b20 difference
10-Aug-2006, 02:05 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Durham Region
Posts: 161
Originally posted by zeeman
man, you could've had the potential to make hoards of power with that setup. Why cheap out on higher compression pistons and loose out on so much power?
=
man, you could've had the potential to make hoards of power with that setup. Why cheap out on higher compression pistons and loose out on so much power?
=
10-Aug-2006, 04:52 AM
#45
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 310
so my stage 2 is no good eh...the skunk2 stage 2 mite be a lil too big, i have some old cat cams i bought from a member which i put in my b16 a while back..they are cat cams...They are less agressive duration and less of a lift...Maybe i should use those cams.....ANd i want 200whp but since you guys said it mite not be possible, i am setteling for 180......My b16 makes 164 whp....so, its a pretty good jump, and i know my tq rite now is 104, so this should make more wheel tq
10-Aug-2006, 06:52 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 770
This kid is hurting my head 
, first he says hes buidling the b20z with sir head for 1650.
And now he says hes going to 180whp.
Also theres no way in hell your spending 1650 to build a motor with that kind of power. cams, springs, retainers, port and polish. just accessories to your motor will cost over that price.
, first he says hes buidling the b20z with sir head for 1650.
and im paying 800 for someone t take my motor out but a b20z in and use my b16 head with skunk2 internals and make it vtec......so 1650 and im in the 200 whp league
i have a b16 head with skunk 2 stage 2 cams , toda cam gears, ported head, with omni larger valves and omni valve springs and retainers, with a b20 z block, and a skunk 2 intake mani and tb ported to match, as well as a aem cai, full headers 2.5 inch collector and 2.5 inch piping, mugen exhaust no ps, or ac, obd1 tune with vafc 2, and unorthodox pullys, stage 2 clutch master cluttch and a lightened flywheel 7.5 pounds...u sure that wont make 180 hp with a good tune
10-Aug-2006, 05:36 PM
#47
Originally posted by chris_si98
hey lenny go do another LOF
hey lenny go do another LOF
12-Aug-2006, 10:35 AM
#48
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 310
cat cams 600
omni valve springs and retainers 500
stage 2 cluthc and light flywheel 7 ponds 1000 clutch master
cai 300-k and n filter 75
pullys 200
itr intkae mani and tb from 01-500
b16a2-2000
b20z-850
obd1 jumper 150
p28 chipped 200
vafc2 550
omni valve springs and retainers 500
stage 2 cluthc and light flywheel 7 ponds 1000 clutch master
cai 300-k and n filter 75
pullys 200
itr intkae mani and tb from 01-500
b16a2-2000
b20z-850
obd1 jumper 150
p28 chipped 200
vafc2 550
12-Aug-2006, 12:37 PM
#50
ditch the pulleys and vafc2, you've got a chipped p28 so a vafc is taking a step down compared to getting a custom chip made with crome, and you've got an ecu thats "crome-ready". So just get someone to tune it (which will cost less than the price of the vafc) and be done with the better results than you would get with the vafc.
12-Aug-2006, 12:59 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 537
b20 200whp basic set up
jdm b20b shortblock
itr/ctr cams
decent header w/2.5" collector
untouched stock pr3 head
oem t/b
port matched p30 im
fakedata im gasket
2.5" str8 pipe, 2.5" mandrel exhaust
sri/cai w/good filter
full tune
190-200whp all day long
jdm b20b shortblock
itr/ctr cams
decent header w/2.5" collector
untouched stock pr3 head
oem t/b
port matched p30 im
fakedata im gasket
2.5" str8 pipe, 2.5" mandrel exhaust
sri/cai w/good filter
full tune
190-200whp all day long
13-Aug-2006, 10:48 AM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: mississauga
Posts: 1,607
another guy on here.. 1sloweg i think was telling me for $2600 for a built b20vtec ...
that was 2600 to assemble the bottom end and top end, put it all together ready for drop in. This would include, rs machine high compression pistons (11.5:1), eagle h beam rods, arp head bolts, arp rod bolts, fully hot tanked, decked, honed, vtec conversion, deck the head, minor port job on the head and intake manifold."
he was telling me most of their builds end up around 220whp and 160+wtq... i'm not 100% sure if you make that hp out of this build... but he was telling me more or less with the listed set-up and a good tune i should be getting at least 200whp and 150-170wtq hopefully... and you can go to 8200 as a daily driver np... running at least 94 of course with that compression.
that sounds good enough for me... if i were to go boost, this is roughly the same cost and you will finally have torque... lots of it... almost what you would make with some mild boost...
that was 2600 to assemble the bottom end and top end, put it all together ready for drop in. This would include, rs machine high compression pistons (11.5:1), eagle h beam rods, arp head bolts, arp rod bolts, fully hot tanked, decked, honed, vtec conversion, deck the head, minor port job on the head and intake manifold."
he was telling me most of their builds end up around 220whp and 160+wtq... i'm not 100% sure if you make that hp out of this build... but he was telling me more or less with the listed set-up and a good tune i should be getting at least 200whp and 150-170wtq hopefully... and you can go to 8200 as a daily driver np... running at least 94 of course with that compression.
that sounds good enough for me... if i were to go boost, this is roughly the same cost and you will finally have torque... lots of it... almost what you would make with some mild boost...
17-Aug-2006, 01:41 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 919
Sorry.. i should have posted this info earlier i think it will help you guys out:
_________________________________________________
How to identify your B20 Motor:
Let's first start off by saying that ALL USDM motors will have a number after the last letter in it's engine code. The Engine code stamp can be found where the transmission and block mate at the front of the motor. The JDM motors do not have this number after the last letter. For example, a B20B1 is a USDM motor, whereas a B20B is a JDM motor.This is important to understand in determining which motor you have.
Next, there weren't any B20Z's in Japan. All the JDM B20's were stamped B20B, regardless of the year. You can tell the year of the motor by checking the year/month the head was cast in. The year is located just above the fourth exhaust runner. It is in a circle with a slash through it. Disregard the slash as it means nothing. For example a circle with a 9/8 is a motor that was made in 1998. Be careful though, as this is not a 100% accurate based solely on the year. You must also look at the month it was made. Again, it is right next to the year and will have the month in a circle with a slash through it. Just like the year, if it says 1/1, that means it was made in november, the eleventh month. I'll show you why the year is not 100% accurate. If a motor was made in 98, but was made in november or december of that year, it is actually a 99 motor. That is because they start making the motors early for the next years vehicles. If the head was made in september/october though, that is a tossup as it may either be the year cast on the head, or the next year, because that is the crossover where they stop making the current years vehicles and start producing the next year's vehicles.
Believe it or not, almost all B20's, regardless of year, come with the 96+ Integra LS P75 head. They are 99% identical. They have the same valves, springs, valve covers, distributors, cam gears, etc. as 96+ USDM/JDM P75 Integra LS heads. The only differences are w/ the variances in camshafts. There is one exception however. The B20 motor was equipped in MANY vehicles in Japan, mainly the SM-X, Step Wagon, CRV, and Orthia. Of the many B20 powered vehicles, three of them came with the P8R head, and only in certain model years. The Orthia, which came out in 1996 was one. The other was the Step Wagon. The orthia came with the P8R head in it's 96-98 model years and the step wagon came with the P8R equipped B20B in it's 96-98 model years. The CRV also came with either the P8R head or P75 head in it's 96-98 model years. The P8R head is a completely different casting than P75 heads which were used on all other B20's. This head came with 84mm combustion chambers and 33mm vtec sized intake valves.
All 99-00 B20's have a knock sensor, regardless of where it comes from, which signifies the high compression 9.6:1 motor. If your B20 does NOT have a knock sensor, it is not the 9.6:1 compression motor. High compression B20's use "PHK" pistons which have a less of a dish them, as the "P3f" pistons found in the low compression B20's do. All B20's have an 84mm Bore and an 89mm stroke regardless of year. They are internally and externally identical to 96+ B18B's, with the exception of the Pistons, sleeves the intake manifold and cams. They all have an 81mm combustion chamber diameter as well, except for the "P8R" head, which has an 84mm diameter and larger valves, as described above.
Here is a list of the different compression ratios and Power Ratings for B20's, in regards to the year and origin of the motor:
USDM:
96-98 Honda CRV
126 HP, 133 ft/lbs TQ
compression: 8.8:1
99-00 Honda CRV
146 HP, 133 Ft/lbs TQ
compression: 9.6:1
JDM (taken from Japan's Honda website):
96-98 Honda Orthia
143 HP, 132 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
96-98 Honda Step Wagon
123 HP,133 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
99-00 Honda Step Wagon
134 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
96-98 Honda CRV (two variants)
128 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
8.8:1 compression
143 HP, 132 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
99-00 Honda CRV
148 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
96-98 Honda SM-X
128 HP, 135 ft/lbs TQ
8.8:1 compression
99-00 Honda SM-X
138 HP, 137 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
These power figures are worthless for you and me, in the sense that these numbers are for these motors in their respective stock vehicles. Take into account that these numbers are with the restrictive CRV header/exhaust, extremely restrictive CRV ECU with it's conservative fuel/ignition tables, restrictive CRV Intake, etc. I've seen multiple B20's dyno in the 125-140 HP range with nothing more than an intake, header, and exhaust, with torque numbers in the 130-140 FT/LBS region. Which is more torque than they are rated at to the flywheel. Based on the factory numbers, these kind of gains shouldn't be made just with an intake and exhaust upgrade. This just goes to show you how underated these motors are from the factory. There is a Rule of thumb that says whp numbers should be about 15-20% lower than flywheel rated horsepower. By using that formula, High compression B20 motors should be rated closer to 160 Hp and low compression B20 motors should be rated closer to 145 wheel horsepower.
BEWARE!! Do NOT let engine importers fool you. Many of them knowingly try to sell you a "JDM" B20B and tell you that ALL JDM B20B's are high compression. As many of you have just learned, this is not true. They tell you this because demand for the low compression motors is alot less than the higher compression B20's. Many importers just don't know the difference. But don't take that chance. The only REAL way to tell is if the motor has a knock sensor.
***I'm still trying to find more information on this P8R head. As of now, it appears that all the B20's w/ the P8R head come with a 2 layer headgasket, which is part of the reason the compression ratio on them is 9.2:1. Another reason the compression ratio is 9.2:1 is because the valves are 33mm and not 31mm, which takes up more space in the head, giving it a higher compression ratio than w/ the P75 heads.
_________________________________________________
How to identify your B20 Motor:
Let's first start off by saying that ALL USDM motors will have a number after the last letter in it's engine code. The Engine code stamp can be found where the transmission and block mate at the front of the motor. The JDM motors do not have this number after the last letter. For example, a B20B1 is a USDM motor, whereas a B20B is a JDM motor.This is important to understand in determining which motor you have.
Next, there weren't any B20Z's in Japan. All the JDM B20's were stamped B20B, regardless of the year. You can tell the year of the motor by checking the year/month the head was cast in. The year is located just above the fourth exhaust runner. It is in a circle with a slash through it. Disregard the slash as it means nothing. For example a circle with a 9/8 is a motor that was made in 1998. Be careful though, as this is not a 100% accurate based solely on the year. You must also look at the month it was made. Again, it is right next to the year and will have the month in a circle with a slash through it. Just like the year, if it says 1/1, that means it was made in november, the eleventh month. I'll show you why the year is not 100% accurate. If a motor was made in 98, but was made in november or december of that year, it is actually a 99 motor. That is because they start making the motors early for the next years vehicles. If the head was made in september/october though, that is a tossup as it may either be the year cast on the head, or the next year, because that is the crossover where they stop making the current years vehicles and start producing the next year's vehicles.
Believe it or not, almost all B20's, regardless of year, come with the 96+ Integra LS P75 head. They are 99% identical. They have the same valves, springs, valve covers, distributors, cam gears, etc. as 96+ USDM/JDM P75 Integra LS heads. The only differences are w/ the variances in camshafts. There is one exception however. The B20 motor was equipped in MANY vehicles in Japan, mainly the SM-X, Step Wagon, CRV, and Orthia. Of the many B20 powered vehicles, three of them came with the P8R head, and only in certain model years. The Orthia, which came out in 1996 was one. The other was the Step Wagon. The orthia came with the P8R head in it's 96-98 model years and the step wagon came with the P8R equipped B20B in it's 96-98 model years. The CRV also came with either the P8R head or P75 head in it's 96-98 model years. The P8R head is a completely different casting than P75 heads which were used on all other B20's. This head came with 84mm combustion chambers and 33mm vtec sized intake valves.
All 99-00 B20's have a knock sensor, regardless of where it comes from, which signifies the high compression 9.6:1 motor. If your B20 does NOT have a knock sensor, it is not the 9.6:1 compression motor. High compression B20's use "PHK" pistons which have a less of a dish them, as the "P3f" pistons found in the low compression B20's do. All B20's have an 84mm Bore and an 89mm stroke regardless of year. They are internally and externally identical to 96+ B18B's, with the exception of the Pistons, sleeves the intake manifold and cams. They all have an 81mm combustion chamber diameter as well, except for the "P8R" head, which has an 84mm diameter and larger valves, as described above.
Here is a list of the different compression ratios and Power Ratings for B20's, in regards to the year and origin of the motor:
USDM:
96-98 Honda CRV
126 HP, 133 ft/lbs TQ
compression: 8.8:1
99-00 Honda CRV
146 HP, 133 Ft/lbs TQ
compression: 9.6:1
JDM (taken from Japan's Honda website):
96-98 Honda Orthia
143 HP, 132 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
96-98 Honda Step Wagon
123 HP,133 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
99-00 Honda Step Wagon
134 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
96-98 Honda CRV (two variants)
128 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
8.8:1 compression
143 HP, 132 ft/lbs TQ
9.2:1 compression
99-00 Honda CRV
148 HP, 136 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
96-98 Honda SM-X
128 HP, 135 ft/lbs TQ
8.8:1 compression
99-00 Honda SM-X
138 HP, 137 ft/lbs TQ
9.6:1 compression
These power figures are worthless for you and me, in the sense that these numbers are for these motors in their respective stock vehicles. Take into account that these numbers are with the restrictive CRV header/exhaust, extremely restrictive CRV ECU with it's conservative fuel/ignition tables, restrictive CRV Intake, etc. I've seen multiple B20's dyno in the 125-140 HP range with nothing more than an intake, header, and exhaust, with torque numbers in the 130-140 FT/LBS region. Which is more torque than they are rated at to the flywheel. Based on the factory numbers, these kind of gains shouldn't be made just with an intake and exhaust upgrade. This just goes to show you how underated these motors are from the factory. There is a Rule of thumb that says whp numbers should be about 15-20% lower than flywheel rated horsepower. By using that formula, High compression B20 motors should be rated closer to 160 Hp and low compression B20 motors should be rated closer to 145 wheel horsepower.
BEWARE!! Do NOT let engine importers fool you. Many of them knowingly try to sell you a "JDM" B20B and tell you that ALL JDM B20B's are high compression. As many of you have just learned, this is not true. They tell you this because demand for the low compression motors is alot less than the higher compression B20's. Many importers just don't know the difference. But don't take that chance. The only REAL way to tell is if the motor has a knock sensor.
***I'm still trying to find more information on this P8R head. As of now, it appears that all the B20's w/ the P8R head come with a 2 layer headgasket, which is part of the reason the compression ratio on them is 9.2:1. Another reason the compression ratio is 9.2:1 is because the valves are 33mm and not 31mm, which takes up more space in the head, giving it a higher compression ratio than w/ the P75 heads.
17-Aug-2006, 01:46 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZeyPh0wn3d
Posts: 5,410
Originally posted by m power
b20 200whp basic set up
jdm b20b shortblock
itr/ctr cams
decent header w/2.5" collector
untouched stock pr3 head
oem t/b
port matched p30 im
fakedata im gasket
2.5" str8 pipe, 2.5" mandrel exhaust
sri/cai w/good filter
full tune
190-200whp all day long
b20 200whp basic set up
jdm b20b shortblock
itr/ctr cams
decent header w/2.5" collector
untouched stock pr3 head
oem t/b
port matched p30 im
fakedata im gasket
2.5" str8 pipe, 2.5" mandrel exhaust
sri/cai w/good filter
full tune
190-200whp all day long
17-Aug-2006, 02:18 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 770
Question those compression ratios means crap if you build the block. so if you were to get the low compression block and build it, it wouldt really matter which block you had?
i didnt know about the compression ratios were different.
But i got a kock sensor.
i didnt know about the compression ratios were different.
But i got a kock sensor.
17-Aug-2006, 02:58 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 919
Originally posted by plzbeleiveit
Question those compression ratios means crap if you build the block. so if you were to get the low compression block and build it, it wouldt really matter which block you had?
i didnt know about the compression ratios were different.
But i got a kock sensor.
Question those compression ratios means crap if you build the block. so if you were to get the low compression block and build it, it wouldt really matter which block you had?
i didnt know about the compression ratios were different.
But i got a kock sensor.
