B20Vtec Stock Block + Stock b16 Head
02-Jul-2003, 01:26 PM
#21
OK, since no one except maybe Steve has actually done this on this board, let us refer to good old endyn:
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/
I'm too lazy and disinterested to read this since I got other issues, but if it's anything like other TOO articles, then it makes it a great read. It should shut up a lot of wannabes too I hope *praying*
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/badtothebone/
I'm too lazy and disinterested to read this since I got other issues, but if it's anything like other TOO articles, then it makes it a great read. It should shut up a lot of wannabes too I hope *praying*
02-Jul-2003, 01:43 PM
#22
Some highlights of the article (I read it after all... too much to be had in this article to pass it up)
I'll continue later on...
The cylinder casting that Honda uses in these B20’s is extremely brittle when compared to more resilient “round” individual bore liners. This is simply the nature of a casting such as this where sectional thickness varies so significantly. These cylinders are easily cracked if there’s just a hint of detonation and all it takes to break one of the blocks with the small casting flaws is about 220 HP, so they can certainly be a liability.
I’ve made up my mind that the stroke I’ll use is 89.0mm, so a B18 / B20 crankshaft will be the pick. Once again, I have several cranks here to choose from, but I’ll pick one based on it’s main journal diameters, so overall main bearing thickness will be in the middle of the color chart after the block’s fully machined and ready to assemble
Good boring and honing is an art form / science, and while good equipment is essential, a machinist who has a lifetime of experience (and who charges by the hour rather than having a set price for the operation) is the only way to go, as the right clearances and a good ring seal are all-important to making power. If the rings don’t seal, all the other modifications in the world won’t do you any good, as the power will go right past them.
We don’t ever use the engine’s deck surface as a reference point.
02-Jul-2003, 02:00 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Doontoon
Posts: 152
Endyn follower too eh? Even after all the crap talk, I still enjoy reading that site. I must admit that some of it is vague in such a way to make me kinda suspicious.
You'll see in my post that I recommended keeping the revs below 7500 on the stock sleeves and rods. With the compression the piston/head combo would give, the sleeves should be fine.
Besides, on the street you wouldn't have to rev this combo much to move quickly. Beauty torque curve on these engines.
I'll agree that they would not be my first choice, however...
You'll see in my post that I recommended keeping the revs below 7500 on the stock sleeves and rods. With the compression the piston/head combo would give, the sleeves should be fine.
Besides, on the street you wouldn't have to rev this combo much to move quickly. Beauty torque curve on these engines.
I'll agree that they would not be my first choice, however...
02-Jul-2003, 03:03 PM
#24
Hell yeah, I've been a fan of the old one since 1998... his experience is top notch. I believe Leitner and that place are by far the leading machine shops for any sort of Honda (and non Honda I guess) internal engine work. Others can try, but simply put, experience cannot be replaced... And I say Leitner since he's been in the game for a very long time, and has built many many top notch motors. I know for a fact that if anyone has had problems (I've heard ppl spreading rumours... I investigated... I came to the following conclusion) that any problems that arose after the fact are a result of ***-backwards tuning. A worked over block does not make an engine indestructable... tuning is key no matter what. Leitner's philosophy I find aligns itself with my belielfs, which is why I recommend those having work done to go straight to Leitner. It should be a no-brainer.
02-Jul-2003, 03:12 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Exactly. The motor build is only half the battle. it's the customer's responsibility to know the motor's limtitations and work within those limitations to maintain/tune the motor for peak and reliable performance. a so called "bullet-proof" $10,000 motor is gonna break just as easily as a stock motor if it's not taken care of. which is why i'm so high on maintenance. Leitner built my motor 18 months ago. the engine runs beautifully.
07-Jul-2003, 01:17 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 537
wtf
did you just put leitner in the same sentence as Endyn?
, you've got to kidding me. is leitner the only machine shop in the city? i've dealt with leitner and they do good work, but to say that they are up there with the Endyn builders, you are a serious junkie. if you had the time to read that 2L article, you would realize that the amount of attention to detail is astonishing. they did everything possible to avoid a catastrophe. that particular street car build up was run at 13.34/1 c/r. so you could image the extent of the work, that is a $15+k build. lastly, the baddest, illest motors to leave that shop (leitner) were built by G.B, you know who i'm talking about.
, you've got to kidding me. is leitner the only machine shop in the city? i've dealt with leitner and they do good work, but to say that they are up there with the Endyn builders, you are a serious junkie. if you had the time to read that 2L article, you would realize that the amount of attention to detail is astonishing. they did everything possible to avoid a catastrophe. that particular street car build up was run at 13.34/1 c/r. so you could image the extent of the work, that is a $15+k build. lastly, the baddest, illest motors to leave that shop (leitner) were built by G.B, you know who i'm talking about.
08-Jul-2003, 12:11 PM
#28
Re: wtf
Originally posted by m power
did you just put leitner in the same sentence as Endyn? , you've got to kidding me. is leitner the only machine shop in the city? i've dealt with leitner and they do good work, but to say that they are up there with the Endyn builders, you are a serious junkie. if you had the time to read that 2L article, you would realize that the amount of attention to detail is astonishing. they did everything possible to avoid a catastrophe. that particular street car build up was run at 13.34/1 c/r. so you could image the extent of the work, that is a $15+k build. lastly, the baddest, illest motors to leave that shop (leitner) were built by G.B, you know who i'm talking about.
did you just put leitner in the same sentence as Endyn?
, you've got to kidding me. is leitner the only machine shop in the city? i've dealt with leitner and they do good work, but to say that they are up there with the Endyn builders, you are a serious junkie. if you had the time to read that 2L article, you would realize that the amount of attention to detail is astonishing. they did everything possible to avoid a catastrophe. that particular street car build up was run at 13.34/1 c/r. so you could image the extent of the work, that is a $15+k build. lastly, the baddest, illest motors to leave that shop (leitner) were built by G.B, you know who i'm talking about.
you shouldn't be looking to build a motor.
09-Jul-2003, 12:38 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 537
whatever
bbarbulo- what a cute picture. i wouldn't expect anything more, from a barbie racing team member. you blinkin' bahtie bwoy.
b16civic- don't take it the wrong way. i'm just saying that leitner is not the best. your shop is good, but your barbie bredren, thinks that you are the ****. lastly, the question is not, how much power you made, but how reliable the motor is. 205whp from a b16, now that's impressive, but, i know that the motor has 84mm sleeves, so your only fooling the ignorant. i don't even need to justify myself, you do.
b16civic- don't take it the wrong way. i'm just saying that leitner is not the best. your shop is good, but your barbie bredren, thinks that you are the ****. lastly, the question is not, how much power you made, but how reliable the motor is. 205whp from a b16, now that's impressive, but, i know that the motor has 84mm sleeves, so your only fooling the ignorant. i don't even need to justify myself, you do.
19-Jul-2003, 12:16 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 537
wtf
b16civic- i don't think it is me who doesn't get it, it's you. i could swear that you said you had built a b16a that made 206whp? well b16a's are 81mm bore not 84mm, so, i guess you are just talking ****. there are only a hand full of 81mm-81.5mm b16a's that make in excess of 200whp, and you only wish that you built one. i'm just saying, don't mislead the public. making 200+whp with any 84mm bore honda is quite simple. oh yeah, you said displacement creates more torque than hp, well a bigger engine will make more power easier, due to the fact that it is larger. you make it sound like the displacement did not affect your overall hp. anyway, maybe someone who knows very little will agree with you.
bond007- yeah, and every person has a mouth, and my dick is brushing your girls teeth.
bruno- i'm not even going to waste my time.
bond007- yeah, and every person has a mouth, and my dick is brushing your girls teeth.
bruno- i'm not even going to waste my time.
19-Jul-2003, 12:20 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,906
Re: wtf
Originally posted by m power
b16civic- i don't think it is me who doesn't get it, it's you. i could swear that you said you had built a b16a that made 206whp? well b16a's are 81mm bore not 84mm, so, i guess you are just talking ****. there are only a hand full of 81mm-81.5mm b16a's that make in excess of 200whp, and you only wish that you built one. i'm just saying, don't mislead the public. making 200+whp with any 84mm bore honda is quite simple. oh yeah, you said displacement creates more torque than hp, well a bigger engine will make more power easier, due to the fact that it is larger. you make it sound like the displacement did not affect your overall hp. anyway, maybe someone who knows very little will agree with you.
bond007- yeah, and every person has a mouth, and my dick is brushing your girls teeth.
bruno- i'm not even going to waste my time.
b16civic- i don't think it is me who doesn't get it, it's you. i could swear that you said you had built a b16a that made 206whp? well b16a's are 81mm bore not 84mm, so, i guess you are just talking ****. there are only a hand full of 81mm-81.5mm b16a's that make in excess of 200whp, and you only wish that you built one. i'm just saying, don't mislead the public. making 200+whp with any 84mm bore honda is quite simple. oh yeah, you said displacement creates more torque than hp, well a bigger engine will make more power easier, due to the fact that it is larger. you make it sound like the displacement did not affect your overall hp. anyway, maybe someone who knows very little will agree with you.
bond007- yeah, and every person has a mouth, and my dick is brushing your girls teeth.
bruno- i'm not even going to waste my time.
19-Jul-2003, 03:10 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,149
have you ever heard the sayign it is easier to make hp than it is torque...which is the whoel point of the crvtec..the block already is setup for torque then you add the vtec head blah blah then you get soem nice hp while retaning the torque because of the rod stroke ratio and displacement...either way it seems like everyday there is a noob talkgin about ls/vtecs liekt hey knwo what they are talkgin about when they don't...this site is full of dreamers keyboard tuners and noobs....I said goodday
19-Jul-2003, 07:01 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,084
if only we could speak to an engineer who works in Top Fuel Japan or Feel's Japan, they could possibly set things straight about this CRVTEC debate 
Who the hell is G.B?
M Power, what's your beef against Leitner? bbarbulo said in his opinion that they're the best, so let it be.
let's all concentrate on what the question at hand is, and less the "who's the best in the business".
this isn't the voting booth for the "best machine shop in Canada" or whatever, so share your knowledge about this frankenstein motor and let us all learn
I'm curious to know too, I don't know **** about frank motors and I've only started to begun learning about tuning stock motors
Who the hell is G.B?
M Power, what's your beef against Leitner? bbarbulo said in his opinion that they're the best, so let it be.
let's all concentrate on what the question at hand is, and less the "who's the best in the business".
this isn't the voting booth for the "best machine shop in Canada" or whatever, so share your knowledge about this frankenstein motor and let us all learn
I'm curious to know too, I don't know **** about frank motors and I've only started to begun learning about tuning stock motors
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