If you have a choice........
14-Dec-2006, 05:15 PM
#61
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: (Toronto)
Posts: 3,744
1. whats your pricerange salman? these cars arent in the same pricerange nor are they in the same class, so i dont think you should compare the two.
2. whats important in a car to you? (features, prestige, fun, looks, etc...)
3. I cant stand the fact that the TSX's motor has no torque, its a freaking wannabe luxury car! any real luxury car wont be revving so damn high going uphill with more than 2 people in the car
thats my biggest problem with the tsx
but this is probably only me, because its an entry level luxury car i guess things such as this are to be expected
4. factory vs aftermarket gps. the main advantage i see in a factory gps is the clean look. other than that, its a clearly way overpriced and factory gps units usually arent as good as aftermarket ones. please don't bother arguing this with me, if u dont agree i dont care nor should you care what i think
2. whats important in a car to you? (features, prestige, fun, looks, etc...)
3. I cant stand the fact that the TSX's motor has no torque, its a freaking wannabe luxury car! any real luxury car wont be revving so damn high going uphill with more than 2 people in the car
thats my biggest problem with the tsx
but this is probably only me, because its an entry level luxury car i guess things such as this are to be expected
4. factory vs aftermarket gps. the main advantage i see in a factory gps is the clean look. other than that, its a clearly way overpriced and factory gps units usually arent as good as aftermarket ones. please don't bother arguing this with me, if u dont agree i dont care nor should you care what i think
14-Dec-2006, 05:29 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 13,184
Originally posted by civicnation
Since you want to beat this to death:
I have driven many cars with factory NAV (g35, tsx, TL)
I have also been in two cars with aftermarket navigation.
Observations:
-the only thing factory nav has over aftermarket is the fact that there is usually a bigger screen
-the aftermarket units offer quite a few more options then the factory nav in most cars
Maybe you are taking such offense to this because you own/want a tsx with the factory nav in it. My opinion shouldn't bother you in any way from enjoying whatever you have opted for. I feel that there are better units out there. The only way id get a tsx with factory nav is if the car is used where options don't really amount to a considerable price difference when compared to a model that doesn't have nav. Brand new it is not worth it because it drives up the price on a car that i feel is overpriced to begin with. Again this is an opinion so I wouldn't want you to get all agitated and ask for proof again.
Since you want to beat this to death:
I have driven many cars with factory NAV (g35, tsx, TL)
I have also been in two cars with aftermarket navigation.
Observations:
-the only thing factory nav has over aftermarket is the fact that there is usually a bigger screen
-the aftermarket units offer quite a few more options then the factory nav in most cars
Maybe you are taking such offense to this because you own/want a tsx with the factory nav in it. My opinion shouldn't bother you in any way from enjoying whatever you have opted for. I feel that there are better units out there. The only way id get a tsx with factory nav is if the car is used where options don't really amount to a considerable price difference when compared to a model that doesn't have nav. Brand new it is not worth it because it drives up the price on a car that i feel is overpriced to begin with. Again this is an opinion so I wouldn't want you to get all agitated and ask for proof again.
hdave - i don't care what you think either, doesn't affect me in anyway, i donno why everyone thinks i'm getting offended by it, i was just asking for someone to show me how the aftermarket one was better that's all...
apparently anytime someone doesn't agree with someone it's considered taking offense...
i just wanted something more quantifiable than 'more features'
14-Dec-2006, 05:42 PM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,266
well if two people have mistaken you taking offense maybe that is the way you are comming off to other people without knowing.
Once the consumer purchases a Factory GPS Navigation system as an option in a new vehicle, they will lose the ability to choose the additional features that certain aftermarket GPS navigation systems may have to offer, such as MP3 player, DVD player, reverse camera etc, which the OEM automotive manufacturer or factory may not have.
Factory navigation system mapping software is complied and package by the navigation manufacturers along with the navigation system before delivery to the automotive manufactures. We have found that most factory installed GPS navigation software comes with outdated mapping software; some by as much as 2-3 years. By the time a consumer purchases a new vehicle with the factory OEM navigation system, most likely an upgrade to the latest mapping software is available but not included with the purchase of the vehicle navigation system. Automotive dealers have little or no knowledge of how to obtain newer updated mapping software when asked. The automotive manufacture and dealers are in business to sell vehicles and not navigation systems and they have no interest of supporting your navigation system once consumers purchased the vehicle.
The map upgrades for the factory installed navigation systems are sold at a much higher price when and if they are made available to consumers. Normally at a cost of 300-400% of what an aftermarket update would cost; this alone can make the system obsolete since the cost of the update can be as much as 25-30% of the original cost of the OEM factory installed GPS system. Again, the automotive manufactures are not in the business of supporting navigation systems and they will mark up the update software to profit from this service should they chose to offer this type of product support. Some OEM manufactures may opt to discontinue support and update once the vehicle is a few years old much like the old Honda’s with the first and second generation GPS system that used PCMCIA memory cards and or CD’s for map data. These systems are no longer supported by the factory and the GPS systems in these vehicles are useless if the maps are outdated. In contrast, some after market GPS systems can be updated for as little as $99 a year.
The reason aftermarket accessories such as GPS systems, DVD players, and stereos are so popular, is generally they're a much better value for the money than the factory OEM product. Most factory installed add-ons are marked up for huge profits by the automotive manufacturers. The automotive manufacturer may opt to purchase from a GPS company, soon to be discontinued or outdated navigation systems, such as CD or DVD navigation systems, at a greatly reduce price of $300-$400 each, only to resell them to the consumer for $2,000 to $4,000 as standard equipped or a factory option. Most GPS systems these days use a computer hard drive with 20 GB of storage capacity. Yet most GPS systems that are offered in new vehicles are still utilizing DVD, or worse, a CD driven format. The difference in performance would be like comparing an 8-track tape sound system to a MP 3 player. Generally with aftermarket products, you as a consumer will be offered enhanced features, superior design, and greater performance for a much better value. If this weren't all true, the aftermarket manufacturers for automotive accessory systems would not exist. I submit the vast number of products in this market as a testament to the fact that these devices offer better value than the factory-installed OEM products.
The most troublesome restriction we have found with OEM GPS navigation systems is the inability to operate the system while the vehicle is moving! This is an issue for most customers, since they would like the option to operate the GPS Nav system, much like a radio or a cellphone, when the vehicle is in transit. In other circumstances the customers may want the option of being able to have a passenger operate the GPS system when the vehicle is in motion. This option, which is available for aftermarket portable GPS systems, is not made available for the OEM installed GPS systems. The vehicle must be at a dead stop to operate the OEM GPS system. This limitation alone can make one rethink the selection between choosing an OEM GPS navigation system or an aftermarket portable GPS system.
Another issue is that most car dealers understand electronics about as well as their average customers. They are in no position to either service or support the GPS systems that are equipped with the vehicle or sold as an option. It is a sideline for them. The specialists at Auto Nav 2000 Plus Inc. do this for a living. We know these systems. We understand them. We can answer your questions, and we can fix them!
You will have to take your vehicle back to a dealer for service for the factory installed GPS Navigation system if it should fail. You will lose the ability to use your vehicle when the dealer is repairing the factory GPS Navigation system. This will not occur with an aftermarket navigation system, just turn the navigation system in for service and drive your car away until the navigation system is repaired.
You will not be able to transfer factory in-car Navigation systems from one vehicle to another when you chose to use your 2nd vehicle or RV. Most aftermarket navigation systems are either portable or offer 2nd car navigation kits.
Factory Navigation systems are not portable, so you will not be able to take a factory Navigation system in an airplane for business or vacation trips. Currently, Magellan, Garmin, Tom Tom Go, Mio, Plink, Lowrance, Horizon, Sanyo, NavMan, Emerson, AvMap, Cobra, and Pronounced Audio navigation systems all offer portable navigation systems for the aftermarket retail segment at a fraction of the cost of an installed factory OEM system. Thus giving the aftermarket consumers the flexibility to purchase one unit and use it in a variety of other vehicles, like in a rental car while on trips.
Aftermarket navigation systems such as Magellan, Garmin, Tom Tom and NavMan now have European software capabilities as well. This means if you are going to travel in Europe, you will enjoy the same benefit as you would using the same GPS system in the U.S. You will be able to rent a vehicle in Europe and use your own navigation system, which is already familiar to operate, to get you where you’re going. This feature is NOT POSSIBLE for an installed OEM GPS system.
Consumers have the option to choose from several different LCD display sizes with Aftermarket Navigation systems. Some display sizes range from 2” to 7” and add on capability to interface for DVD, VCP, C/D Games, MP3 music and Reverse Cameras, etc. This is not an option or offered with most factory Navigation systems. Consumer only can buy what the factory has to offer in certain models, no choice or options for consumer to choose from.
Factory systems sometimes incorporate multiple vehicle functions into a multi task display monitor for Navigation, heating and A/C, and Radio CD changer selector etc. If any one of these system operations should become faulty, the complete system would need to be repaired which is most likely to be much more expensive than a single aftermarket GPS navigation system to repair.
Touch Screens are standard in most factory Navigation systems and is nice. Magellan, Garmin, NavMan, Tom Tom Go, Plink, Emerson and Lowrance currently also have touch screen functions that are included in their portable GPS navigation systems.
Factory Navigation systems are very costly compared to a high-end aftermarket GPS navigation system that offers many more features and options.
You must purchase a certain year, make and model of a High End vehicle to qualify to purchase one that is equipped with a GPS system and or as an option. This limits your choices to only a few certain higher-end vehicles that the factory has chosen to install navigation systems in. Buying an aftermarket navigation system gives you the option to purchase the vehicle you desire, and still enjoy a true high-end aftermarket GPS navigation system that you can use in many different vehicles!
Finally, In the Annual Auto Issue for Consumer Reports April 2001 issue, listed on page 8 under “The Worst” “Annoying. Audio, Climate, and navigation systems that fight for one screen. There’s no separate display for each; instead, you must go through the temperature setting, etc., to get what you want. Examples: Acura MDX, Honda Odyssey (climate and navigation only), Lexus RX300, and Mercedes-Benz ML430.”
Based on the above data, it is a clear choice for the well-informed consumer, who is looking for a GPS In-Vehicle Navigation system with the best value and options, to purchase an aftermarket GPS system!
After a consumer purchases a factory navigation system, it will stay with the vehicle upon resale. The seller usually will not see any extra value for additional accessories. When the consumer purchases an after-market navigation system the vehicle owner will be able to remove the navigation system, and install the after-market system into the new vehicle.
Once the consumer purchases a Factory GPS Navigation system as an option in a new vehicle, they will lose the ability to choose the additional features that certain aftermarket GPS navigation systems may have to offer, such as MP3 player, DVD player, reverse camera etc, which the OEM automotive manufacturer or factory may not have.
Factory navigation system mapping software is complied and package by the navigation manufacturers along with the navigation system before delivery to the automotive manufactures. We have found that most factory installed GPS navigation software comes with outdated mapping software; some by as much as 2-3 years. By the time a consumer purchases a new vehicle with the factory OEM navigation system, most likely an upgrade to the latest mapping software is available but not included with the purchase of the vehicle navigation system. Automotive dealers have little or no knowledge of how to obtain newer updated mapping software when asked. The automotive manufacture and dealers are in business to sell vehicles and not navigation systems and they have no interest of supporting your navigation system once consumers purchased the vehicle.
The map upgrades for the factory installed navigation systems are sold at a much higher price when and if they are made available to consumers. Normally at a cost of 300-400% of what an aftermarket update would cost; this alone can make the system obsolete since the cost of the update can be as much as 25-30% of the original cost of the OEM factory installed GPS system. Again, the automotive manufactures are not in the business of supporting navigation systems and they will mark up the update software to profit from this service should they chose to offer this type of product support. Some OEM manufactures may opt to discontinue support and update once the vehicle is a few years old much like the old Honda’s with the first and second generation GPS system that used PCMCIA memory cards and or CD’s for map data. These systems are no longer supported by the factory and the GPS systems in these vehicles are useless if the maps are outdated. In contrast, some after market GPS systems can be updated for as little as $99 a year.
The reason aftermarket accessories such as GPS systems, DVD players, and stereos are so popular, is generally they're a much better value for the money than the factory OEM product. Most factory installed add-ons are marked up for huge profits by the automotive manufacturers. The automotive manufacturer may opt to purchase from a GPS company, soon to be discontinued or outdated navigation systems, such as CD or DVD navigation systems, at a greatly reduce price of $300-$400 each, only to resell them to the consumer for $2,000 to $4,000 as standard equipped or a factory option. Most GPS systems these days use a computer hard drive with 20 GB of storage capacity. Yet most GPS systems that are offered in new vehicles are still utilizing DVD, or worse, a CD driven format. The difference in performance would be like comparing an 8-track tape sound system to a MP 3 player. Generally with aftermarket products, you as a consumer will be offered enhanced features, superior design, and greater performance for a much better value. If this weren't all true, the aftermarket manufacturers for automotive accessory systems would not exist. I submit the vast number of products in this market as a testament to the fact that these devices offer better value than the factory-installed OEM products.
The most troublesome restriction we have found with OEM GPS navigation systems is the inability to operate the system while the vehicle is moving! This is an issue for most customers, since they would like the option to operate the GPS Nav system, much like a radio or a cellphone, when the vehicle is in transit. In other circumstances the customers may want the option of being able to have a passenger operate the GPS system when the vehicle is in motion. This option, which is available for aftermarket portable GPS systems, is not made available for the OEM installed GPS systems. The vehicle must be at a dead stop to operate the OEM GPS system. This limitation alone can make one rethink the selection between choosing an OEM GPS navigation system or an aftermarket portable GPS system.
Another issue is that most car dealers understand electronics about as well as their average customers. They are in no position to either service or support the GPS systems that are equipped with the vehicle or sold as an option. It is a sideline for them. The specialists at Auto Nav 2000 Plus Inc. do this for a living. We know these systems. We understand them. We can answer your questions, and we can fix them!
You will have to take your vehicle back to a dealer for service for the factory installed GPS Navigation system if it should fail. You will lose the ability to use your vehicle when the dealer is repairing the factory GPS Navigation system. This will not occur with an aftermarket navigation system, just turn the navigation system in for service and drive your car away until the navigation system is repaired.
You will not be able to transfer factory in-car Navigation systems from one vehicle to another when you chose to use your 2nd vehicle or RV. Most aftermarket navigation systems are either portable or offer 2nd car navigation kits.
Factory Navigation systems are not portable, so you will not be able to take a factory Navigation system in an airplane for business or vacation trips. Currently, Magellan, Garmin, Tom Tom Go, Mio, Plink, Lowrance, Horizon, Sanyo, NavMan, Emerson, AvMap, Cobra, and Pronounced Audio navigation systems all offer portable navigation systems for the aftermarket retail segment at a fraction of the cost of an installed factory OEM system. Thus giving the aftermarket consumers the flexibility to purchase one unit and use it in a variety of other vehicles, like in a rental car while on trips.
Aftermarket navigation systems such as Magellan, Garmin, Tom Tom and NavMan now have European software capabilities as well. This means if you are going to travel in Europe, you will enjoy the same benefit as you would using the same GPS system in the U.S. You will be able to rent a vehicle in Europe and use your own navigation system, which is already familiar to operate, to get you where you’re going. This feature is NOT POSSIBLE for an installed OEM GPS system.
Consumers have the option to choose from several different LCD display sizes with Aftermarket Navigation systems. Some display sizes range from 2” to 7” and add on capability to interface for DVD, VCP, C/D Games, MP3 music and Reverse Cameras, etc. This is not an option or offered with most factory Navigation systems. Consumer only can buy what the factory has to offer in certain models, no choice or options for consumer to choose from.
Factory systems sometimes incorporate multiple vehicle functions into a multi task display monitor for Navigation, heating and A/C, and Radio CD changer selector etc. If any one of these system operations should become faulty, the complete system would need to be repaired which is most likely to be much more expensive than a single aftermarket GPS navigation system to repair.
Touch Screens are standard in most factory Navigation systems and is nice. Magellan, Garmin, NavMan, Tom Tom Go, Plink, Emerson and Lowrance currently also have touch screen functions that are included in their portable GPS navigation systems.
Factory Navigation systems are very costly compared to a high-end aftermarket GPS navigation system that offers many more features and options.
You must purchase a certain year, make and model of a High End vehicle to qualify to purchase one that is equipped with a GPS system and or as an option. This limits your choices to only a few certain higher-end vehicles that the factory has chosen to install navigation systems in. Buying an aftermarket navigation system gives you the option to purchase the vehicle you desire, and still enjoy a true high-end aftermarket GPS navigation system that you can use in many different vehicles!
Finally, In the Annual Auto Issue for Consumer Reports April 2001 issue, listed on page 8 under “The Worst” “Annoying. Audio, Climate, and navigation systems that fight for one screen. There’s no separate display for each; instead, you must go through the temperature setting, etc., to get what you want. Examples: Acura MDX, Honda Odyssey (climate and navigation only), Lexus RX300, and Mercedes-Benz ML430.”
Based on the above data, it is a clear choice for the well-informed consumer, who is looking for a GPS In-Vehicle Navigation system with the best value and options, to purchase an aftermarket GPS system!
After a consumer purchases a factory navigation system, it will stay with the vehicle upon resale. The seller usually will not see any extra value for additional accessories. When the consumer purchases an after-market navigation system the vehicle owner will be able to remove the navigation system, and install the after-market system into the new vehicle.
14-Dec-2006, 06:11 PM
#64
I'm sorry, but I'd rather have my navi integrated than have some nasty thing hanging off my windshield. However, at the same time.... I have no use for navi, so I just woulnd't have it to begin with.
OEM is ALWAYS AND FOREVER greater than any aftermarket add-on. Just understand what it means for a feature to be integrated into a Honda... and you will understand why OEM is the greatest. Only exception is IMO spring rates... just cuz they have to please a wide variety of drivers with their ONE spring rate... so I think getting a high quality suspension aftermarket is acceptable.
OEM is ALWAYS AND FOREVER greater than any aftermarket add-on. Just understand what it means for a feature to be integrated into a Honda... and you will understand why OEM is the greatest. Only exception is IMO spring rates... just cuz they have to please a wide variety of drivers with their ONE spring rate... so I think getting a high quality suspension aftermarket is acceptable.
14-Dec-2006, 06:43 PM
#65
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: (Toronto)
Posts: 3,744
oem isnt always and forever greater than aftermarket
suspension as you mentioned
rims (wide variety of looks, light weight, stronger material etc..)
if what you said is true then there would be no aftermaket stuff at all
just incase you didnt know this..
you can get a very high end aftermarket custom installed in the dash for cheaper than what most navigation addons cost at the dealer, and you will not have a nasty thing hanging off your windshield.
suspension as you mentioned
rims (wide variety of looks, light weight, stronger material etc..)
if what you said is true then there would be no aftermaket stuff at all
just incase you didnt know this..
you can get a very high end aftermarket custom installed in the dash for cheaper than what most navigation addons cost at the dealer, and you will not have a nasty thing hanging off your windshield.
14-Dec-2006, 07:24 PM
#66
aftermarket stuff is intended as cheap replacement parts (ie. canadian tire parts). performance aftermarket is an anomaly created by the niche market of fanboys.
automotive modification has it's roots in the early days of racing when racing was a sport of the wealthy elite. this market is still open as evidenced by modified porsches and ferarris.
as for custom install... I don't care how pretty they make it look when they install it, it will never have the level of sophistication and integration that an OEM unit will. the OEM unit will blend well with the interior, maintain a high resale value (would you buy a used TSX with a chopped dash?), be covered under warranty... and last through many temperature swings for many years to come. OEM FTW!
automotive modification has it's roots in the early days of racing when racing was a sport of the wealthy elite. this market is still open as evidenced by modified porsches and ferarris.
as for custom install... I don't care how pretty they make it look when they install it, it will never have the level of sophistication and integration that an OEM unit will. the OEM unit will blend well with the interior, maintain a high resale value (would you buy a used TSX with a chopped dash?), be covered under warranty... and last through many temperature swings for many years to come. OEM FTW!
14-Dec-2006, 07:58 PM
#67
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: (Toronto)
Posts: 3,744
it doesnt matter what its intended as, the fact is that there are lots of aftermarket parts that surpass their oem counterparts
thanks for letting us know that auto modding has its roots in the early days, i feel so enlightened lol
and the fact that this market is still open... get out of town! i had nnnooooo idea
i agree that in terms of warranty, ease, etc... oem is better
but you cant just plain say that oem is always and forever greater, thats too much of an over statement
thanks for letting us know that auto modding has its roots in the early days, i feel so enlightened lol
and the fact that this market is still open... get out of town! i had nnnooooo idea
i agree that in terms of warranty, ease, etc... oem is better
but you cant just plain say that oem is always and forever greater, thats too much of an over statement
14-Dec-2006, 11:27 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 13,184
**** The following post contains my opinion, and is not me taking offense to civicnation's post *****
1st paragraph - not true with the tsx, you can add all of those options either from the factory or with the use of SOME aftermarket parts
2nd paragraph - not always true, but yes sometimes the software is out dated, but it's about the same risk as buying an aftermarket one being outdated... the fact that honda/acura uses a DVD driven system means that updating the navi is as simple as buying a new disc, about 150 or so from the dealer... not too far off from your 99. Dealers atleast the one i've been to are definitely interested in servicing your nav, because as we all know keeping a customer happy means they'll come back and buy another car, it's all about after sales support these days.
3rd paragraph - I can agree with you on the point of the 20GB drive, and to your point automotive manufacturers do try to drive costs out of making a car, even a few bucks makes a HUGE difference in the MSRP, so ya using a DVD drive is cheaper, but also lets you update information easier. A trade off i guess, i definitely haven't had any problems or noticed any differeince in 'quality' with my DVD driven system and i've had an aftermarket navi with the HD...
4th paragraph - Honda/Acura Navi is able to be operated while the vehicle is moving, you don't have to be at a dead stop, also if you don't want to use your hands, you can use your voice to pick the features, letting you keep your full attention on the road.
5th paragraph - (aside from this either being a copy and paste, or you pimping your business) - these days new cars have so much technology, dealers have to understand electronics. the TSX is basically a big computer, with EVERYTHINg being eletronic and controlled by the ECU or some other computer system that's all connected and integrated. Most dealers have specific people trained to deal with the OEM systems, and it's just as complicated as checking your ECU if it's throwing a code, all electronics, and they're trained properly.
6th paragraph - this is true, you will have to take your vehicle back, but if you have a good dealer they give you a loaner car for free (and as a bonus with the TSX you might get a TL or an RDX to drive
) that you can drive for the duration of your repair.
7th paragraph - this is true you can't transfer the nav units between cars, but really if i want something portable i'ill get one of those new motorola phones, or a palm pilot with GPS. Also if i bought a brand new car, i would want a new nav, not carrying over my old outdated 3-4 yr old nav (even if the maps are updated, other features will be)
8th or 9th? - i don't buy things intending to use them in europe, but if that's what you're going for, then aftermarket definitely has the edge.
10th? - LCD display sizes, i guess if you want a 2" screen then go for it - but remember that's smaller than the screens on most digi cams these days... 7" screens are easier to look at while the car is in motion and can display more info.. also lots of cars have reverse cameras, and if not you can easily add one on and tap into the navigation screen..
11th - yes if something breaks, then the whole system needs to be repaired yes, but if it's a software problem it will be an easy fix, if it's something mechanical or hardware, it will also be able to be fixed. If your aftermarket nav breaks after 1 yr, you'll have to shell out the dough to fix it anyways, as opposed to the oem one that has the factory 4 yr warranty or whatever it is depending on the brand of car...
12th - touch screens are standard in most, but not all, but i agree is definitely key to operating the system, makes it WAAAY easier
14? - yes, the better the car the better tha nav system... if you have a 98 civic, for sure go aftermarket, even if you did retrofit the JDM nav unit and found a cd for north america, i definitely would see the value in getting the aftermarket instead... also it's easy to put in cuz radios back then are din or double din, not integrated like these days..
15 - Consumer reports for 2001... seriously? that's 5 yrs old... 5 yrs ago wireless internet was just starting up, let's look at an old report talking about how people wish their wireless internet was more reliable?? ... things have definitely changed since then... now it's actually 6 yrs as we're in 2007 model yr..
i guess it's a 'clear choice for the well-informed consumer' if you have a car that doesn't offer a good nav... i think before you make any of these decisions it would be important to check out the individual car, the manufacturer and see 1 - how their nav stacks up against the rest, 2 - how their nav stacks up against aftermarket...
Ya i agree that the value will be lost, buying a nav system isn't an investment... neither is a car... it's paying for the use you're gonna get out of it, when you sell the car, you won't sell it for a few g's more, but you also won't sell your 3 yr old aftermarket nav for full price either...
my points for OEM nav, and i don't have a whole 2000 word essay to write are simple..
- voice integration with the car via steering wheel controls - not many aftermarket ones offer this
- integration of the nav with bluetooth handsfree link - i say "find restaurant" pick the one i want, i can say "call" and it will call the restauraunt and i can make reservations - all while driving and keeping my eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel
- voice control over other things in the car in addition to the nav basically anything that you can control with switches you can also control with your voice - i thought it was cheezy at first but it really is handy (no pun intended) when you're busy driving in crap weather and don't want to take your eyes off the road or your hands off the wheel... changing cd's or tracks, switching to the radio station with news/traffic, changing the temperature, finding the current location... there's HUNDREDS of voice commands that you can use, and almost all of them are useful... there are however af ew useless ones... like "what time is it" (the clock is located in CLEAR sight on the dash... def quicker to glance over than to ask the question"
- flawless integration with the audio system and the bluetooth phone link
- factory warranty of 4 yrs, 80,000km (not the 12 months aftermarket items have)
- clean look on the dash - with many cars (newer cars) even IF you tried to install it in the whole dash it wouldn't work you'd have to have it installed somewhere else on the dash like a storage bin or something, with a pop out screen, down low not easy to look at, not in direct eye sight..
- easily upgradable to be able to watch dvd's, xbox, tv, reverse camera, whatever else you want... tons of plug and play options, or easy ways to splice in yourself if you aren't afraid of warranty... also you have the option of adding in a car computer, utilizing the touch screne and other features... it's definitely expandable... if you want to
- way harder to steal an OEM nav, as well as being less desierable to steal - adding in an OEM nav to the same car that's non nav is a HUGE HUGE HUGE pain in the *** because of the level of integration - few people would be willing to take that on, making the market for these 'hot' parts real small... aftermarket nav's however are real easy to install almost anyone could do it themselves, making it a much larger market...
- integration with the rest of the cars systems - nav is integrated with the multi-information-display - with the lighting systems (in addition to the a/c and all those other things that you mentioned in your post)
those are just the ones that i thought of just now off the top of my head.
I can see now that you do have some decent points, and in the end it definitely comes down to individual choice... and what you're looking to get out of your nav, what degree of integration, portability etc... but i still don't think a blanket statement that all aftermarket is better than oem is true... if that were true oem wouldn't exist either right? ... there's no such thing as the perfect anything, if there was everything else would become obsolete...
1st paragraph - not true with the tsx, you can add all of those options either from the factory or with the use of SOME aftermarket parts
2nd paragraph - not always true, but yes sometimes the software is out dated, but it's about the same risk as buying an aftermarket one being outdated... the fact that honda/acura uses a DVD driven system means that updating the navi is as simple as buying a new disc, about 150 or so from the dealer... not too far off from your 99. Dealers atleast the one i've been to are definitely interested in servicing your nav, because as we all know keeping a customer happy means they'll come back and buy another car, it's all about after sales support these days.
3rd paragraph - I can agree with you on the point of the 20GB drive, and to your point automotive manufacturers do try to drive costs out of making a car, even a few bucks makes a HUGE difference in the MSRP, so ya using a DVD drive is cheaper, but also lets you update information easier. A trade off i guess, i definitely haven't had any problems or noticed any differeince in 'quality' with my DVD driven system and i've had an aftermarket navi with the HD...
4th paragraph - Honda/Acura Navi is able to be operated while the vehicle is moving, you don't have to be at a dead stop, also if you don't want to use your hands, you can use your voice to pick the features, letting you keep your full attention on the road.
5th paragraph - (aside from this either being a copy and paste, or you pimping your business) - these days new cars have so much technology, dealers have to understand electronics. the TSX is basically a big computer, with EVERYTHINg being eletronic and controlled by the ECU or some other computer system that's all connected and integrated. Most dealers have specific people trained to deal with the OEM systems, and it's just as complicated as checking your ECU if it's throwing a code, all electronics, and they're trained properly.
6th paragraph - this is true, you will have to take your vehicle back, but if you have a good dealer they give you a loaner car for free (and as a bonus with the TSX you might get a TL or an RDX to drive
) that you can drive for the duration of your repair. 7th paragraph - this is true you can't transfer the nav units between cars, but really if i want something portable i'ill get one of those new motorola phones, or a palm pilot with GPS. Also if i bought a brand new car, i would want a new nav, not carrying over my old outdated 3-4 yr old nav (even if the maps are updated, other features will be)
8th or 9th? - i don't buy things intending to use them in europe, but if that's what you're going for, then aftermarket definitely has the edge.
10th? - LCD display sizes, i guess if you want a 2" screen then go for it - but remember that's smaller than the screens on most digi cams these days... 7" screens are easier to look at while the car is in motion and can display more info.. also lots of cars have reverse cameras, and if not you can easily add one on and tap into the navigation screen..
11th - yes if something breaks, then the whole system needs to be repaired yes, but if it's a software problem it will be an easy fix, if it's something mechanical or hardware, it will also be able to be fixed. If your aftermarket nav breaks after 1 yr, you'll have to shell out the dough to fix it anyways, as opposed to the oem one that has the factory 4 yr warranty or whatever it is depending on the brand of car...
12th - touch screens are standard in most, but not all, but i agree is definitely key to operating the system, makes it WAAAY easier
14? - yes, the better the car the better tha nav system... if you have a 98 civic, for sure go aftermarket, even if you did retrofit the JDM nav unit and found a cd for north america, i definitely would see the value in getting the aftermarket instead... also it's easy to put in cuz radios back then are din or double din, not integrated like these days..
15 - Consumer reports for 2001... seriously? that's 5 yrs old... 5 yrs ago wireless internet was just starting up, let's look at an old report talking about how people wish their wireless internet was more reliable?? ... things have definitely changed since then... now it's actually 6 yrs as we're in 2007 model yr..
i guess it's a 'clear choice for the well-informed consumer' if you have a car that doesn't offer a good nav... i think before you make any of these decisions it would be important to check out the individual car, the manufacturer and see 1 - how their nav stacks up against the rest, 2 - how their nav stacks up against aftermarket...
Ya i agree that the value will be lost, buying a nav system isn't an investment... neither is a car... it's paying for the use you're gonna get out of it, when you sell the car, you won't sell it for a few g's more, but you also won't sell your 3 yr old aftermarket nav for full price either...
my points for OEM nav, and i don't have a whole 2000 word essay to write are simple..
- voice integration with the car via steering wheel controls - not many aftermarket ones offer this
- integration of the nav with bluetooth handsfree link - i say "find restaurant" pick the one i want, i can say "call" and it will call the restauraunt and i can make reservations - all while driving and keeping my eyes on the road and both hands on the wheel
- voice control over other things in the car in addition to the nav basically anything that you can control with switches you can also control with your voice - i thought it was cheezy at first but it really is handy (no pun intended) when you're busy driving in crap weather and don't want to take your eyes off the road or your hands off the wheel... changing cd's or tracks, switching to the radio station with news/traffic, changing the temperature, finding the current location... there's HUNDREDS of voice commands that you can use, and almost all of them are useful... there are however af ew useless ones... like "what time is it" (the clock is located in CLEAR sight on the dash... def quicker to glance over than to ask the question"
- flawless integration with the audio system and the bluetooth phone link
- factory warranty of 4 yrs, 80,000km (not the 12 months aftermarket items have)
- clean look on the dash - with many cars (newer cars) even IF you tried to install it in the whole dash it wouldn't work you'd have to have it installed somewhere else on the dash like a storage bin or something, with a pop out screen, down low not easy to look at, not in direct eye sight..
- easily upgradable to be able to watch dvd's, xbox, tv, reverse camera, whatever else you want... tons of plug and play options, or easy ways to splice in yourself if you aren't afraid of warranty... also you have the option of adding in a car computer, utilizing the touch screne and other features... it's definitely expandable... if you want to
- way harder to steal an OEM nav, as well as being less desierable to steal - adding in an OEM nav to the same car that's non nav is a HUGE HUGE HUGE pain in the *** because of the level of integration - few people would be willing to take that on, making the market for these 'hot' parts real small... aftermarket nav's however are real easy to install almost anyone could do it themselves, making it a much larger market...
- integration with the rest of the cars systems - nav is integrated with the multi-information-display - with the lighting systems (in addition to the a/c and all those other things that you mentioned in your post)
those are just the ones that i thought of just now off the top of my head.
I can see now that you do have some decent points, and in the end it definitely comes down to individual choice... and what you're looking to get out of your nav, what degree of integration, portability etc... but i still don't think a blanket statement that all aftermarket is better than oem is true... if that were true oem wouldn't exist either right? ... there's no such thing as the perfect anything, if there was everything else would become obsolete...
14-Dec-2006, 11:53 PM
#69
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,266
Im surprised you even read it, I didnt. Straight copy and paste from the net since you wanted a few specifics. There are difference and do exist so its good to at least acknowlege their existance. Both have their pros and cons. To me the pros of the aftermarket unit outweight the cons, but to you they don't. To each their own.
15-Dec-2006, 09:48 AM
#70
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Photographer's Corner
Posts: 13,424
Both of you have presented some excellent points in favor of your preference. Personally, i think the best that an OEM navi offers is its sleek and smooth integration...it feels a part of the whole dash, its secure, it has warranty, adds to the car's resale etc....looking at the other side of the coin....all this comes at a very high price so there is a trade-off.
since i am open to the idea of even getting a used 05-06 model, i might prefer looking for one with an OEM navi in it since it will not demand such a high premium. FYI...the TSX and TL navis is $2800 and $3100 respectively. and for 2007, i read that the TSX will have a bluetooth handsfree feature for cellphones built in.
in contrast, i can also perhaps lease an all-new 07 model and add all the bells and whistles to it right from the start.
Harsh....i know that the TL and TSX are not in the same category but after crunching the numbers....the difference is not much interms of monthly payments since a dealer would discount a TL more than a TSX (TL being a slow moving item than the TSX) plus the rates are also different on the two. Plus...based on the insurance quotes b/w the two...the TL is cheaper for me than the TSX. This wont be a decision maker though...
Between the two....i am somewhat leaning towards the TSX due to a number of reasons. Alot of them as described by SilverSIG/Alex candidly....a bit more sportier, easier to mantain, modable...perhaps more youthful.
Being a finance person...i am always crunching numbers in my damn brain...so im working on a 'cost of ownership' analysis b/w the two cars......In case of TL, my wife loves it but she also says whatever you want (which doesnt help) Owning a Nissan Murano, I know how thirsty V6 motors are when it comes to gas and their maintenance...and dealers/maintenance schedules never tell you everything...lol...i had to recently for maintenance of Electronic Throttle Control ($150) and CVT fluid flush ($200). Or perhaps its just being used to driving a low maintenace car like a civic for me.....
thanks again guys....lets see how it goes
since i am open to the idea of even getting a used 05-06 model, i might prefer looking for one with an OEM navi in it since it will not demand such a high premium. FYI...the TSX and TL navis is $2800 and $3100 respectively. and for 2007, i read that the TSX will have a bluetooth handsfree feature for cellphones built in.
in contrast, i can also perhaps lease an all-new 07 model and add all the bells and whistles to it right from the start.
Harsh....i know that the TL and TSX are not in the same category but after crunching the numbers....the difference is not much interms of monthly payments since a dealer would discount a TL more than a TSX (TL being a slow moving item than the TSX) plus the rates are also different on the two. Plus...based on the insurance quotes b/w the two...the TL is cheaper for me than the TSX. This wont be a decision maker though...
Between the two....i am somewhat leaning towards the TSX due to a number of reasons. Alot of them as described by SilverSIG/Alex candidly....a bit more sportier, easier to mantain, modable...perhaps more youthful.
Being a finance person...i am always crunching numbers in my damn brain...so im working on a 'cost of ownership' analysis b/w the two cars......In case of TL, my wife loves it but she also says whatever you want (which doesnt help) Owning a Nissan Murano, I know how thirsty V6 motors are when it comes to gas and their maintenance...and dealers/maintenance schedules never tell you everything...lol...i had to recently for maintenance of Electronic Throttle Control ($150) and CVT fluid flush ($200). Or perhaps its just being used to driving a low maintenace car like a civic for me.....
thanks again guys....lets see how it goes
15-Dec-2006, 02:10 PM
#72
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally posted by civicnation
Why would he downgrade to that when is is considering two superior vehicles? It's a rediculous suggestion.
Why would he downgrade to that when is is considering two superior vehicles? It's a rediculous suggestion.
The TSX is a sweet car and I would even consider one. The TL is an old man's car IMO.
A V6 Accord EXL might be another option.
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