5. so cams and im would be the best investment it seems; any idea what kind of gains I should expect??
6. I'll definately get it tuned, that's for sure.
1. ebc green pads are a must, but with oem rotors??
2. no ignition upgrade
3. anyone know where I can get an aebs im in Canada, 'cause if I can avoid it, I don't know if I want to order straight from aebs in USA (border issues)
4. DC headers are "garbage"; so are headers not woth the $$??
5. so cams and im would be the best investment it seems; any idea what kind of gains I should expect??
6. I'll definately get it tuned, that's for sure.
03-Mar-2006, 05:08 PM
#6
well headers are definately worth it (especially a good one), but from my experiences DC are junk.
And it depends on which cams you go with and what your engine setup is to know what kind of gains you will get with cams. Stock compression and valvetrain i wouldn't run anything more than ITR/CTR or stage 1 cams. And to run stage 2 or higher you're going to need a higher CR than stock to see maximum gains out of the cams, also stage 2 and up required upgraded valvetrain and really benefit from headwork (port and polish, valve job, etc).
I would get all of the bolt-ons first before changing the internals.
There are a few things to consider before choosing cams for your setup....such as...what CR you plan on running? Where you want your powerband? Whats the use for the car (street, drag, track)? How built your engine is, things like that.
When i put my stage 2's in with SRI, crappy DC header and 2.25" exhaust it (b16) made a little over 160whp and 113ft/lbs, this was crappily tuned with a vafc2. It pulled nice, or so i thought, until i got a better header w/2.5" collector, 2.5" exhaust, AEBS intake manifold w/fakedata intake manifold gasket and 64mm throttle body. Oh and the head has a p'n'p, 3 angle valve job, milled .030". And its now tuned with crome (custom chip) and it pulls way harder than before. Especially in the midrange, the cams helped so much where the torqueless b16s need the most help.
Long story short, plan each of your mods wisely, keeping in mind what your ideal final setup is. Don't get 2.25" exhaust knowing cams and headwork are down the road, you will only have to upgrade to 2.5"...trust me, i've been there before and wished i planned out my mods knowing what was in the future, i never would've got that crappy DC header, 2.25" exhaust or vafc.
And it depends on which cams you go with and what your engine setup is to know what kind of gains you will get with cams. Stock compression and valvetrain i wouldn't run anything more than ITR/CTR or stage 1 cams. And to run stage 2 or higher you're going to need a higher CR than stock to see maximum gains out of the cams, also stage 2 and up required upgraded valvetrain and really benefit from headwork (port and polish, valve job, etc).
I would get all of the bolt-ons first before changing the internals.
There are a few things to consider before choosing cams for your setup....such as...what CR you plan on running? Where you want your powerband? Whats the use for the car (street, drag, track)? How built your engine is, things like that.
When i put my stage 2's in with SRI, crappy DC header and 2.25" exhaust it (b16) made a little over 160whp and 113ft/lbs, this was crappily tuned with a vafc2. It pulled nice, or so i thought, until i got a better header w/2.5" collector, 2.5" exhaust, AEBS intake manifold w/fakedata intake manifold gasket and 64mm throttle body. Oh and the head has a p'n'p, 3 angle valve job, milled .030". And its now tuned with crome (custom chip) and it pulls way harder than before. Especially in the midrange, the cams helped so much where the torqueless b16s need the most help.
Long story short, plan each of your mods wisely, keeping in mind what your ideal final setup is. Don't get 2.25" exhaust knowing cams and headwork are down the road, you will only have to upgrade to 2.5"...trust me, i've been there before and wished i planned out my mods knowing what was in the future, i never would've got that crappy DC header, 2.25" exhaust or vafc.
03-Mar-2006, 05:50 PM
#7
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 74
Well, this car will be used on the street, as it's my only vehicle until fall. I'm running with a stock compression ratio (to the best of my knowledge) of 10:1 I suppose. I am looking for power from about 3000 right up to 8000, nice and broad so I don't have to worry about hitting a certain engine speed to see/feel the power.
What headers would you recomend, but if I go with a 2.5" collector then I have to get a new cat and exhaust pipe down to the muffler right?? I have only heard good things about Hondata, so that's what I would eventually get it tuned with.
I guess my final goal is to build a very powerful and reliable all-motor (toyed with the idea of turbo, but you gotta put down a lot of cash down at once for everything... but still MAYBE in the future) car.
What headers would you recomend, but if I go with a 2.5" collector then I have to get a new cat and exhaust pipe down to the muffler right?? I have only heard good things about Hondata, so that's what I would eventually get it tuned with.
I guess my final goal is to build a very powerful and reliable all-motor (toyed with the idea of turbo, but you gotta put down a lot of cash down at once for everything... but still MAYBE in the future) car.
03-Mar-2006, 05:57 PM
#8
the BC3+'s work well with lower compression and have lots of midrange power (good for the street).
If you use a header w/2.5" collector you will need a cat with a 2.5" inlet. I got one with a 2.5" inlet and outlet b/c i have 2.5" exhaust. I am using the Vibrant j-spec 4-2-1 w/2.5" collector. Its stainless steel, super sexy and didn't break the bank.
Crome is just as good as hondata but costs way less b/c you don't actually have to buy the hondata unit. But hondata is good, good but expensive.
Powerful + reliable = expensive
Powerful + cheap = blown engine
Reliable + cheap = not very fast
Thats life, get used to it.
If you use a header w/2.5" collector you will need a cat with a 2.5" inlet. I got one with a 2.5" inlet and outlet b/c i have 2.5" exhaust. I am using the Vibrant j-spec 4-2-1 w/2.5" collector. Its stainless steel, super sexy and didn't break the bank.
Crome is just as good as hondata but costs way less b/c you don't actually have to buy the hondata unit. But hondata is good, good but expensive.
Powerful + reliable = expensive
Powerful + cheap = blown engine
Reliable + cheap = not very fast
Thats life, get used to it.
03-Mar-2006, 06:06 PM
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 74
Haha I love that equation set... lol but makes complete sense. I wasn't saying I want to do it cheaply, I just can't fork out 5 grand right now for a kit done properly, so that's why I'm thinking go all-motor and build it up a bit slower, but again, reliable and powerful.
03-Mar-2006, 06:20 PM
#11
with $5000 you could prolly even manage to get some b16 pistons, new rings and bearings, oil/water pump and gasket set for a mini bottom end rebuild and get that compression up a bunch to get the most out of which ever cam you decide to go with.
Realistically, look to spend easily $2000-3000 on building the head and $1500 on the bottom end and $500 for tuning, if you can do the labour yourself. If not, doing anything really to the bottom end is outta the question with a $5000 budget.
But with $5000 you could build the head to the **** (headwork, cams, valvetrain, cam gears) and some bolt-ons and get it all installed.
Realistically, look to spend easily $2000-3000 on building the head and $1500 on the bottom end and $500 for tuning, if you can do the labour yourself. If not, doing anything really to the bottom end is outta the question with a $5000 budget.
But with $5000 you could build the head to the **** (headwork, cams, valvetrain, cam gears) and some bolt-ons and get it all installed.
30-Mar-2006, 02:45 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 74
ok so this is kinda what I've decided, lets hear some opinions...
- Full-Race Stage 1 turbo kit, able to handle up to 450hp with a T3/T04E Turbo
- Hondata S200 with BOOST
- RC Engineering 550cc injectors
- Walbro 255lph FP
- Tuned and Dyno'd
What kind of power can I get out of my B18C1 with this setup and at how much boost do you think? I have stock cr pistons, but properly tuned should still be ok... I'm looking for reliability AND power here.
- Full-Race Stage 1 turbo kit, able to handle up to 450hp with a T3/T04E Turbo
- Hondata S200 with BOOST
- RC Engineering 550cc injectors
- Walbro 255lph FP
- Tuned and Dyno'd
What kind of power can I get out of my B18C1 with this setup and at how much boost do you think? I have stock cr pistons, but properly tuned should still be ok... I'm looking for reliability AND power here.
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