motti

Temp stickers are mounted on the front right of the windshield. A cop following you will not see the temporary sticker on the front windshield. They will simply see no rear plate at all, and that is valid grounds for a traffic stop for further investigation.

Temp plates also do not carry validation tags. Many people abuse those 10-day trip permits. So many people do so that a temporary permit alone is reasonable cause for a traffic stop to verify that it is still in effect, that the vehicle it is attached to is actually roadworthy, and that there is valid insurance on thevehicle.

Even without probable cause, the HTA permits arbitrary traffic stops to inspect and verify driver and vehicle documentation.

Date of issue on a license means nothing when it comes to being under suspension or not. A license can be administratively suspended 5 minutes after it is issued. All that matters to a cop is that the computer comes back and says "under suspension".

So what's the cop supposed to do when that comes over the computer screen? Should teh cop just say "Have a nice day and by the way, the computer says you're suspended so drive carefully"?

No, the cop did what he is expected to. Suspended drivers should not be driving. That's not hassling someone. That's performing his duty.

motti

The cop made him cry? So, was the cop supposed to take your buddy in his arms, stroke his head , and say, "now now, if you promise to be a good boy we'll pretend the computer didn't say you were suspended"?

And before you protest yet again that your buddy wasn't suspended, to the cop who pulled him over, the only thing that matters is what the computer says.

How is pulling a suspended driver off the road "corrupt"?

How does pulling a suspended driver off the road make a cop a son of a bitch?

I expect the cops to do their jobs, period. I personally don't care if the people they catch in a day's work end up crying as a result.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

well motti, if the computer says the license was supended in 2003, yet the guys license was issued yesterday... by simple mathematical deduction (even tho cops don't usually come with this 'feature') one could deduce that there is an error in the database, and he could contact the MTO and further review it rather than suspend this guys license for no reason. it's not the hassle, mind you, it's the fact next time this guy calls for insurance, he'll have to say his license HAS BEEN suspended!!!! and THAT is a huge kick in the nads for no reason at all.

And hey... the MTO says WHERE the temp is to be placed... so having it placed where you're told and STILL getting pulled over is straight b.s. It's like you can't do anything right in the eyes of the law. Put it where he can see it, you're screwed. Put it where you're told, and you're still screwed. I agree a lotta ppl abuse them, but if that's what you're stopping a person for, then just looking at the expiry date should do the trick.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

well, not corrupt... but it's certainly done in error and it should be reviewed and corrected. I mean, his license was NOT under suspension. seems to me you keep forgetting that.

well, what the computer says should be subject to the officer using his brain. I mean, if the computer says his birthdate is in 1937 and the guy behind the wheel is obviously like 20 yrs old... I mean... don't cops have ANY judgement at all??

imported_Yuki

This is getting rediculous. It's like the cops are getting to cocky or something. We need to back this guy up guys.

eMoney

Motti, There probably wasn't even a problem with the computer, nothing was wrong with the papers or the guys record, the cop pulled us over for no reason, and when he realized he was wrong he made up this bull **** about license being suspended.

motti

In-car computers don't give the date of suspension. They only state whether or not a driver is suspended.

If there is an administrative error behind the suspension, once corrected that record of suspension is removed from a driver's abstract and there would be no effect on insurance rates.

Getting pulled over is part of the risk of driving. It doesn't matter if you are driving a perfect 10 scale, you are still subject to arbitrary document inspection with no need for probable cause.

Re placement of temp permit... if you get pulled over because you have no rear plate, you're not getting screwed. You're just being subject to a document inspection, which you can be subject to at any time anyways. If all your documentation is in order, you drive away in a couple of minutes.

On the other hand, if there is a problem with your documentation, then yes, maybe you are screwed, but certainly not because the cop pulled you over. If you're screwed, it's because YOU have done (or not done) something to warrant a ticket.

eMoney

The is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. I think everyone has to respect each others dignity. ****, The way he treated us with the lack of respect as CANADIANS, and his tone of voice, his gay sarcasm, is completely Wrong and unjustify.


You obviously don't know anything about being discrimnated against.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

well, we don't know what kinda attitude this guy was giving the officer. I'm not gonna stick up when I don't know the FULL facts.

the bottom line is, however, is the officer err'd pretty badly and this should be taken care of through the courts. Like motti says, if it's all cleared up, then it's I GUESS okay... despite his MASSIVE waste of time going to courts and isht.

and I've been pulled over several times for said 'document checks'. It takes about 20-30 minutes outta my day, not to mention the mental distress over "OMFG what ticket am I gonna get NOW?!?!". Only to be told everything is cool.

One time I had a VOLUNTEER cop (yeah that's right, this guy was some unemployed idiot with a radio) chase me around the city for no reason. I lost him a couple of times, only to come across him agian in another part of town like 1/2 hour later. So I stop and get out of my car cuz at this point I'm about to pull him out of his car and smash his head in his windshield. Well as I'm walking up to the car, I see his radio and I ask him if he's a cop. Well he says he's a volunteer cop and he was following me around cuz the way my car looked he thought I was running drugs. greeeaaattt. I honestly thought he was some guy looking for me to go home so he could come back and jack my car later on. What an idiot!!! who puts these guys on the road??

motti

Are you serious? Do you really believe that a cop can just pull a suspension out of his back pocket just like that on an ordinary traffic stop?

How do you suppose that a cop would be able to defend that action in court, to his supervisors, or to the MTO?

I said it before - give your head a shake.

eMoney

That is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard. If my recollection of grade 12 Law, The charter of rights and freedom states we are protected from any arbitrary acts of law enforcement and the government for that matter.

motti

Mistaken identity with a driver's license number? Not likely.

Tell me this though - HOW did the officer err? Because he didn't accept the word of someone he pulled over that the license was valid? Put yourself in a typical cop's shoes and think about that for a minute.

motti

Ah yes, the discrimination card. Claim discrimination and anything you do is gold.

The most ridiculous thing I ever heard is "the cop made him cry", as if that is the cop's fault.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

actually, cops do treat you like dirt. they've stopped you cuz they assume you're somehow not on the level. therefore before they ever talk to you, you are less than dirt to them, and that's how they're gonna approch you. with intimidation and disrespect. this way they are in control of the situation and they are the figure of authority. its not right IMO, but I guess its effective with like... the 1-2 criminals they catch per year compared to the thousands of ppl on the level whom they harass every year lol j/k

I'm just saying he err'd cuz if it's true in fact that this guy's license was administratively ok, and he thought it was under suspension... well - that's an error? is it not? I mean, even databases rely on ppl for updates, and well, ppl make mistakes... he should have looked into it further IMO.

motti

The Highway Traffic Act allows stops for document inspection.

The Charter only protects you against arbitrary detention without reasonable cause. Being pulled over for a document inspection while driving is not considered detention.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

it's not detention... so can you just refuse and leave?? cuz if not, then that's detention

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

LOL "No thank you officer, I'm good. But thanks for asking"

but yeah, I know for a fact random traffic checks are constitutional. apparently our 'freedoms' only take us so far. our freedoms are only important to the point where the law wants to trample on them

motti

The information on the computer comes directly from the Ministry databases. If the computer says suspended, the cop is under no obligation to go through hoops to ensure the computer information is correct.

Besides, where would the cop even start? Call the same Ministry who would just in turn check the same database the in-car MDT draws from? The result will be the same because the root source of information is the same.

Now, let's say the cop persists. Let's do a manual check of the paper records that exist. But wait! These days almost everything is done on computer anyways, so, again we are back to the same database.

But still, let's persist some more. Let's wake up the records people in the main office, the records people in the branch office, and the records people at the driver testing center too, and have them all pore through whatever paper records may exist to verify what the computer says.

And while all this is going on, you can't let the driver leave. You would be stopped on the side of the road for hours, if not days or weeks.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

well camping out in the car beats having your license suspended haha

I dunno... just seems like this guy will go though a lotta hassle just cuz some **** down the line updated the database wrong. Like me, I work with a lotta sensitive info in databases, so I take my job very seriously.... so should anyone else doing db work. Ppl rely on this isht pretty hardcore.

Nova_Dust

This is good reading material.

Let's hear from what your friend has to say about all this licence suspension deal.