Slvr-Bullet

Hello All,

I went and got my e-test done today and failed the NO (1060 reading). Everything else was way below their limits.

The shop guy said it might be the EGR valve but I don't think '96 civic standard hatches have one.

I did have a bad secondary O2 sensor (CEL) and got it changed with a used one at a shop. Didn't want to pay the ridiculous dealership price (~$200).

Sometimes when I gun it on the highway I'll get the smell of rotten eggs. Mind you it only happens rarely (the smell). So I'm not sure if the cat is bad.

Any help/suggestions is appreciated. Need to pass this POS

Dangles

I also have a question, I don't have the heater o2 sensor installed. I just thought they read the values coming out of the exhaust. Is that true?

Slvr-Bullet

Also some more info. Just dug up a receipt for my cat which I had changed last year as of the 16th. Can a cat go bad that fast? Had it done at Zoro in Mississauga.

Had the whole dizzy replaced early this year due to electrical probs. Can the timing be off?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

well check the timing with a light... very advanced timing can cause high EGT which is the cause of high NOx emissions. you're correct, I'm pretty sure there is no EGR valve on our cars.

rotten egg smell does have something to do with the cat, but as I recall it's sulfur oxides that create the smell. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the cat being bad just yet.

have you checked that the replacement O2 sensor is giving the correct readings? an o2 sensor reading high could cause a lean condition that would increase EGTs and increase NOx emissions.

do you still have the pencil sharpner on there? if so, and if I recall correctly, is uses a FMU to increase fuel pressure... a broken vacuum line to the FMU or a faulty FMU could deliver stock fuel maps again causing a lean burn.

pull your spark plugs and check their condition, take pics and post them for someone to read the plugs. check your PCV valve also.

slowandfurious

My 96 civic has a egr valve which should be located on the intake manifold and costs about $6 at CT. Of course if you do not have your secondary O2 sensor on the car, your computer will be throwing codes, and probibly running is safe mode which would be adding extra fuel and retarding timing. Lastly if you have a high flow cat with a cat back type system, your secondary O2 (if you had)might need the O2 simulator to read properly. I cant imagine a cat going after 1 year, and Zoro's is a well know shop. Get the things your concerned about fixed and try again. The wroten eggs could be coolent burning, as thats what it smells like when entering the motor threw a bad seal of some typ,e or if the rad is just slightly leaking. Keep an eye on the coolent level just to make sure.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

i don't see an EGR valve on a D16Y7. I also don't remember it on my manifold swap.

Draw an arrow on one of these pics and show us where it is. Cuz it sounds like you're talkin PCV valve, not EGR for $6

Slvr-Bullet

Thanks B.
Don't have the sharpener on there anymore. Basically everything is stock. I think I have colder plugs in there from when I had the SC and still have the walbro fuel pump in there too.

How do I check if the O2 is reading properly?

Don't know when the last time I changed the PCV valve.

Last e-test all the other requirements were well below the limit except for NOx 575/576.

slowandfurious

B your right and i'm sorry to everyone as i was thinking of the PCV valve. I beleive there is a EGR valve still as i remember seeing one on the car somewhere. It also could have been on a older civic at the junkers so untill i see my civic i cant confirm for sure. Here is a link to one and i know i've seen it before

PartsTrain.com - Hard to Find Auto Parts and Truck Parts - Egr Valve - 1996 Honda Civic EGR Valve

I honestly dont have the scanner which can read a O2 so i've never checked myself. Some scanners can give you a value if the O2 is working. Why did you change the cat? Is it a aftermarket replacement? How long ago did you take off the charger?

hey man just found this check it out might help.

http://www.2carpros.com/forum/1999-h...-vt184095.html

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

hey no prob... thanks for the link as well. thing is that's for the Honda Civic HX (and possibly the KL5MT builds - California Emissions). the charger has been off for roughly 4 years or so if he took it out at the time i got the J&S Safeguard from him.

WRT to the plugs, colder plugs should help reduce NOX emissions, not elevate them. nevertheless I'd pull them and replace w/ standard heat range - not just for the range but also b/c they're prolly due to be replaced anyways.

O2 readings can be viewed and logged on a laptop connected via a scanner to the OBD port. or just a handheld scanner with viewing capability. my buddy in windsor has one, I do not... so i can't help out.

the walbro shouldn't be a problem unless there is a kink or restriction in the return line that's preventing fuel from returning to the tank properly. but don't you find the noisy pump annoying anyways? but excessive fuel pressure would cause carbon emissions to be high as well (and would cause stalling and loss of power as well). this isn't the case for you.

reason I asked about the PCV valve is if it's open all the time it could be sucking in oil vapors, reducing the effective octane rating of gasoline being burned, perhaps causing higher EGTs.

NOx was high on your last test, and has been increasing despite the cat change last year. this can also indicate excessive buildup in the combustion chamber as well but it's so hard to believe given the car's history and your driving style.

overall my approach would be this. pull the plugs and read them (or post pics). if there is nothing obvious, take it in for diagnostics with your past reciepts (for the cat and all that)... they will give you an estimate, if the estimate exceeds some amount (I think it's like $400-500), you'll get a conditional pass for the next two years.

my old saturn wagon which my bro drives now has been battling high NOx for the past 6 years... it runs so effing mint yet suffers from bad NOx. I never could figure it out (despite a slew of new parts what were bad and needed replacing anyways, including the EGR valve and solenoid).

slowandfurious

last year i had this problem after i got my catback, i tried plugs, distributor cap rotor, cleaning out the tb, pcv valve as well. Also i was high on NOX as my reading. I wounder if the secondary O2 cannot pickup a prober reading to to the high flow cat? I never tried the simulator but i really belive that the problem is there as the car barley gets driven at all. It to has a d16y7 motor with no mods. I passed emissions on my 5th time ideling the car for almost a hour and using high octain with mythel hydrate.
i might try seafoam this year as i've heard alot of good things about it but my lesson was that dont just buy new parts without actually knowing what the problem is.

My G/F has a saturn as well and it failed emissions i replaced everything including crank sensor, all the tb sensors and tb, wires ect. It was really bad, turned out cylinders 2+3 are gone. She got a temp pass cause the mech. wrote that the car need a new engine and would go over the $500 limit. To this day it still drives and i still hope it get stolen

Slvr-Bullet

Yup

I bought two sets a while back so the second set was just put in like 2 weeks ago.

Damn

Nope

Correct. 0.11/0.42

Does the PCV valve function the same way as an EGR valve? I just picked up a new one from CT so I'm just going to replace it. Would this little thing cause high NOx?

Well when I did have the SC I was always running rich (black smoke when I gunned it). So there is a possibility there's a lot of carbon build-up in the chambers. Is there any way to clean it out?

wb123

I had the same problem

Slvr-Bullet

What did you do to fix it and pass the test?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

he hasn't passed... he's got a thread going here as well, but he just bought it w/ 300K, so there is no known history to go by.

PCV valve does not function like an EGR. PCV takes blowby from combustion which ends up in the crankcase and vents it back up through the block into the intake manifold to get burned. this deposits oil vapors and combustion gasses and introduces them into the fresh air coming into the intake manifold.

An EGR valve on the other hand takes exhaust gasses and at prescribed times (controlled by the ECU on modern cars) and introduces them back into the combustion process in order to lower EGTs (and thus NOx). It's sort of a fix-it system for poorly designed engines that can't make 'normal' power levels with just proper tuning.

Ok so the colder plugs you've been running have been contributing to your carbon fouling problem... they've produced a slower, less efficient flame front which at normal driving is ok, but at high rpm or WOT (high load), it would contribute to carbon buildup. You can attempt to soak the cylinders with Seafoam overnight and then also put Seafoam in the tank to try to flush out the crap that's in there. I don't know how well this works as I didn't take the head off after I did the procedure, but it's supposed to help. But honestly, if you're not selling the car then just get a conditional pass, change to a standard range plug, and run Seafoam in the tank for the next 2 years every 4th fill-up, and see if it makes a difference for the next etest. taking out these deposits (if they are in fact the problem) will take time. You can have someone scope the cylinders with a camera to see if it is carbon buildup, but that'll require finding someone with a cyl scope.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

right, so coles notes, PCV valve - necessary to capture emissions inside engine, EGR valve not necessary for all engines but used to bring EGTs down to reduce tailpipe emissions.

Slvr-Bullet

Passed...woohoo

2000 civic-B20

What did you change to make it pass

Slvr-Bullet

Shop adjusted timing and decarbonized engine. With what I don't know.

Initial NOx reading was 1060. Retest got 535

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

great stuff. remember to put the right heat range plugs in there to prevent further carbon fouling of the combustion chambers.

black_and_orange

the only D16 motor on the EK civics with an EGR valve is the D16Y5 with CVT just looked it up in the "HAYENS" book !!