SiR-Racer

heh

any reason why this is true?

iamfob

any 7th gen owner beside me visit 7th Gen Civic.com if u do, then come to canada east forum...i am there most of the time than here cuz i learned more info about my car there but if i need info from gen 4 to 6 i come here

my username in 7thgencivic is also "iamfob"

redfox

I was relocating the servers. It's back up.

redfox

That's not true. STOCK, the two cars are the same. Now, mods, that's different. The common consensus is that the K20 has more usable powerband, whereas the B16 is still superior when it comes to flow characteristics, which means high end power is easier to obtain.

In the other words, the K20 is much more suited for road racing whereas the B16 is will remain the king when it comes to drag racing aloneside the b18c.

That aside. I'm talking strictly about K20a used in the SiR. Here is a general break down of how the three K20s are different from each other.

K20 in SiR
the base model K20a, single stage intake, i-VTEC, downside? Plastic intake manifold. Upside? i-VTEC!

K20 in RSX
baseline K20a like the SiR, but with dual stage plastic intake. downside? Maybe not enough power for the weight of the car. Upside? dual stage intake bolsters higher torque numbers than the K20 in the SiR. God knows the RSX needs it with the added weight.

K20 in RSX-S
K20a with higher compression, more aggressive valve profile and timing, re-enforced pistons, single stage aluminum cast intake manifold done with super fine grain sand to ensure smoothness of surface. Downside? Honda should have given us the 220hp version. Upside? Aluminum cast intake manifold is boost friendly.

My conclusion of the 2002 SiR and the 99-00 SiR (with I/H/E): in a straight line , the B16 will hold his own provided you stay in high cam profile and probably have a leg up from the K20, for most of us, it will come down to the driver; on a road course, the K20 will come out on top for 3 reasons: mid range power, variable assist electric power steering and body rigidity.

Mind you all three of these advantages that the K20 has over the B16 can be equalized by using a VTEC controller, removing the power steering and adding extra structural braces to the car. But then, we are not comparing apples to apples. So.... hope that's a fair comparison.

Buff 'n Stuff

umm... the intake manifold on my car's aluminum, not plastic.

Where are you getting your information from, just out of curiosity?

redfox

I could be wrong about that I guess. I know for sure the RSX intake manifold is plastic. Hmm....Is it black in color?

Buff 'n Stuff

It's silver, and it was quite cold and metallic like when I went and checked it.

I read your post and I thought that it was aluminum, but I had to go check it out just to be sure.

BTW... Just guessing, but I'd think that there'd be more benefit to the intake being plastic, since it's lighter in weight???

redfox

K, cool. THanx for correcting. Should have paid more attention. Interesting, so the only K20 with a plastic manifold is in the RSX and that's because of the dual stage intake. I guess if they make the dual stage aluminum, it'll weight too much?? Well, you can make aluminum smoother than plastic for one thing, but most importantly, you can't exactly boost with a plastic manifold. Oh, and I guess the mods port and polish doesn't really apply to plastic manifolds. Thinking of it this way, I would much rather having a aluminum manifold even though the plastic one might save you a few pounds.

SiR-Racer

sounds reasonable enough for me

Canindian

just a quick question where you located "redfox"

the picture of your car seems like its mississauga

let me know thanks

Russel

shepworldwide

not try'n to ***** but this statement is total bunk!
both vechiles are suited for road racing! the b16a2 with it's almost perfect rod/stroke ratio and it's ability to rev so freely is well suited right out of the box for course racing!! besides that civics r known for their handle'n...
not for their speed..unless you have tons of money to throw at it!!
and if you do then what about the guy running the almighty b18c5??
sorry 2 *****

redfox

Hey, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. I'm glad you stated your opinion. No need to shoot me in the foot. Anyways, take it easy man, not every debate is a yelling match.

not try'n to ***** but this statement is total bunk!.... not cool.

Sure the b16a2 have the rod/stroke ratio down to the T, everyone knows that. Hence my conclusion for ultimate top end.

But you should compare the two engines horse power/torque curve before you start bashing me.

I never said that the old SiR was NOT suited for road racing. I said the new SiR was MORE suited. So please, read my posting carefully before you are trying to protect the old SiR.

Better mid range, more torque, more rigid body, is the reason why REALTIME racing has switched from the pre-2001 ITR to the new ITR (or as it would be called here RSX-R). And guess what? The new SiR is based on the same frame as well, and more or less the same engine. (Don't be quoting me on this, I know there are differences, I'm just summarizing.)

Sure the older SiR is good for track, but technology advances and improvements are made, accept them.

Anyway, please read more carefully next time before you bash.

shepworldwide

#1 not a yelling match, just a fourm chat.

"on a road course, the K20 will come out on top for 3 reasons: mid range power, variable assist electric power steering and body rigidity." you wrote this correct?

i disagree on this also...... http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t69739.html


heres 1 more
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t69400.html

racing is 90% driver, and my point is both of these cars are great and 1 could hang with the other under any condition...

redfox

YOu know, I know a prelude racer with just as many wins. Would you call the prelude a better road course car?

Sure driver is very important. But I think you are now going off topic, I never was comparing drivers.

So, provide TECHNICAL information to back up your claims as to why the two SiRs are on par, not how well a driver has done. MAn, Honda must be getting dumber dumping all this money into R&D and only managed to be where they were at before.

shepworldwide

the new sir may be TECHNICALY better..but it's not @ the point where ur gonna blow the doors off an older sir and claim a win because of "3 reasons: mid range power, variable assist electric power steering and body rigidity" which is why i said driver..
both sir's are still the same et wise (give or take) if ur road or drag....