I never had a chance......
19-Apr-2003, 04:20 PM
#21
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Most places I know do the install for $100 -> $150.
And if they do last more than a couple of years, then you are ahead of the game.
Like I said, my freind has has his old Ractives on for around 4 seasons now.......he also took care of them and kept them greased/lubed. (he got ripped when he bought them though.....$450).
He said that if they finally did fuqk up, that there would be no way he would spend more than $200 on a new set, considering the R1's/Toms cost $100 +Tx for TCC members.
21-Apr-2003, 11:10 AM
#22
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when I purchased my car, it had Max Speed coilovers on it, and still do.
I asked the owner from day one to raise it to full height. The car is still slightly lower than my brothers 92 DX HB. they are also riding on stock shocks.
the ride quality in comparison to my bro's dx is disgusting. I bottom out quite a bit around brampton (the main streets, where they are old and shitty).
I'm putting in my stock springs in hopefully next weekend, aslong as these arent seized.
My rear right shock is fu*ked, it squeaks a lot.
I dont like coilovers.
By the end of the summer, after I get my body work done, I'm gonna try and purchase the suspension combo i wanted, h&r springs & kyb agx gas shocks.
I asked the owner from day one to raise it to full height. The car is still slightly lower than my brothers 92 DX HB. they are also riding on stock shocks.
the ride quality in comparison to my bro's dx is disgusting. I bottom out quite a bit around brampton (the main streets, where they are old and shitty).
I'm putting in my stock springs in hopefully next weekend, aslong as these arent seized.
My rear right shock is fu*ked, it squeaks a lot.
I dont like coilovers.
By the end of the summer, after I get my body work done, I'm gonna try and purchase the suspension combo i wanted, h&r springs & kyb agx gas shocks.
21-Apr-2003, 06:40 PM
#23
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Do me a favour, before you say....."I don't like coilovers"....and before you go back to the stock springs, get the struts/shocks checked.
Your own words....
Without good WORKING stuts/shocks, EVEN your stock springs will "bottom" out.
Your own words....
My rear right shock is fu*ked, it squeaks a lot.
21-Apr-2003, 06:46 PM
#24
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21-Apr-2003, 11:45 PM
#25
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Originally posted by PULOVR
Do me a favour, before you say....."I don't like coilovers"....and before you go back to the stock springs, get the struts/shocks checked.
Your own words....
Without good WORKING stuts/shocks, EVEN your stock springs will "bottom" out.
Do me a favour, before you say....."I don't like coilovers"....and before you go back to the stock springs, get the struts/shocks checked.
Your own words....
Without good WORKING stuts/shocks, EVEN your stock springs will "bottom" out.
im selling them to a friend, so, no second considerations for them
and even if i were to replace the shocks with new ones, they'd been gone not too long from when i replace them... and if i were to purchase a good quality aftermarket shock that can handle it.. well, id probably have the money to purchase a good aftermarket spring aswell. no sense in paying good cash for shocks and ride on shitty coilovers.. right?
22-Apr-2003, 12:10 AM
#26
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well... if it's a case of not having good shocks when installing coilovers.......
that means that if i go with a set of canadian tire no name shocks and the r1 coilovers...then the ride would be the same as the tein combo???? i don't think so
BUT end of story... if you want to cheap out... why not just cut your springs??? as long as you have great shocks... you should be ok
it's better to spend a little more now... then a lot more later
that means that if i go with a set of canadian tire no name shocks and the r1 coilovers...then the ride would be the same as the tein combo???? i don't think so
BUT end of story... if you want to cheap out... why not just cut your springs??? as long as you have great shocks... you should be ok
it's better to spend a little more now... then a lot more later
22-Apr-2003, 12:58 PM
#27
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Originally posted by cosmic
well... if it's a case of not having good shocks when installing coilovers.......
that means that if i go with a set of canadian tire no name shocks and the r1 coilovers...then the ride would be the same as the tein combo???? i don't think so
BUT end of story... if you want to cheap out... why not just cut your springs??? as long as you have great shocks... you should be ok
it's better to spend a little more now... then a lot more later
well... if it's a case of not having good shocks when installing coilovers.......
that means that if i go with a set of canadian tire no name shocks and the r1 coilovers...then the ride would be the same as the tein combo???? i don't think so
BUT end of story... if you want to cheap out... why not just cut your springs??? as long as you have great shocks... you should be ok
it's better to spend a little more now... then a lot more later
22-Apr-2003, 12:58 PM
#28
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Your just being stupid and sarcastic now.
He says the rear shock/strut "squeaks".
First of all.....
1. I don't own his car
2. don't know how low the car was BEFORE the car was raised back up
3. how long it was "low" before it was raised back up
4. how old and what kind of shock/strut is on there
5. if the coilovers were PROPERLY installed.
6. how he drives, or how the previous drive took care of the car
You know what? I'm going to get my friend with the Lude that replaced his "performance" set-up, with his STOCK struts and R1's/Tom's coilovers, to come by one week. He says he has a way better ride/handling than before. When he comes out, I'll ask him to take you for a ride. I know it's not a Civic, but at least you'd see how it handles now with these "shitty" coilovers.
cosmic, from a person that doesn't do hardy ANY of his own work on his car, you seem to know alot about what you are talking about. I've done installs on coilovers.......stuts.....both "performance" wise and "Shitty" (as I have heard them called). I've seen what both can do, and what they can't do. And from my personal opinion, for most people, (for what they want to do), the cheaper coilover/stock strut combo is more than enough for them.
Don't expect to get a set of Teins or CG and then be able to drive like a Formula 1 driver, cause it ain't gonna happen.
Sure, it may help, but I know for one thing.....if you were to take your car to a road race track, and you went up against a driver that knew what he was doing in a stock set up, he would hand your *** back to you on a plate. (not to say you don't know what you are doing)
A suspension ONLY helps a driver to handle the car better.....it's dosen't automatically make him a BETTER driver.
Buy you a drink the next time we're out?
He says the rear shock/strut "squeaks".
First of all.....
1. I don't own his car
2. don't know how low the car was BEFORE the car was raised back up
3. how long it was "low" before it was raised back up
4. how old and what kind of shock/strut is on there
5. if the coilovers were PROPERLY installed.
6. how he drives, or how the previous drive took care of the car
You know what? I'm going to get my friend with the Lude that replaced his "performance" set-up, with his STOCK struts and R1's/Tom's coilovers, to come by one week. He says he has a way better ride/handling than before. When he comes out, I'll ask him to take you for a ride. I know it's not a Civic, but at least you'd see how it handles now with these "shitty" coilovers.
cosmic, from a person that doesn't do hardy ANY of his own work on his car, you seem to know alot about what you are talking about. I've done installs on coilovers.......stuts.....both "performance" wise and "Shitty" (as I have heard them called). I've seen what both can do, and what they can't do. And from my personal opinion, for most people, (for what they want to do), the cheaper coilover/stock strut combo is more than enough for them.
Don't expect to get a set of Teins or CG and then be able to drive like a Formula 1 driver, cause it ain't gonna happen.
Sure, it may help, but I know for one thing.....if you were to take your car to a road race track, and you went up against a driver that knew what he was doing in a stock set up, he would hand your *** back to you on a plate.
(not to say you don't know what you are doing) A suspension ONLY helps a driver to handle the car better.....it's dosen't automatically make him a BETTER driver.
Buy you a drink the next time we're out?
22-Apr-2003, 01:10 PM
#29
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SPRINGS
SHOCKS/STRUTS
So after reading that, what do you think is a little more important?
Sure, you can say both, but if the springs/coilovers are in GOOD condition, and you struts are not, then what do you expect the car to handle like?
I'll say it one more time so everyone knows.....
For most poeple, and for what they want it to do, a more affordable set-up is MORE than enough.
Just make sure your shocks/struts are in GOOD woring order, and that you don't go too low.
A common way to lower a vehicle for improved handling or appearance is to install shorter springs. But be aware that the reduced travel and stiffer spring will cause some loss of ride quality. Too much lowering will cause a very harsh ride, poor handling and possible suspension damage.
Springs, linkage and pivot bushings allow the suspension to have motion. But something is needed to eliminate too much motion. Without proper control, the suspension motion will become excessive and even violent. The vehicle chassis (body) will wallow and pitch and the tires will constantly lose contact with the road surface.
Enter the shock absorber or damper. If the springs are the heart of the suspension, then shock absorbers can be considered the brains. Shocks use hydraulic friction to damp out or resist suspension motion. Springs are "load-sensitive" devices while shock absorbers react to suspension velocities. Shocks remove kinetic (or motion energy,) from the suspension and turn it into heat. That in turn is dissipated into the air. Shock absorbers work in two directions and are critical as working companions to the springs.
Compression (or the closing direction) works with the spring to reduce bottoming and help keep the tire in good contact with road surface.
MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPONENT, SHOCKS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOOD TIRE TO ROAD CONTACT.
The extension or opening phase is supposed to control the release of spring energy so that the vehicle chassis does not bounce, float or wallow around.
The challenge for shock and suspension engineers is designing a shock absorber that provides the correct amount of control for each of a wide variety of suspension actions.
Too much control and the vehicle will have a harsh ride and lack traction, too little control and the chassis and tires will bounce around too much.
Enter the shock absorber or damper. If the springs are the heart of the suspension, then shock absorbers can be considered the brains. Shocks use hydraulic friction to damp out or resist suspension motion. Springs are "load-sensitive" devices while shock absorbers react to suspension velocities. Shocks remove kinetic (or motion energy,) from the suspension and turn it into heat. That in turn is dissipated into the air. Shock absorbers work in two directions and are critical as working companions to the springs.
Compression (or the closing direction) works with the spring to reduce bottoming and help keep the tire in good contact with road surface.
MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPONENT, SHOCKS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GOOD TIRE TO ROAD CONTACT.
The extension or opening phase is supposed to control the release of spring energy so that the vehicle chassis does not bounce, float or wallow around.
The challenge for shock and suspension engineers is designing a shock absorber that provides the correct amount of control for each of a wide variety of suspension actions.
Too much control and the vehicle will have a harsh ride and lack traction, too little control and the chassis and tires will bounce around too much.
Sure, you can say both, but if the springs/coilovers are in GOOD condition, and you struts are not, then what do you expect the car to handle like?
I'll say it one more time so everyone knows.....
For most poeple, and for what they want it to do, a more affordable set-up is MORE than enough.
Just make sure your shocks/struts are in GOOD woring order, and that you don't go too low.
22-Apr-2003, 01:19 PM
#30
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Originally posted by PULOVR
cosmic, from a person that doesn't do hardy ANY of his own work on his car, you seem to know alot about what you are talking about. I've done installs on coilovers.......stuts.....both "performance" wise and "Shitty" (as I have heard them called). I've seen what both can do, and what they can't do. And from my personal opinion, for most people, (for what they want to do), the cheaper coilover/stock strut combo is more than enough for them.
Buy you a drink the next time we're out?
cosmic, from a person that doesn't do hardy ANY of his own work on his car, you seem to know alot about what you are talking about. I've done installs on coilovers.......stuts.....both "performance" wise and "Shitty" (as I have heard them called). I've seen what both can do, and what they can't do. And from my personal opinion, for most people, (for what they want to do), the cheaper coilover/stock strut combo is more than enough for them.
Buy you a drink the next time we're out?
um....i don't do my own work???
correction: i don't have jacks and /or a torque wrench
if i did, i would be doing a lot of this myself (and with Steve.. aka: braindamage)
also... i don't know if you noticed this the last time you were over... but i don't have a nice garage to work in....
so yes... i do pay to have it done for me as i can't bother to go through the hassles of moving... getting a garage.. and then buying all the tools needed. This isn't to say that i haven't worked on cars before
if this is cuz i want you to instal my tach... hey...i'm not an electrical type guy.... i hate wires and wiring... so why not leave that to the experts
and back to the point....
are you trying to say that the ride quality with r-1s and a good set of shocks will be the same if not better than a more expensive set up like tein or skunk2s???
if so, you are sadly mistaken
:cry:
please clarify your take on the r1s... cuz all i've read from you is a bunch of IF's
....they work well IF
...they ride quality is great IF
and yes you can buy me a drink..... but does that mean i have to sleep with you???
22-Apr-2003, 02:23 PM
#31
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Ok....let me try to clarify.
The "If's " are becuse MOST poeple blame the coilover before they even try to find the real reason for the rough ride.
I'll give you an example of a guy at work, and what he went through....
He bought a set of R1's/Tom's......got them installed.
(just so you know, he had a set of CUT factory springs on the car for 2 years before he installed the coilovers....with the stock struts....the car's tires were very close to the wheel wells...pretty well slammed).
Anyway, he did the install himself.
Within a week, he came back to me and started to complain that the ride **** from day one, and that they are making noise and bottoming out.
So I went out during my lunch break with one of the mechanics from the shop at work.
The guy had lowered them to the point that the front and back tires were just starting to get covered by the wheel well. When I reached under the car and tried to see the height, I noticed that the little set screws were missing from the sleeve, and that the pearch was all the way down to it's lowest setting. I also noticed that there was a bit of fluid leaking down the side of the strut.
Gee, I wonder why he has such a crappy ride.
I told him what I saw, and the machanic said the same thing.
Told him to bring it back up to stock height for now.....get a set of new struts.....get new set of set screws and this time put Lock Tite on them......and then after he did that, lower the car to around 1.3 --> 1.5 to start. Drive around for around 2 weeks like that and then let me know how it handles.
I also notinced that he left his bump stop uncut....therefore reducing the travel by an inch.
This is what I mean by the "If's".
You can't say that coilovers are **** unless you see/know what was done to the car before the install.
By the way....this guy at work is a morron. About a month later, I asked him how the ride was...he said is was way better when he did what I said. Then he told me that he noticed that the ride was getting more rough and bouncy lately. I was confused.....so I went out again with him.
Not only had the guy not only lowered it farther than the 1.3 --> 1.5 that I suggested to start with, but he lowered it to almost the same hight as before. He did at least change the struts, but HE DIDIN"T get the new set screws, or cut the bump stop. (I wonder how long the new struts are going to last him? :rolleye's: )
AND he wonders why he has such a rough/bouncy ride.
If coilovers are installed properly, and you have GOOD stuts/shocks, and you DON"T go lower than 2" (I would stick with between 1.5 --> 1.8), Then the ride is more than enough for most poeple.
The minute you go lower, you are putting the strut though excessive strain and risking damage to them.....not only them, but other parts of your suspension.
I heard it dozens of times...."my car is bouncy.....my car rides like ****.......these coilovers suck....ect...ect...ect...".
Only to find one or more things wrong with the car/install.
1. went too low
2. shocks/struts are old or are leaking
3. missing parts form the suspension and or coilover
4. they didn't use all the parts that were supposed to be used
5. the rest of the car is in general disrepair (which means to me that they don't car about it....therefore they must not car about the coilovers).
When you install them Corectly, with a suspension that is in good order, and you don't go too low, then they are wonerful to own. Hey, they may noy be Teins of CG or Skunks or whatever.....but like I said.....for most poeple they are MORE than enough.
Did that help?
The "If's " are becuse MOST poeple blame the coilover before they even try to find the real reason for the rough ride.
I'll give you an example of a guy at work, and what he went through....
He bought a set of R1's/Tom's......got them installed.
(just so you know, he had a set of CUT factory springs on the car for 2 years before he installed the coilovers....with the stock struts....the car's tires were very close to the wheel wells...pretty well slammed).
Anyway, he did the install himself.
Within a week, he came back to me and started to complain that the ride **** from day one, and that they are making noise and bottoming out.
So I went out during my lunch break with one of the mechanics from the shop at work.
The guy had lowered them to the point that the front and back tires were just starting to get covered by the wheel well. When I reached under the car and tried to see the height, I noticed that the little set screws were missing from the sleeve, and that the pearch was all the way down to it's lowest setting. I also noticed that there was a bit of fluid leaking down the side of the strut.
Gee, I wonder why he has such a crappy ride.
I told him what I saw, and the machanic said the same thing.
Told him to bring it back up to stock height for now.....get a set of new struts.....get new set of set screws and this time put Lock Tite on them......and then after he did that, lower the car to around 1.3 --> 1.5 to start. Drive around for around 2 weeks like that and then let me know how it handles.
I also notinced that he left his bump stop uncut....therefore reducing the travel by an inch.
This is what I mean by the "If's".
You can't say that coilovers are **** unless you see/know what was done to the car before the install.
By the way....this guy at work is a morron. About a month later, I asked him how the ride was...he said is was way better when he did what I said. Then he told me that he noticed that the ride was getting more rough and bouncy lately. I was confused.....so I went out again with him.
Not only had the guy not only lowered it farther than the 1.3 --> 1.5 that I suggested to start with, but he lowered it to almost the same hight as before. He did at least change the struts, but HE DIDIN"T get the new set screws, or cut the bump stop. (I wonder how long the new struts are going to last him? :rolleye's: )
AND he wonders why he has such a rough/bouncy ride.
If coilovers are installed properly, and you have GOOD stuts/shocks, and you DON"T go lower than 2" (I would stick with between 1.5 --> 1.8), Then the ride is more than enough for most poeple.
The minute you go lower, you are putting the strut though excessive strain and risking damage to them.....not only them, but other parts of your suspension.
I heard it dozens of times...."my car is bouncy.....my car rides like ****.......these coilovers suck....ect...ect...ect...".
Only to find one or more things wrong with the car/install.
1. went too low
2. shocks/struts are old or are leaking
3. missing parts form the suspension and or coilover
4. they didn't use all the parts that were supposed to be used
5. the rest of the car is in general disrepair (which means to me that they don't car about it....therefore they must not car about the coilovers).
When you install them Corectly, with a suspension that is in good order, and you don't go too low, then they are wonerful to own. Hey, they may noy be Teins of CG or Skunks or whatever.....but like I said.....for most poeple they are MORE than enough.
Did that help?
22-Apr-2003, 02:25 PM
#32
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Almost forgot......
Even if you do go with the higher priced models, you are going to have the SAME problems as the cheaper sets if you have one or more of these problems....
1. went too low
2. shocks/struts are old or are leaking
3. missing parts form the suspension and or coilover
4. they didn't use all the parts that were supposed to be used
5. the rest of the car is in general disrepair (which means to me that they don't car about it....therefore they must not car about the coilovers).
Even if you do go with the higher priced models, you are going to have the SAME problems as the cheaper sets if you have one or more of these problems....
1. went too low
2. shocks/struts are old or are leaking
3. missing parts form the suspension and or coilover
4. they didn't use all the parts that were supposed to be used
5. the rest of the car is in general disrepair (which means to me that they don't car about it....therefore they must not car about the coilovers).
22-Apr-2003, 02:28 PM
#33
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if this is cuz i want you to instal my tach... hey...i'm not an electrical type guy.... i hate wires and wiring... so why not leave that to the experts
Nothing like that cosmic.......you know that I don't like to work in the cold, and right now with the pain I still get while bending over trying to work on a car, it's kinda hard for me to do it right now.
I said I would, and I will.
22-Apr-2003, 02:38 PM
#34
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Originally posted by PULOVR
No, it has nothing to do with that.....it has everything to do with you wanting my lip.
No, it has nothing to do with that.....it has everything to do with you wanting my lip.
didn't you see my last post in exterior forum?
22-Apr-2003, 02:59 PM
#35
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I thought you liked my lip?
You know what you are? You are a lip chaser.
Yeah, I saw your other post....lip looks nice.
but not better than mine, and you know it.
: poke fun:
So do you now understand what I wrote above?
You know what you are? You are a lip chaser.
Yeah, I saw your other post....lip looks nice.
but not better than mine, and you know it. : poke fun:
So do you now understand what I wrote above?
22-Apr-2003, 06:44 PM
#39
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Originally posted by cosmic
are you trying to say that the ride quality with r-1s and a good set of shocks will be the same if not better than a more expensive set up like tein or skunk2s???
if so, you are sadly mistaken
are you trying to say that the ride quality with r-1s and a good set of shocks will be the same if not better than a more expensive set up like tein or skunk2s???
if so, you are sadly mistaken
Meaning, both will break you *** and knock the fillings out of your teeth.
But the QUALITY CONTROL is very DIFFERENT.
eg. R-1s probably have a +/- 50 on the spring rating, so springs that should be rated at 350 all around, you could have spring rates could vary from 300 - 400 all around
eg. Skunk2s would have a 350 spring rate all around
Higher end springs would take into account things like how the powder coating on the spring changes the springs rates and thats why Eibach says that each spring is individually tested.
Where as the R-1s would be made in a big batch then all be powerdercoated then boxed and shipped off.
23-Apr-2003, 12:42 AM
#40
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Yeah, that too.
Thanks JSK.
Suspension height is a BIG factor with a coilovers ride comfort, along with a good WORKING strut/shock.
The lower you go, the less of a "comfort" zone you'll have.
Thanks JSK.
Suspension height is a BIG factor with a coilovers ride comfort, along with a good WORKING strut/shock.
The lower you go, the less of a "comfort" zone you'll have.
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