SloHatch.95

Thank you Zeeman and Nicotine; to the others as well. So I could save my money and just build the block and leave the head you are saying? My brother has an AEM EMS he would let me use but I also have a Chipped ECU already. I know what you mean about bigger injectors though, you can't really overdue it because you can just tune them down. I have a CX but I'm sure the DX is just as bad. I had in mind that I wanted to get EBC all around and convert the rear to disc. My car looks alright but I do want to fix a bit of rust on it so... I can do the engine components now. If you all don't mind I have lots of questions and I am wondering if you wouldn't mind answering them.

Nicotine

no need to do sleeves if you're doing 350whp....

the cams arn't necessary....

zeeman had my block sleeves slightly bored/honed to make sure the cyl walls were fresh and proper. the head and block were planked, and we built it up from there.

if you were aiming for 450, 500..then sleeves would be of concern...

for 350whp, i'd hit up some 750cc injectors. that way you arn't maxing their duty cycle, and you have room to move up if necessary.

i did eagle rods, je pistons, eagle rod bolts, honda oem rod bearings, oem valves/seals, arp head studs, 3 layer metal head gasket, 750cc injectors, Garrett GT35R turbo.

me and zeeman are doing a solid street tune this sunday for the setup (setting up neptune), and on tues im heading to the dyno!

it's good you are asking questions, rather than having to redo steps over..that gets expensive fast.

id start by stripping the block, get it machine shopped. nothing overly crazy, but make sure your cyl walls are fresh, get the block and head planked to make sure they are flush, order up some rod bearings, and you're off to a solid start.

SloHatch.95

I'd like to know your setup; as for boost I mean(how much). Let me know what numbers you put down too. I think if I were to do the 350whp build then i'd do a slight overbore, aftermarket pistons and rods. For the rest I would just do what is needed for a rebuilt engine to work properly. I'd get a CTR crank pulley too because they do wonders for their price.

chris_v2

EBC brakes will do very little around town, they work at their best when warmed up or at the track. If you want better braking, you should upgrade the mc/bb. But you can worry about one thing at a time. But yeah, leave the head alone, get oversized pistons and rings, go to a reputable machine shop for a bore/hone and install (if you want them to assemble it for you). I'd be looking at around $4000 for your turbo setup if you want good quality parts that are new.

Nicotine

only oversize the pistons enuff to clean up the cyl walls.

me and zeeman street tuned it today, heading to the dyno tues.

street tuning with zeeman is mad fun..guy is hilarious. good time was had by all.

i think you're heading in the right direction. buy the KEY items first, then the fancy **** at the end with what you have left.

you know what platform you're going, so snag the turbo kit...i'd suggest no smaller than 750cc injectors (i use RC Engineering, VERY happy with em, zeeman uses precision. both are solid brands)

then, snag the pistons (talk to zeeman about bore size and compression...) and rods and piston rings/rod bolts, arp head studs....

gonna do new valves/seals? (even oem?) - if not, check the condition of the head you're using... valves, seals, springs, and general quality of the head itself. (maybe even get it machined for more flow...)

SloHatch.95

You guys are both right. When rebuilding I will be replacing all parts, even if with oem parts.

Nicotine

oem stuff is quality. there's a reason honda's last forever!

are you snagging that turbo setup from the site you posted?

(btw, JRP has a lot of stuff locally, if you need stuff in a pinch)

LEITNER

maybe i read it wrong but somewhere someone said dont do the head because its boosted....for the record, WRONG!!!! the head should AT LEAST have a valve job and resurface not to mention new valve guides and seals if the head has any age on it.

i am also seeing alot of other stuff thats wrong...the same care that is in building an NA engine is used for turbo engines...all the same tight tolerance on piston to head piton to valve valve to valve are used. just because the turbo is doing all the work of stuffing air in to the cylinder doesnt mean that the concepts of a performance build are not followed. just as much tweeking is involved, and quality parts are not going to help if the builder is a putz

Nicotine

^^ truth

care has to be done either way. and, i did say that the head work should be done, even if only replaced with OEM valves/seals for now. though, if you price parts out, most aftermarket higher end stuff (ferrera - spelling??) isn't all that much more than oem.

cutting corners anywhere costs way more in the long run, when stuff goes wrong or has to be redone over...

slowhatch, have you bought anything yet?

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

all i meant steve was that the head doesn't really need anything more than a quick once over at the machine shop (valve job,new valve seals/guides if it needs them and a resurface). And that it doesn't need to be ported, you don't need crazy expensive valve springs and retainers (although necessary if you wanna rev it out higher), you don't need to drop $700 on cams, you don't need to go have the rocker arms lightened, you don't need oversized valves, although these things would definately benefit a boosted setup, worry about the more important things first.
While tuning with nicotine we discussed this a little (both having built engines that are boosted and have been through it all). We were saying that if you have a budget of $10,000 you could either get a really nice setup that'll make crazy power and be hella fun to drive, or you could get a sick turbo kit, fancy boost controller, crazy expensive guages, turbo timer, the most expensive turbo and manifold, AEM EMS, then run out of money before you finished gathering parts to build the engine and sort of be screwed.
So, you should concentrate on the most important things IMO. Such as, getting a nice turbo kit (or all of the parts necessary), your engine management/tuning, building the bottom end (rods, pistons, bearings, ARP hardware, machine work, new oil/water pump, etc etc), then a quick rebuild of the head, get a good clutch that'll handle the power, then buy your fancy turbo timer, boost controller, guages if you have funds left over. Its all about priorities when you have a strict budget and you don't wanna be left not being ablt to afford paying someone to assemble the engine or can't afford tuning.
Also keep in mind the cost of labour (if you aren't doing it yourself), you can easily spend well over $1000 at the machine shop getting your block bored/honed, balanced, line honed, getting new valve guides installed, new valve seals and of course assembling the engine. Shops charge around $600-1000 to do an engine swap (or to pull the current engine out to get rebuilt and installing it back in once its ready), shops charge $600-1000 to install a turbo kit and do any necessary fab work, you'll pay anywhere from $300-1000 for tuning depending on whether you want just a solid street tune and/or dyno tuning, not to mention the inital cost of the engine management system you are using (neptune is $450, hondata is $600, AEM EMS is $1200-1500, crome is free you just pay for the tune).
And of course you'll want a full 3" exhaust, which could run you anywhere from $600-1500 depending on what you need. If your turbo kit comes with a 3" downpipe then you'll only need a 3" cat and cat back system. If your turbo kit doesn't come with a downpipe, or you're peicing a kit together you'll need a downpipe fabbed up, which can cost $300-500. And i haven't even mentioned the tranny, you'll most likely want a limited-slip differential, whether it be a stock tranny with OEM LSD or a $1000+ quaife or kaaz LSD. Combined with a heavy duty clutch and an aftermarket flywheel you could easily spend $2000+ just on the tranny/clutch/flywheel. Now you can definately get away with a stock tranny with a good clutch, but imagine trying to put down 350whp through an open differential, you're track times won't be so great (if you care).
So you can see how you could either spend your money wisely and get everything you wanted, or just start buying random parts, without thinking of future purchases or how what parts are going to work with other parts you've bought and end up out of money without everything you need (labour or more parts).

MrBlondie69

lemmi tell ya boosting can be tricky and I must say thanks to andrew he's here for me when I am stuck and guided me in the right direction. when I say u want the best damn u gotta pay for the best. here's my build if ur looking for a guideline I am doin a b20vtec boosted http://www.torontocivics.com/tccv5fo...ead.php?t=2818
good luck

SloHatch.95

I will definately need to be guided a bit because I would rather hear from someone with experience than to mess everything up. I have some knowledge but I have never done this before. I haven't bought anything. This would all have to wait. I have yet to pay off the engine. This is all just for guidance. I appreciate everyones help. I have noticed that you all stress on getting LSD.

seanv98

Zeeman makes a great point about not forgetting to think about all the little things. When your ready to start making your list, you should try and meet up with him, I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping you make a list.

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

kingsville is far from hamilton...lol.
Just search on honda-tech, turbod16.org, homemadeturbo.com there is an insane amount of info on those sites, sure you'll have to sift through some B.S. but for the most part those sites are pretty good.

SloHatch.95

I appreciate all the help you have given me. I have learned more from you in the past few posts than I have everywhere I have read something. I have changed my mind a bit again...lol. I was talking to my friend and he sort of pursueded me to just keep it a non Vtec. 350whp is 350whp right? Also... I could do the exact same thing I always wanted to do to this engine anyways, or head I mean... I would replace all parts and still the same bottom end I wanted... Anybody know where the stock Ls cams stop making power? There is no point revving an engine out to 8 or 9 grand if it doesn't make power upto there.

screwface

better learn to read compressor maps then, and get a turbo that fits your criteria. i hear the stock ls will push 300hp stock so you already have the engine in the bay it's probably a better investment to just boost it and see how you like it and meantime you can spend your time to build another block to take smackloads of boost

SloHatch.95

Screwface; I understand what you are saying. I know that each Turbocharger has its own array of RPM range and where it quits making power. I know about the trims and the housings and all that too. I just wanted to know if the stock cams would let it flow for that kind of abuse. If not then I would still want to do VTEC

Ek4_hatch

hey, i have a solution for u to get 200 horse power for essentially free:
Sell your civic, hopefully its worth 6000$ and buy this civic..
http://www.torontocivics.com/tccv5fo...uct/5002/cat/3

Shablam!! 200 hoarse h22 powered civic. will eat up the ls/vtec you want to build

akira

Stock cams will make 350 in a LS, the amount of boost youll have to through at it will be the variable (vs aftermarket cams)
I made 300whp 250tq ~12psi on a stock ls, and its a great motor for boost.
my suggestion for you is boost your stock ls, get a standard turbo kit, t3/t04e 57 trim, ramhorn, tial 38mm gate.... but make sure the clutch, injectors and what not are large enough for when/if you want to upgrade. then if you want to make more you can pull the motor and build it. that way you can kinda split the cost... boost it this year then over the winter next year (if you want) you can rebuild it for more power.