Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

which combo should be better or make better power

Old 02-Jun-2006, 12:58 PM
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which combo should be better or make better power

should I go for a genuine Mugen / Spoon ECU "not Chip"

or

Cams with springs / retain.

Which Combo should work better or produce more power?
I have a B18C5 right now
If I get an ECU, I won't upgrade Cams
If I get Cams, I won't upgrade ECU
simple as that
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 01:35 PM
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IMO get cams, work on your internals and then when you have cash do your ECU.
I think that would be the better way to go.
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 02:15 PM
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if you get cams.. you need to have some type of tuning.. or else it'll run like crap.

An aftermarket program for your ecu is all good and dandy.. but IMO dynotuning with a wideband is the best form. You'll have to convert to obd1 though.. if you don't want to you'll have to use a hack. With a bit of headwork and tuning you'll be seeing very nice gains on a c5
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 02:24 PM
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Anybody have numbers with a
genuine mugen / spoon ECU?
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by chris_si98
if you get cams.. you need to have some type of tuning.. or else it'll run like crap.

An aftermarket program for your ecu is all good and dandy.. but IMO dynotuning with a wideband is the best form. You'll have to convert to obd1 though.. if you don't want to you'll have to use a hack. With a bit of headwork and tuning you'll be seeing very nice gains on a c5

an aftermarket program for my ECU?
but then as I mentioned, I'm not chipping my ECU
I'm getting a whole genuine ecu to plug and play
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 02:55 PM
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Doesn't the Mugen/Spoon ECU remap the fuel map, VTEC cross over and redline? It is a genuine ECU but still consider "chipped" which I see no difference than someone who knows how to chip ECU.

I am not knocking the product, but out of the two, I would probably get the cam because you can't "rechip" their ECU and it is neither a piggyback or a stand alone unit but cost just as the same, if not, more.

If you have a stock C5, you can probably run only stage 1 or 2 cams, without changing other things like springs and whatnot. I would get the cams, do a dyno tune and tell the tuner to rechip the ECU.

Everything might still end up in roughly the same ball park figure.
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 03:20 PM
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you upgrade cams, u chip the ECU to work with it...

what mods do you have now?
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 03:26 PM
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currently I have bolts on stuff
JDM ITR Header
T1R catback
Shaved Head
Port Intake Mani. / Throttle Body
FPR
LSD
OBD1 with P28 Chipped

thats it for engine wise

If Cams, I will be getting the Buddy Club Stage 3 / 4 in package~
any other suggestion?
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 04:14 PM
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That setup is screaming for a set of good cams. Well, along with good springs and over valvetrain upgrades.
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 04:32 PM
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p28 chipped with what? By who? If you have a p28 chipped already why buy a spoon or mugen ecu? IMO getting a tuner to dynotune your p28 will yield more power and it won't be that expensive since your ecu is already chipped
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 04:33 PM
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u running a C5 right???

the ITR header is a good upgrade for like a B16, if your wanting to make a bit more power... definately get a new header

thats my opinion though...
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 04:37 PM
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Try a 4 - 2 - 1 header. It will provide the best exhaust flow than 4 - 1.
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 06:11 PM
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well it depends, you are not gonna see massive torque from a 4-2-1 i would rather go 4-1 since the C5 has the upper charge once VTEC engages!
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Old 02-Jun-2006, 10:10 PM
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should I go for a set of Toda C?
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Old 03-Jun-2006, 07:47 PM
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4-2-1 promotes better exhaust gas overall flow. But anyway.

Do you know what kind of lift/duration you want? If you do, you don't really have to go with Toda C, lots of choices out there.
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Old 04-Jun-2006, 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Nova_Dust
4-2-1 promotes better exhaust gas overall flow. But anyway.

Do you know what kind of lift/duration you want? If you do, you don't really have to go with Toda C, lots of choices out there.

That is the most untrue and idiotic statement ive ever heard. 4-1 does not flow better than a 4-2-1, that being said a 4-1 doesnt flow better than 4-2-1.


This is due to how the exhaust pulses are tuned for a specific engine and exhaust system. The gas flow pulses are waves and will bounce back with any change in diameter or restriction met and then bounce back once they hit the head itself. You want to tune/time these pulses to suck the next pulse out of the head which will also pull the next intake charge into the head during valve overlap and fill the cylinder better.

The larger tube diameter will flow more air which is generally good for top end but hurt midrange.

These are all generalizations and will depend on the exact system in the car- engine, header, and exhaust.

I love how some people on this board know nothing of engine theory and just blab their face off all on hear say and nothing on experience.


You want to know the best option for your setup....

Good port job
good header (i.e DTR, Rage, RMF)
Skunk2 Stage 1, (why would you want toda cs if your running stock piston compression in the bottom end.... A good cam choice would be skunk2 stage 1s or buddy club 3s.
68mm throttle body (dont say this is too big) ive dynoed more hp on sock motors with a port match 70mm throttle body.
Dont bother wasting your money on stupid things like a Genuine spoon or mugen ecu, WTF is with that. Get a good tuner, chip it with crome and some dyno time and you will see more results with that than anything else.


If you have have any more questions pm me, I have built many large power N/A motors and can help you wiht any of your problems.
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Old 04-Jun-2006, 06:21 PM
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Mike, I agree with you. I read exhaust pulse theory but forgot how to reword it. But that article stated that OEM 4-1 manifold was a cheaper way of mass producing the header. Where 4-2-1 promotes better exhaust pulse, as an overall performance.

I am happy that someone can correct what I said.
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