imported_magicguy

should I go for a genuine Mugen / Spoon ECU "not Chip"

or

Cams with springs / retain.

Which Combo should work better or produce more power?
I have a B18C5 right now
If I get an ECU, I won't upgrade Cams
If I get Cams, I won't upgrade ECU
simple as that

imported_ITK

IMO get cams, work on your internals and then when you have cash do your ECU.
I think that would be the better way to go.

chris_si98

if you get cams.. you need to have some type of tuning.. or else it'll run like crap.

An aftermarket program for your ecu is all good and dandy.. but IMO dynotuning with a wideband is the best form. You'll have to convert to obd1 though.. if you don't want to you'll have to use a hack. With a bit of headwork and tuning you'll be seeing very nice gains on a c5

imported_magicguy

Anybody have numbers with a
genuine mugen / spoon ECU?

imported_magicguy

an aftermarket program for my ECU?
but then as I mentioned, I'm not chipping my ECU
I'm getting a whole genuine ecu to plug and play

Nova_Dust

Doesn't the Mugen/Spoon ECU remap the fuel map, VTEC cross over and redline? It is a genuine ECU but still consider "chipped" which I see no difference than someone who knows how to chip ECU.

I am not knocking the product, but out of the two, I would probably get the cam because you can't "rechip" their ECU and it is neither a piggyback or a stand alone unit but cost just as the same, if not, more.

If you have a stock C5, you can probably run only stage 1 or 2 cams, without changing other things like springs and whatnot. I would get the cams, do a dyno tune and tell the tuner to rechip the ECU.

Everything might still end up in roughly the same ball park figure.

Chigga1

you upgrade cams, u chip the ECU to work with it...

what mods do you have now?

imported_magicguy

currently I have bolts on stuff
JDM ITR Header
T1R catback
Shaved Head
Port Intake Mani. / Throttle Body
FPR
LSD
OBD1 with P28 Chipped

thats it for engine wise

If Cams, I will be getting the Buddy Club Stage 3 / 4 in package~
any other suggestion?

Nova_Dust

That setup is screaming for a set of good cams. Well, along with good springs and over valvetrain upgrades.

chris_si98

p28 chipped with what? By who? If you have a p28 chipped already why buy a spoon or mugen ecu? IMO getting a tuner to dynotune your p28 will yield more power and it won't be that expensive since your ecu is already chipped

Chigga1

u running a C5 right???

the ITR header is a good upgrade for like a B16, if your wanting to make a bit more power... definately get a new header

thats my opinion though...

Nova_Dust

Try a 4 - 2 - 1 header. It will provide the best exhaust flow than 4 - 1.

Chigga1

well it depends, you are not gonna see massive torque from a 4-2-1 i would rather go 4-1 since the C5 has the upper charge once VTEC engages!

imported_magicguy

should I go for a set of Toda C?

Nova_Dust

4-2-1 promotes better exhaust gas overall flow. But anyway.

Do you know what kind of lift/duration you want? If you do, you don't really have to go with Toda C, lots of choices out there.

1sloweg

That is the most untrue and idiotic statement ive ever heard. 4-1 does not flow better than a 4-2-1, that being said a 4-1 doesnt flow better than 4-2-1.


This is due to how the exhaust pulses are tuned for a specific engine and exhaust system. The gas flow pulses are waves and will bounce back with any change in diameter or restriction met and then bounce back once they hit the head itself. You want to tune/time these pulses to suck the next pulse out of the head which will also pull the next intake charge into the head during valve overlap and fill the cylinder better.

The larger tube diameter will flow more air which is generally good for top end but hurt midrange.

These are all generalizations and will depend on the exact system in the car- engine, header, and exhaust.

I love how some people on this board know nothing of engine theory and just blab their face off all on hear say and nothing on experience.


You want to know the best option for your setup....

Good port job
good header (i.e DTR, Rage, RMF)
Skunk2 Stage 1, (why would you want toda cs if your running stock piston compression in the bottom end.... A good cam choice would be skunk2 stage 1s or buddy club 3s.
68mm throttle body (dont say this is too big) ive dynoed more hp on sock motors with a port match 70mm throttle body.
Dont bother wasting your money on stupid things like a Genuine spoon or mugen ecu, WTF is with that. Get a good tuner, chip it with crome and some dyno time and you will see more results with that than anything else.


If you have have any more questions pm me, I have built many large power N/A motors and can help you wiht any of your problems.

Nova_Dust

Mike, I agree with you. I read exhaust pulse theory but forgot how to reword it. But that article stated that OEM 4-1 manifold was a cheaper way of mass producing the header. Where 4-2-1 promotes better exhaust pulse, as an overall performance.

I am happy that someone can correct what I said.