Goal of 200whp
10-Jan-2008, 03:18 PM
#1
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Goal of 200whp
I don't like being a bench racer but I was wondering if people out on this message board have the experience with LSVTEC's. I have a goal of 200whp and around 150wtrq. What I would do to get there would be... Wiseco Pistons and Rods, Skunk 2 Stage 2 Cams and what parts are needed to make the Cams work properly to full potential. Most likely some Ebay 4-1 Header JDM ITR that I found for 150. I would hope that this would bring me to around the 200whp marker... what do you guys think? What setups have you seen that pull around that? Also... If the LS and the B20 have the same exact crank... wouldn't it be easier to just get the B20 rods and pistons; bore out the LS to have the pistons fit... would that work? Somehow the B20VTEC always pulls better numbers and torque.
10-Jan-2008, 03:40 PM
#2
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First of all.. why are you so set on an lsvtec? An ls vtec to make 150wtq isnt the easiest thing to do. A b20vtec would be more ideal to make that power, but if you want 150wtq and 200+ whp its not cheap at all. The machine work you would spend to fit "b20 pistons" in an LS block is way too much, why not just start off with a b20block?
Also.. why NA? If you do have an LS block why not boost?
Also.. why NA? If you do have an LS block why not boost?
10-Jan-2008, 04:30 PM
#4
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10-Jan-2008, 06:20 PM
#5
basically, but not quite. The b20 uses different sleeves than the b18a/b. You can't just take a b18a/b and bore it to 84mm and have a b20, the cylinder walls would be wayyyyyy too thin and bad stuff would happen immediately.
I agree with chris_v2 about just starting with a b20, you'll hit you're goals easier with the b20 compared to the LS.
I agree with chris_v2 about just starting with a b20, you'll hit you're goals easier with the b20 compared to the LS.
10-Jan-2008, 07:34 PM
#6
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I'm set on LSV because I already have the LS... I understand what it takes to do everything I was just curious as to how reliable or... shall I say; worth it. I don't want to boost because this would be my DD and an N/A engine has the potential to beat turboed cars at a certain power. I am in no way putting boosted engines down; I prefer N/A.
10-Jan-2008, 08:20 PM
#7
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you want a na engine around 200whp to beat boosted cars hitting 400whp?...
did i read that right?...
and, what na engine has the potential to beat a boosted car, and at what certain power?...
just curious!
also, for dd...my dd is boosted. quality **** will last.
did i read that right?...
and, what na engine has the potential to beat a boosted car, and at what certain power?...
just curious!
also, for dd...my dd is boosted. quality **** will last.
10-Jan-2008, 08:48 PM
#8
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I'm set on LSV because I already have the LS... I understand what it takes to do everything I was just curious as to how reliable or... shall I say; worth it. I don't want to boost because this would be my DD and an N/A engine has the potential to beat turboed cars at a certain power. I am in no way putting boosted engines down; I prefer N/A.
Anyways, if you want to make 200whp with an LSV its definately do-able, 150wtq is kinda tough. Any clue on how much money you want to invest?
10-Jan-2008, 09:13 PM
#9
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Not 400... there is no way that a 200whp Na car could beat or even remotely keep upto a 400whp car. I've been thinking of boosting. I don't know though... I haven't put much thought into how much I would want to invest. If I do go FI I would build the engine anyway... either way, the engine wouldn't be stock.
10-Jan-2008, 10:17 PM
#11
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n/a ls/vtec built dyno tuned:
On the Dyno 202 whp 131 ft/lbs
video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GABWyj5jH0
video 2: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...arch&plindex=0
Torque numbers up at 150ft/lbs is difficult with ls/vtec
On the Dyno 202 whp 131 ft/lbs
video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GABWyj5jH0
video 2: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...arch&plindex=0
Torque numbers up at 150ft/lbs is difficult with ls/vtec
10-Jan-2008, 10:26 PM
#12
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Thank you for those videos. I would build the engine for assurance. So that I could have something that could do lots if I would plan on doing it in the future. To me, if I were to build it; get it built... I would make it extremely reliable and that way I know exactly what has been done to the engine. You probably all don't agree with me and think that I am a huge noob when it comes to this but I know my fair share. Why not build it and know for a fact that the engine doesn't burn oil and has completely no wear and tear.
10-Jan-2008, 10:36 PM
#13
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Building an engine isn't cheap.
sleeved block for boost around $1k from a machine shop
Now you have to factor in pistons, connection rods, bearings, valves, springs, whatever stage camshaft, crankshaft, cylinder head, Intake manifold, exhaust header, and the list goes on. That's about half of what you need and an est of $3G+
sleeved block for boost around $1k from a machine shop
Now you have to factor in pistons, connection rods, bearings, valves, springs, whatever stage camshaft, crankshaft, cylinder head, Intake manifold, exhaust header, and the list goes on. That's about half of what you need and an est of $3G+
11-Jan-2008, 08:55 AM
#14
the money you'd spend on building a LSvtec for n/a would easily buy all the parts you need to boost the engine and make 300whp and it be completely safe on a stock engine.
I was in your boat dude. I had almost every part i needed to build a LSvtec and use my built b16 head on the LS block. I had RS machines ITR pistons, ARP rod bolts and head studs, ITR water pump, timing belt and oil pump, Golden Eagle LSvtec conversion kit, and my built b16 head (that i spent like $3000 on building it). So in total it would've been like $4500 to build that engine (after all the machine work and new OEM bearings) and my goals were 200-210whp.
BUT then i sold all the parts and boosted my b16 and don't regret it for a minute. Its is also my year round daily driver. Stock engines boosted are fine, you DO NOT need to build the engine to boost it for it to be reliable, that comes more from good tuning and using quality parts and assuring the engine is safe to boost beforehand (good compression, doesn't burn oil, etc etc). I've been daily driving my 11.5:1 CR stage 2 cammed stock block b16 on about 7-8psi since april or may of last year and its not unreliable by any means.
I was in your boat dude. I had almost every part i needed to build a LSvtec and use my built b16 head on the LS block. I had RS machines ITR pistons, ARP rod bolts and head studs, ITR water pump, timing belt and oil pump, Golden Eagle LSvtec conversion kit, and my built b16 head (that i spent like $3000 on building it). So in total it would've been like $4500 to build that engine (after all the machine work and new OEM bearings) and my goals were 200-210whp.
BUT then i sold all the parts and boosted my b16 and don't regret it for a minute. Its is also my year round daily driver. Stock engines boosted are fine, you DO NOT need to build the engine to boost it for it to be reliable, that comes more from good tuning and using quality parts and assuring the engine is safe to boost beforehand (good compression, doesn't burn oil, etc etc). I've been daily driving my 11.5:1 CR stage 2 cammed stock block b16 on about 7-8psi since april or may of last year and its not unreliable by any means.
11-Jan-2008, 10:45 AM
#15
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Thanks everyone. I think I would rather boost the engine now. I know building an engine isn't cheap but that is just what I want to do; to build an engine. If I were to set a goal of $10G, that would let me get just about everything I need. Tuning is the most important part of all and you have all said that already.
Forget N/A... http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/hobtukit1.html
My mind has been made up.
Forget N/A... http://cheapturbo.stores.yahoo.net/hobtukit1.html
My mind has been made up.
Last edited by SloHatch.95; 11-Jan-2008 at 10:54 AM.
11-Jan-2008, 11:46 AM
#16
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zeeman and chris are right...
zeeman built my current engine, and he also tuned up and tuned my last engine and turbo...
it's as reliable as the parts you put in. same with anything! be FI or NA....
the best part about FI, is boost is there when you need it, and not there when you dont.... a good solid tune is key though...
I think your price of 10g would build you one hell of a setup that would crush a lot of cars.....
for 10g, you could do a full internals build plus boost if you did your research right.
just stay away from ebay turbo stuffs. im not totally knocking it - there has been people on tcc and other boards that have had success with that setup...but, with quality comes increased reliability. Since that's one of your concerns, I think you are heading in the right direction.
the turbo kit you posted seems pretty well rounded. at least it's not a "xs power" ebay turbo
the only thing i dont like is the weldless return line
edit: also research your power goals (which probally have changed now with the new direction you are headed), and make sure you get injectors to suit that need....
zeeman built my current engine, and he also tuned up and tuned my last engine and turbo...
it's as reliable as the parts you put in. same with anything! be FI or NA....
the best part about FI, is boost is there when you need it, and not there when you dont.... a good solid tune is key though...
I think your price of 10g would build you one hell of a setup that would crush a lot of cars.....
for 10g, you could do a full internals build plus boost if you did your research right.
just stay away from ebay turbo stuffs. im not totally knocking it - there has been people on tcc and other boards that have had success with that setup...but, with quality comes increased reliability. Since that's one of your concerns, I think you are heading in the right direction.
the turbo kit you posted seems pretty well rounded. at least it's not a "xs power" ebay turbo
the only thing i dont like is the weldless return line
edit: also research your power goals (which probally have changed now with the new direction you are headed), and make sure you get injectors to suit that need....
Last edited by Nicotine; 11-Jan-2008 at 11:55 AM.
11-Jan-2008, 01:53 PM
#17
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Thanks for the comments. I still want to do the LSV but I want to go the turbo route. I'm a little lost though. Would I be able to get the Wiseco pistons made for just an LS for the LSV? What I'm asking is how much with compression boost and also the clearance issues. I have decided on Skunk 2 Stage 2 Turbo cams and I am worried that if the lift is too big that it might hit the piston. I'm sure I could just get a thicker headgasket to solve the problem but i'd like to hear it from someone with more knowledge than myself, not saying I don't know anything but I like security. My goal with a turbocharged engine would be to have around 350whp and possibly 250ish wtrq. I don't mean to sound like a person that just say's they will do something and they don't. I really want to do this. I just want to do it right the first time before having to do it all over again.
11-Jan-2008, 03:05 PM
#18
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zeeman/chris/brian should chime in soon with sme good info :P
with my b16 build, we dropped the compression JUST a touch.... most recommend slightly lower compression when doing boost - but others like zeeman are running higher compression over stock (not by much, but some), and have no issues...
as for cams. i kept the b series cams in. didnt make any changes.....
with my b16 build, we dropped the compression JUST a touch.... most recommend slightly lower compression when doing boost - but others like zeeman are running higher compression over stock (not by much, but some), and have no issues...
as for cams. i kept the b series cams in. didnt make any changes.....
11-Jan-2008, 04:24 PM
#20
for you're goals i'd do 10:1 CR. Aftermarket pistons typically have pretty deep valve reliefs, but if you're worried you'll have to clay the engine to make sure you have enough clearance.
Use a good turbo manifold, full race manifolds are nice IMO, and there are plenty of local fab guys that can make you a nice manifold. Pick a turbo for you're goal of 350whp i'd use something rated for 400whp, just so you're not runing the turbo maxxed out. What i'm saying is, don't use a GT40R or SC61 b/c they're too big and meant for much higher WHP setups.
With 350whp i wouldn't be too worried about running aftermarket cams, there are other parts of your setup that need some attention. Such as you're clutch, you'll need a clutch that can handle that much power, using an open-differential (non-lsd tranny) will not be fun at that power level either. You're brakes will need to be up to par as well, little stock DX brakes won't be good enough.
10G's will build you an engine and boost it....but plan and spend your money wisely. You don't need to get your engine sleeved and spend $1000-2000 on that, you don't need crazy expensive cams/valve train, springs/retainers yes if you want, but at 350whp i wouldn't be too worried. You will want a 3" exhaust and 3" cat and 3" downpipe, you will need at least 550cc injectors (i'd run bigger to be safe, buying injectors twice sucks if you decide later that you want more than 350whp) you will need a walbro 255lph fuel pump and some sort of engine management (obd1 chipped ecu, AEM EMS, whatever you want, but i'd just get a crome tune/convert to obd1 if you need to).
Use a good turbo manifold, full race manifolds are nice IMO, and there are plenty of local fab guys that can make you a nice manifold. Pick a turbo for you're goal of 350whp i'd use something rated for 400whp, just so you're not runing the turbo maxxed out. What i'm saying is, don't use a GT40R or SC61 b/c they're too big and meant for much higher WHP setups.
With 350whp i wouldn't be too worried about running aftermarket cams, there are other parts of your setup that need some attention. Such as you're clutch, you'll need a clutch that can handle that much power, using an open-differential (non-lsd tranny) will not be fun at that power level either. You're brakes will need to be up to par as well, little stock DX brakes won't be good enough.
10G's will build you an engine and boost it....but plan and spend your money wisely. You don't need to get your engine sleeved and spend $1000-2000 on that, you don't need crazy expensive cams/valve train, springs/retainers yes if you want, but at 350whp i wouldn't be too worried. You will want a 3" exhaust and 3" cat and 3" downpipe, you will need at least 550cc injectors (i'd run bigger to be safe, buying injectors twice sucks if you decide later that you want more than 350whp) you will need a walbro 255lph fuel pump and some sort of engine management (obd1 chipped ecu, AEM EMS, whatever you want, but i'd just get a crome tune/convert to obd1 if you need to).
