shlammed

Let me hear your argument against the "science" bud.Please, amuse me.

szuberi

+1

science can not prove everything which confirms the existence of a higher power. i find that alot of atheists disbelieve in God just for the sake of it...they dont have answers to a whole lot of questions about events that happen everyday without any scientific explanation....their best answer is...cuz its nature and thats the way its supposed to happen but they fail to disprove the fact that there is a force behind it all that makes it happen.

walking down the street you see a building....it just didnt evolve there...it was made by people using materials and what not. so if a small little structure like that can not come into being without being made by someone...how can this whole universe can.

bruce fee

How's this for copying and pasting something under the guise of science that no one will read? -it's about reptilian vampire space aliens that control humanity through religion, the bush family, and the british royal family.

CROSSROADS OR CROSSWORLDS?

[The above image is a depiction of one of the two entrance sites to the mysterious and massive "Granite Mountain" facility on the northern slope of Little Cottonwood Canyon, southeast of Salt Lake City, Utah]
The following are reports, in no particular order, concerning underground anomalies below the "Crossroads Plaza" and surrounding areas of Salt Lake City, Utah. I will only use initials to protect the names of some of my sources. Other sources were one time encounters with people who I struck up conversations with and who I never got to know on a personal level. It is interesting though how many sources have indicated that there is "something" going on "underground" below the Salt Lake City area... For those who believe in "abduction" experiences, I was born and raised in the Salt Lake Valley, which might explain the MANY strange and unusual "dreams" I have had of underground alien facilities, and I have had confirmations that indeed I am an "abductee", and implanted to boot, and this involved some type of joint CIA/Alien interaction, and needless to say this interference and manipulation in my life has nearly ruined me psychologically and emotionally and limited my ability to succeed in more ways than one. So as for my alien "FRIENDS" below who felt as if they had to play god and RUIN my life more than they will ever know, here's a little "present" for you... basically EVERYTHING I know about the entrances to *your* underground hide-outs in this particular part of the country FOR THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD TO SEE!!! So now we CAN ALL be "friends"...
So it begins...
-- I.D. is a woman who I've met a few times. She told me that her son R., at the time a night security worker at the Crossroads Plaza, was hired there by her son-in-law P. On one occasion P. had to respond to a bomb threat that was called in. All very routine. Normally they did not go down into the lower sub-basements of the Mall because it was "discouraged" by their superiors. But this time they had to go down in order to check for possible bombs, although P. had heard rumors about the "tunnels" and no doubt wanted to use this as an "excuse" to check them out. P. and R. went through a particular door, and down some flights of stairs to THE THIRD sub-basement level, below the lower-most level of the mall itself. They followed a long hall northward and this ended with two large and very ancient looking [carved?] wooden doors, both of which were locked. Also in this same hallway there was another door. They did not know if it was locked, since from underneath the door an eerie greenish glow emanated. Something about the glow really freaked them out, they were terrified, but rationalized that the glow "must have come" from a green "exit sign" behind the door.
-- R., after this incident, went back to an ally near the mall with a friend of his, where they parked their pick-up truck. They tied a chain to a manhole cover and pulled it up with the truck, then went down and through a tunnel, at one point navigating over a stream of water that cascaded downwards, and finally came to a crawlway that emerged in a 10x10 foot square concrete room. In the floor of the room was a metallic "trap" door that could only be opened from above, and below this was a similar concrete room with a similar metallic trap door with a metal ladder running down the wall, and yet another below that. The third room [if I recall correctly] contained a horizontal tunnel passage that led to a door through which they spied a large 200-300 feet long underground chamber in which they saw two men in suits who were pacing back and forth and carrying uzi machine guns. They of course decided not to try and enter the room, and instead went back to the concrete chamber and discovered two more below that one. The bottom chamber connected to a southwardly running [they guessed] tunnel that led to a large cavern or catacomb in which they found a seemingly bottomless shaft, a large tunnel strung with lights and leading south[?] which was "large enough for a semi" to drive through, and a manhole with the letters "H.Z." engraved on the lid. They also saw strange human-sized footprints in the dust however these prints had only THREE TOES! They went back topside and left the "trap doors" opened/unlocked. A few days later R. heard that a Hispanic woman who did custodial work at night in the mall quit her job after she swore that a "demon" had approached her while she was working, hissed at her, and then hobbled down into another part of the mall. R. was actually afraid that HE had inadvertently allowed some kind of monster out of the tunnels by leaving the trap doors open. He later told a worker at Utah Power & Light about it, and the worker responded that "they" wondered who had left those trap doors open, apparently the worker having access to the underground tunnels... which might relate to the claim made by R. that the big "semi" tunnel was strung with lights as far as he could see. R. was very cautious about talking about this stuff, since he had apparently been discouraged from talking about it by "others", and much of what he described sounds a lot like the scenario going on out at the Dugway Utah / Area51 Nevada underground facilities. However he confided all of this to his mother I., who in turn told me about it so long as I did not use their names, being aware of my own personal interest in the subject. R. stated that UP&L "owns" many of these tunnel entrances. The question is, who "owns" UP&L?
-- R.'s brother-in-law, P., who helped R. get on as a security officer at the Crossroads Plaza, was told of the tunnels shortly after he himself was first hired on. P. expressed an interest in exploring the tunnels, but was told by a fellow worker that this would not be advisable as he might have a run-in with the "lizard men" [this was the exact phrase used by the worker, I was assured] and not return.
-- R.W., another man who I've met a few times in Salt Lake City, is a total UFO buff, and a former topographical analyst. He showed me several topo maps of the Nevada desert area where his trained eye could locate what he was convinced openings to underground bases... i.e. roads that "ended" at cliffs or near "mines", or circular symbols which he stated indicated entrances to hangers for "antigravity" craft, etc. He had worked at the Dugway base and told of the "automated humans" who worked out there [others have reported military personnel at Dugway who were reportedly seen to transform temporarily from humans to reptilian humanoids and back again]. Anyway, his interest is no doubt partly the result of his own strange life experiences, and he claims to have had run-ins with men-in-place type agents. Anyway, R.W. told me that several years ago he was in the Crossroads plaza while construction workers were excavating the lowest section, which would eventually become the Crossroads Cinemas. The area was cordoned off by construction tape, however R.W. nevertheless went into the work zone and found himself staring down into a dark shaft. A worker approached him and angrily told him that the area was off limits. R.W. tried to calm him down by striking up a conversation with him about the shaft, at which the worker eventually admitted that they had broken into the tunnel during excavations the previous week, and that one of their crew went down to explore it. However that was a few days ago, the worker said, and he had not returned.
-- R.W. also stated that several years ago there was an underground restroom facility entered via a stairwell on the street corner just across the street and north of the NE corner of Crossroads plaza. It is now filled in, however back them R.W. went down there and saw a custodial room door that was partially open. So he walked in, being the ever curious type, and found still another door at the back of the custodial room which led into a tunnel beneath the street. This tunnel split into an east-running tunnel and a south-running tunnel, but both of these were gated and locked. He could hear the faint hum and vibration of traffic above. When he emerged from the tunnel he ran into a custodial worker who chastised him, saying that the custodial room was off limits.
-- Another young man, T.J., told me how he had struck up a conversation with a man on a bus while traveling between states. The subject somehow turned to the Utah underground systems, and the man told T.J. of an incident where a worker who was helping to construct the Crossroads Cinemas stumbled into a tunnel, followed it for a considerable distance until he came face to face with a "serpent" or "lizard" man which tried to attack or capture him. The worker was totally freaked, and managed to escape back to the surface and made sure that everyone of his friends he ran into knew about what he saw "down there". That particular story made quite the rounds and is still considered by many to be a "folk legend" in the area. But this man who told T.J. the story said it was true. Anyway, the bus passenger continued by stating that the "Feds" came in and sealed off the tunnel. There is a LARGE Federal building just a couple blocks south of there. Gee, I wonder if "they" know about these tunnels?
-- While traveling on the UTA [Utah Transit Authority] bus system, I happened to initiate a conversation with a young man who claimed to be one of the top "Dungeon-Masters" in the Dungeon & Dragons role-playing circuit, who had played some of the best Dungeon Masters in the world at some of the large D&D conventions. I hinted that one man who worked in some "catacombs" below Salt Lake City had told me that there are over 30 miles of tunnels beneath the city, at which the "Dungeon-Master" stated that it was more like over a hundred miles of tunnels. I asked where he'd heard that, and he told me of a D&D group in Salt Lake City who had found a tunnel in the foothills to the east. They decided to explore and map the maze, and stop and "play the game" at intervals, considering it the perfect environment to blend their Dungeon & Dragons fantasies with reality [little did they know...]. Anyway they spent a few days exploring and playing, although I was not told if they stayed down there three days or came back out each night and re-navigated their mapped out path each morning. Eventually after a few days they found themselves suddenly in some large underground chambers beneath a large religious edifice of a major neo-masonic religious organization based in Salt Lake City. We'll just leave it at that. They were apprehended and arrested for "trespassing", apparently having failed to see the "no trespassing" signs in the tunnels below [**he said, sarcastically**] and became the brunt of heavy intimidation by a certain "police department" which was staffed with employees who were members of a certain "religious organization" [again, I'll just leave it at that].
-- There are rumors that these tunnels also connect to the sub-basement of the masonic lodge in the same city. Rumor has it that these tunnels connect to huge caverns below the mountains to the east where high masonic initiates within various religious, political, military and economic organizations are funneling trillions of dollars of OUR tax monies to construct huge underground cities and bases where these elitist initiates plan to hide-out [common citizens not included, of course] in the event of a national emergency or disaster, and who have prepared massive underground warehouses of food and supplies with the hopes of surviving such a contingency. According to former Dulce base security officer Thomas Edwin Castello, there are two major underground connections between the Dulce and Area51 bases, Page Arizona and Salt Lake City Utah [Dugway Proving Ground, Fort Douglas, Hill Air Force Base, etc.]. So, read between the lines... Also hints of much "alien" activity and also of "fascist" elements within the military-industrial complex as having some connection with this underground domain.
-- There are also reports of underground chambers that have been penetrated by construction workers in the Trolley Square mall to the SE of Crossroads [connecting with Crossroads underneath via the two south-running tunnels mentioned above?]. These tunnels or catacombs were nicknamed the "grease pits". Also, another friend of mine, K.S., reported an "abduction" experience involving huge underground chambers entered via a building just west of the Sugarhouse Mall area, near an elongated triangular "island" near a street intersection. She was also told by a man that he had been abducted and during the abduction some "aliens" had removed and then re-attached his leg! He claimed to have been abducted to an underground facility below the Sugarhouse district, not far from the Mall. This reminds me of TWO separate people who have both made the otherwise outlandish claim that reptilian humanoids who live and work in our society [infiltrators masquerading in human disguise] do a lot of their shopping at one particular mall. J. from California told me this although could not add many further details, and K.S. also told me that she had encountered three of these "chameleons" in a NORDSTROM store in Salt Lake City. Is the invasion of our surface domain beginning? Who knows... but at least two men in the past [around the 1940's - '50's] warned of an invasion -- or infiltration? -- of our surface world by a malevolent race of beings who came from deep beneath the earth. These were oceanographer William Beebee and machinist Richard Shaver.
-- Some stories were told to me, however I do not recall by whom. one such account involved a man who worked in some of the tunnels under Salt Lake City. One day he put his arm on a wall and his arm went THROUGH the wall. He almost had a nervous breakdown. Later he tried the same thing on the same section of wall, but this time the wall was "solid". Another involved a construction crew who were digging a foundation to a building in the eastern foothills, when they stuck what appeared to be the cement lining of an underground tunnel. They tried to find out what it was and an "expert" came out and told them that they were digging in the wrong place [they weren't, according to the survey], and although he seemed to know what the strange underground structure was all about, he was extremely evasive, rude and secretive when asked about it.
-- R.W. told me that he once traveled with a friend of his up into the foothills behind Salt Lake City [in this area is City Creek canyon, where another man I know was abducted by greenish skinned, reptilian types with large dark eyes... and following the abduction his life which was going very well fell apart and he, D., became very suicidal in fact... just one of the many horror stories of "intervention" in peoples lives by beings who have absolutely no right to "interfere"]. Up in these foothills R.W. and a friend of his came to an area called "the Pots" where they used to mix asphalt for the roads. Behind this area was a mine and/or a cave which they explored. Inside they were surprised to see an orange-colored reptilian humanoid slinking around a large outcropping of rock. They were so terrified that R.W. would not even take me near the place at my request. His fear seemed genuine and sincere even as he told me this.
_______
The following unusual letter was sent to Paul Shockley, of the C.A.C. organization, and was written by a man who wishes to be identified only as J.R.:
"...You most likely have heard of the Mormon Church, LDS, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, here in Utah, of which they control the total state in all fields and phases of human endeavors (note: The LDS church is actually a neo Masonic lodge after having been infiltrated AS HAVE MOST MAINLINE DENOMINATIONS IN THE WORLD by the Scottish Rite of Masonry, which was created out of the so-called "Rite of Perfection" at the Jesuit -- or the so-called "Society of Jesus" -- college in Clermont France, for the sole purpose of expanding Roman religio-eco-political imperialism as is evidenced by the fact that Constantine, the last official Roman Emperor, also happened to be the first "Pontiff" of the Roman church. In the case of the LDS church it was, according to Klaus Hanson's QUEST FOR EMPIRE, a man by the name of John C. Bennett who insinuated himself into the confidence of the churches founder Joseph Smith, and who first introduced Masonic Illuminism into the church as part of Rome's effort to draw ALL denominations ultimately under its control, bringing with him several level 33 Scottish Rite Masons who "feigned" conversion to the church - Branton). They have built temples in 100 countries. The missionaries in all these countries, including the USA, work with the CIA.
"As the missionaries can get into countries where the CIA cannot, they collect information on the people and everything of any and all nature, the countries' government and all their activities. All this world-wide information is shared with the CIA and it is fed into three of the largest computers in the world, church-owned, here in Salt Lake City (these reportedly fill the entire top 2 or 3 floor-levels of the "Church Office Building" in Salt Lake City - Branton). This church is one of the most powerful and rich organizations in the world today. It has one of the largest and secret police force[s] in the world. I have collected this kind of information for 45 years.
"The above is not all they are into. A high official of this church was recently kicked out of the church as he got too snoopy and asked too many questions. He came to me a few months ago and told me what happened. He said that HIS LIFE HAD BEEN THREATENED if he told anyone of what he had found out. So he told me that if anything happened to him, to release the information he gave me. THIS INFORMATION CONCERNS A GIANT CAVERN BENEATH SALT LAKE CITY AND THE WASATCH MOUNTAIN RANGE. IT GOES NORTH TO IDAHO AND SOUTH CLEAR DOWN PAST THE ARIZONA LINE, WITH OFFSHOOTS WEST INTO NEVADA AND EAST INTO COLORADO.
"This cavern has been common knowledge for over 120 years. Many cases over the years [have] appeared in the newspapers of people and groups of people going into the cavern, but never coming out. Several [who] did find their way out, were hopelessly insane. At least that's what the newspaper said about them.

bruce fee

"At present the Archaeological Dept. of Utah are down in southeastern Utah looking for a certain entrance into this cavern, that [a] fellow by the name of John Brewer of Manti, Utah, discovered around 30 years ago (around 1960 - Branton). He brought out of the cavern quite a few ancient plates of an unknown language. Some of the plates were gold, some silver, brass, copper and clay. He also saw many strange things he won't talk about, such as what he thought were weapons of crystal.
"His son was TORTURED AND KILLED by some unknown person or persons trying to force the secrets out of him. The church wanted the plates in the worst way - they still do.
"The information I was given by this former member of the Church IS VERY CLOSE TO BEING THE SAME AS [the information that has surfaced concerning] DULCE, NEW MEXICO. Like he told me, "After all, where on earth would be a better contact point for aliens than Utah, with thousands of miles of deserts and places not even on the present day maps. Plus a large and powerful organization with hospitals, schools and universities where aliens could undergo physical changes, educated in our languages and customs, using research labs, some of the best in the United States. A lot of GENETIC EXPERIMENTS AND RESEARCH is also going on here in different laboratories.
"THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN AND ADULTS HAVE VANISHED WITHOUT A TRACE OF MOST OF THEM, HERE IN UTAH. The fellow who is giving me this information also mentioned that for years now, the Church has been working on a vault-like repository in the mountains behind Salt Lake [East], PART OF THE UPPER CAVERN, to put all records, secret documents, and other valuables for safe keeping (This is the aforementioned Vault in Granite Mountain, on the north slope of Little Cottonwood Canyon - Branton). He said for over a period of time he helped on this detail. SEVERAL TIMES HE SAID HE SPOTTED SEVERAL SMALL HUMANOIDS WITH EXTRA-LARGE EYES WATCHING THEM FROM A DISTANCE.
"He said THERE WAS A LOT OF BUILDING GOING ON IN THE LOWER PORTION OF THE CAVERN. He heard motors, dynamos, the high whine of generators and voices. All this he said has been going on for over 15 years that he knew of (or previous to 1975 - Branton). He said his curiosity got the best of him one day, he slipped away from the work gang he was in and went down to a lower part of the cavern. He came to some BUILDINGS WITH LOTS OF ROOMS. THERE WAS A LOT OF BUILDING AND OTHER ACTIVITY GOING ON. THERE WERE MANY MEN AND WOMEN WORKING ON WORK BENCHES WITH COMPUTERS, AND BUILDING ELECTRONIC UNITS OF SOME KIND. AMONG THESE WORKERS WERE MORE OF THESE SMALL HUMANOIDS WITH BIG BLACK EYES. When he started back, two security officers caught him and escorted him back to the repository vault, where they reported his actions and wanderings into the off-limits area, to his superiors. They in turn put him on a truck and sent him back to town. He was warned to keep his mouth shut about what he saw. They told him what was going on down there was a U.S. government operation and was TOP SECRET.
"If he talked about [what was going on underground] to any one, he would get 20 years in a federal prison or WORSE. He kept asking questions to different members he thought were friends. Someone reported him. In turn he was apostated from the Church, WITH A DEATH THREAT.
"This is the 3rd time in the last 20 years I have heard about this activity, from different friends of mine who are members of this church. I didn't pay too much attention to it until I received the info [on] Dulce, New Mexico... I think its high time to PUT THIS INFO OUT TO THE PUBLIC. Most people are so BRAINWASHED by the church here, and the television, that most people won't believe any of it anyway. But I believe there are people in this land of ours who will believe. Those are the ones who need all the information of this nature they can receive. At least they will be aware of the existence of the situation and won't be so easily trapped. They in turn can help others...
Sincerely, J.R."
_______
On pp. 1136-1137 of Raymond A. Palmer's 'HIDDEN WORLD' publication for Summer, 1962, we read the following account from a reader who chose to remain anonymous. He did not mention exactly where this took place, but due to the remarkable parallels between his experience and my own, I would suggest that it took place in one of the western states... however this is only supposition:
"Dear Ray:
"This happened about 12 or 13 years ago. I was in my late teens, I think, but perhaps the time is not as important as the incident.
"In the late night hours I awoke, got out of bed, walked out of the house and was met by a group of men (?) who drove me out into the country to an old farmhouse. I don't know the location any more than the people involved; maybe I was drugged, I don't know. At the farmhouse we went immediately to the potato cellar and through a trapdoor in the floor down a long inclining tunnel. We arrived into a room, fantastically decorated, bizarre, like Hades - how can I describe it? It was of good size; and others were present. Some one asked: 'Is he ready?' and the answer: 'Yes, he is.' Two 'others' - one on each side of me escorted me into a room? Tunnel? (again beyond my description) the worm, or whoever or whatever he or it was, was huge, long, round, knobby. An immense head and mouth (which swayed back and forth) spoke to me. I don't remember what it said or my answer, but one of them put a syringe into it, and then into me! I swear the language spoken by them and myself was not English, but somehow I seemed to know, yet but not know. After some kind of warning and benediction from this being I was escorted out. Once again the car, the return trip, and home in bed. Since that time I have once in awhile visited the caves quite unhindered... in dreams and the like (since 'suppressed' memories of experiences with UFO's, etc. often surface in 'dreams' or impressions, could these be actual memories of other visits to the nether regions which were suppressed from his memory? There is also the small chance that ray-induced visions or even 'astral' interaction might be involved as well - Branton). I can only comment that the knowledge of, and use of the mechs, the architecture, the philosophies in the pictures (or whatever they are), would enable man to live like gods in comparison to how they now live. However the areas of horror beyond comprehension would have to be removed before this can be done.
(Note: Is he referring to the so-called super-human abilities brought about through the manipulation of powerful electromagnetic occult technologies? We must remind the reader that 'power' has NOTHING to do with righteousness nor benevolence, or as the old saying goes: 'Might does not make right!' Such abilities to manipulate the forces of nature via occult-technologies, such as those which were developed and utilized by the ante-deluvians -- which by the way IN PART may have played a role in their destruction -- and which is now being used by many of the inhabitants of these 'cavern' regions, could be extremely destructive if placed in the wrong hands - Branton).
"An interesting sequel to this (dream or reality?) is that I have prayed, hard, that this wouldn't affect my life. I believe in some ways it hasn't, but my wife feels that something, as I also have felt, is not allowing me to live as I want to. Of course I want to know, was it dream or reality? (Name deleted by request)."

_______
The following letter appeared in the July, 1964 issue of 'SEARCH' Magazine, and was written by a Mr. Ervin M. Scott of (at the time) 536 12th St., Denver, Colorado:
"Dear Ray:
"Congratulations on another excellent issue of 'SEARCH' Magazine.
"I was especially interested in your article, 'Faces in Your Dreams.'
"Having had many strange, puzzling dreams over the last few years, I have become quite interested in any clues that might point towards origin and cause of dreams. I recognize a good many as probably having the subconscious as the source. However, there is an occasional dream, that is so vivid and unusual that it causes one to wonder.
"I have no connection one way or the other, on the Shaver Mystery, but, I will briefly describe two dreams that are interesting in relation to that subject.
"On Nov. 30, 1963 while in a light sleep I heard a woman's voice coming as if from a distance and she spoke urgently as follows: 'This is from a stolen farm beneath the Salt Lake flats in Utah. (I was living in Wichita, Kansas at the time.) There was a woman abducted almost three weeks ago in Boston, Mass. and taken underground. Reports indicate that an abbey in North section of the city is being used and that cellars underneath the abbey connect with tunnels leading up from caverns below. This is a continuation of the Evil one's War against Mankind.'
"Another voice broke in, 'Don't believe her. Don't you see this is a lie - a trick? (Then, warningly) Keep quiet about this.'
"I have never been in Utah nor have had no thoughts about or desire to visit, so if this was caused by subconscious, it is certainly puzzling, as is the reference to 'a stolen farm'..."
Now are we beginning to see a pattern forming here, especially in regards to references made above about a HUGE cavern-system that stretches below Utah and parts of surrounding states? Remember, this whole area is literally SURROUNDED by underground facilities: Mercury Nevada [west], Burley Idaho [north], Creed Colorado [east], Dulce New Mexico [south east], Page Arizona [south], the Black Mountains near the Arizona/Nevada border [south west], and so on. In fact, these CAVERNS may be the KEY to the entire alien operations within the western United States...

bruce fee

was it peer reviewed and replicated?

there is nothing that Science cannot explain.

there is a lot that humanity cannot explain.

We have limitations.

bruce fee

+3485

so how do you know it was your god? maybe a god with 45 arms, 6 penises, and a taste for cannibalism was our creator.

regardless if the 'intelligent design' claim is ridiculous or not, that still doesn't mean that the designed also has a creator.

You come across a stopwatch on the beach. chances of the stopwatch naturally forming are essentially zero. So you say that the stopwatch had to have a creator.

This does not mean that the creator was the designer, it does not mean that the creator/designer even enjoy their work, that they are omnipotent, nor that they are nice people.

now, if i bet you that i can roll a dice, and the following patten will emerge 10,000,000 million times in a row, 3-4-6-1-3-1-6-6-8, what are the chances of that occuring? essentially zero, but if I have have all of eternity, eventually it will happen.

these are examples to illustrate flaws in your arguments against reality. I'm not saying I would be immortal and have a dice in my hand, nor am I saying wasaga beach has a solid brass stopwatch with crystal cover, and aluminum hands that formed naturally on the beach.

for guys who keep saying i can't change their beliefs, i never have tried.

i'm just throwing a ball, i'm not asking you to fetch it.

shlammed

lolI'm done with this thread.

szuberi

your arguments are baseless and weak as always bruce..lol you can not prove the lack of existence of a higher power. you talk like that old retard guy from the SAW II movie..haha

bruce fee

cause you can't explain the science of superman flying?

pathetic.

bruce fee

you sometimes talk like that retard who blew himself up over a cartoon in a newspaper.

szuberi

haha..another weak response

bruce fee

god willing, you'll get more.

ha! ha!

"to tell the truth, i am left handed as well." said the dread pirate roberts.

ForSale

I'm not judging him, lay off the anger, its a generic truth, if you don't belive in something it won't come true.

and to quote on what you just said, im sure he was treating me the same, way he making threads about God, wtf do you expect, if you look at it from a perspective me and others here have been very lieniant towards what he's saying, so get a grip.

either way i don't judge him, i feel sorry for him.


exactly.

HEY BRUCE!!!!, this is why you should study all the religions of the world and some spiritual cultural practices and add that to your science to understand more.

The DRACONIANS you talk about are JINS!!! they can change form appear or disappear at will, they are strictly told by God not to appear infront of humans in their true form ones who do are breaking the laws.

the word SEVEN heavens is actually SEVERAL heavens like earth, once you understand you can make sense of it all slowly, The DRACONIANS or JINS travel to the end of the universe to see what God plans for the future.

what is HEAVEN, the sky right whats after sky SPACE!!! these HEAVENS are in space, they may be in a different frequency with band i.e in another dimention.

these draconians can dissapear i.e they are able to control thier frequency, to appear or disappear. its like fk radio station you change frequency and you hear different channels in the same one AIR, you dont see z103.5 flying through the air into your cd deck, its invisible to your eye and only audioable to your ear, as you change frequecny you change through the different frequency levels through the air waves.

i know the ish about draconians is ancient and TRUE, our family is protected by JIN for seven generations and im the fifth. its a long fkn story, but its true i have seen s,hit, you would freak out and have a heart attack over. And i bet you no man on this planet would not belive in God after seeing just some of it.

the devil is associated with Black magic, God also known as "The absolute Truth" is associated with White majic. Did you know arabs or i mean the quran sorry, has many verses that seem oblivious to people same way it did to me till i had a friend who got me the english versions, 99% of their prayers include special or verses that protec them from evil, God has spood fed them with white magic sentences that protect when they pray those words.

read about it in the papers, there was this chick going home late from work one night, and it was an open parking lot and her car was the only one parked there, and she frooz because she was scared so she called her mom, and her mom said just pray the prayer, which she did, and then her mother said just go to your car he won't do anything, and so she did, she got half a metre close to him, and he was shivvering and frozen like he saw a ghost, and so she quickly got in her car left and called the cops, he was later at the cop station the next day, and she was called in to see the line up, and she saw the guy and so she told the cop i want to talk to him, the cop said miss are you mad, you need to be protected, but the women insisted, well she got what she wanted, she went to the guy and asked him, why did you not hurt me or steal my purse or my car?


the guy looked up, and said, i couldn't MOVE!!!!, there were giant men 3 stories high on both sides of you with wings,and i was so scared i though i was going to die, the lady got scared in shock, and left.

now if you have herd CLAIMS from abducted people, they or some of them are telling the truth, they describe the same cannot MOVE, but everything is funtional part, anyone with that kind of power is angelic, as we all call them From heaven, which dosen't literally mean they are from heaven, the word heaven is anything peacful, or in other words far beyong in the sky. just like people though the world was flat, when the word heaven was used and still today people think of heaven as in up, where is UP in space.lol

i also bet this has happened to you and most other people, you are sleeping and you are unable to move, you are fully concious in your sleep but you can't move, like something just froze you, thats a type of Jin that has just touched you, to get information from you, or just to fk around with you, they are very michievious, they sometimes teleport people from one place to another while they are driving out far in the country all alone, they fk around with people in more ways then you'll know, like when you say "i swear that ish was not there it was there" congratulations a jin just fked with you.

did you also know its very bad to have orgies, why, im not exactly sure but i was told if you have an orgy you open portals to evil influence.

you might think this is funny, but there is a whole lot you don't know about, okay its your choice to belive in God or not, by all means, the only thing i argue with you about is don't try to disprove it, because you will never win that argument, you might get confused by the fake practioners and churches, but the truth is there are people who practice it truely and that there are millions of proof all over the world that there is God, and last i checked for somthing to be true it only has to be proven once, we know air exists even though we don't see it, thats a HUGE fkin hint for someone with common sence if thats possible what else is there that we cannot see, and air is just a given example to us at our understanding.

Pyro

actually no, something has to be proven multiple times with consistent results and methodology before it can be classified as a "truth", the whole point about proving something is using the scientific method and being able to replicate the results on a consistent basis following the same methodology/instructions. that's how you prove something to be true.

Cynikal.Mindset

prove to me he/she/it is real...show me evidence...just cuz you can fool the masses by no means does that validate a thing...hell people think david blane can levitate or that david copperfield really makes planes disappear...its all an agrument that will never ever be solved

szuberi

i cant type as much as forsale does but i will try lol. to your question matt, i will just say one thing and that is...

"GOD DOES WHAT PEOPLE CANT DO"

Creation of earth, planet, this universe, change in weather, the complex function of human brain etc etc. are things that we can not replicate is simple proof of existance of a higher power. If you dont believe God exists, who do you think has the power to take the life out of your body at a pre-determined time?

There is no interesting philosophical conclusion that can be proven beyond the possibility of doubt. So the fact that arguments for the existence of God do not produce mathematical certainty does not by itself weaken the case for God's existence.

How many things you believe in a given day? What your doctor, lawyer and the government tells you? You give them blind faith....why dont you ever question your doctor.....you trust your family blindly so do you have belief in you. Now you have to be rational in describing that if you can believe people that u know, barely know or dont know at all....what stops you from believing a higher power is responsible for alot of things in a day?

szuberi

one thing i believe is that...If God were small enough to be understood, he would not be big enough to be worshiped.

Cynikal.Mindset

creation of earth...c'mon
change in weather...explained via high/low pressure systems, earth's orientation to the sun etc...most things have logical explanations...I dont trust my doctor whole-heartedly, thats what tests and second opinions are for...scientific tests for that matter that have been reproduced to get the same outcome to diagnose a condition, I dont trust anybody whole-heartedly for that matter, you cant...you're just setting yourself up to get burned...life in a whole can be mapped mathematically into a pattern, simple no but a complex pattern

so just because something isnt understood you should worship it? hell I dont understand how a man could want to have sex with another man but I dont worship homosexuals

all this does is go in circles with people that believe and give an answer that many times can be countered and when they counter the counter they just say something along the lines of "god works in mysterious ways" like what in the hell is that? you dont know or what? just make something up to fill in the blank

the way I look at life is, that it is MY life to live to MY standards and there is no sacred book that dictates the way in which I should conduct my life...I make my choices, and if ish happens it happens not because god wanted it to...its part of the pattern of life...am I any better or worse than a religious person? I dont believe so but people tell me "you need god in my life" what the hell for?

szuberi

the answer to my question is all in your post...i will pick and choose a couple of interesting points out of it.

you said..that it is MY life to live to MY standards and there is no sacred book that dictates the way in which I should conduct my life

all holy books contain teachings and messages from God and NONE tell their subjects directly or indirectly to commit or do wrong....they only tell you to do right so whatever book one follows...bible, quran or torah etc...you are not being dictated but instead are being guided. at the same time, the book also tells you to abstain from doing wrong. tell me if this is not common sense? to do right and not to do wrong.

and if ish happens it happens not because god wanted it to...its part of the pattern of life

how does this pattern work then? i can also argue that if your answer is 'thats the way it is'....you simply dont know and not just you...all of us dont know.

creation of earth...c'mon change in weather...explained via high/low pressure systems, earth's orientation to the sun etc...most things have logical explanations

actually not true. most things do not have a logical explanation because the way life works...it is taken as a standard without exception. for e.g you know that it will be morning after night. why not afternoon first....we dont know why so there is no question about it.

human life exists on earth only...so why there exists such a vast universe? we dont know and there is no logical explanation. scientific exploration only provides us with estimates.

we can go on and on over this....but u know an atheist is as much interested in God as a thief is in a policeman...lol so if you dont want to...you dont have. if you dont feel convinced....you dont have to. majority of the people do but do respect those who are believers. during the days of prophets, there was a lage number of people who disbelieved in God (history of atheism goes back thousands of years) so the prophets were given special powers to prove to these people through miracles that God exists)....Jesus could heal terminally ill people, moses crossed through the river jordan, mohammad pointed and split the moon are some examples.

so if you see...you are essentially saying the same thing...you cant believe in God cuz there is no proof...its nothing new. to whoever said..."you need God in your life"..i say that you dont actually...cuz God is inside you...closer to you than your senses.

btw...im getting my iphone on sunday

bruce fee

There is so much nonsense here I don't know where to begin.

I'm just very happy everyone picks and chooses what to believe in from a religion and then defends it. I am also amazed at how followers of religion, don't under the point of it.

Szuberi, Mr Islam, in an earlier thread, suggested he would be pleased for me to go to 'Hell'. Is that what his prophet would have preached? Or is that what the whackos who want to kill everyone with a different opinion want to preach?

The Golden Rule. Every Major Religion says it. Why will no one follow it?


The Golden Rule...For Atheists