BigD

Hope you can help guys, I really need this thing back on the road tomorrow and I can't sort out the timing. I've followed the procedure for installing it, tensioning etc. But I can't get the timing marks to line up! I've tried it one tooth one way or the other but then it ends up being WAY off. Now it's off by like half a tooth. Is this fine or do I have to keep troubleshooting? If the latter, what can you suggest? Is it a defective belt (Continental)?

What it looks like:





Crank is at TDC, the mark on the cover is in the middle of the 3 dots:

chris_v2

woah.... hold on.

Why the hell is bottom timing cover on????

You cannot be off half a tooth, its either you are off a tooth or not. Depending on the amount of slack left between the two cam gears, that can give you the extra 'half tooth' you need. If there is too much slack it will give the illusion that it is not lined up.

Try putting a 12mm wrench on the intake cam gear and little tapping the wrench so it takes up some play in the belt and that it looks like the gears line up. If there is little slack between the belt and its off a TOOTH not a half tooth, then take off the belt and re-set. Really... its not rocket science, you're lucky its not a hydraulic tensioner or you'd be pretty fuct, lol.

If it comes down to it, just slap the valve cover back on without any of the access. belts or timing covers on and start the car up. If it runs fine then you know the timing is good.

If I was busy today I'd offer to give you a hand.. cause I know how it feels, but I'm can't. Hopefully you figure it out

chris_v2

oh ****.. i didn't even look at the marks on the last picturel.. that is NOT TDC! that is 16 BTDC. 0TDC is is the white mark all by its self thats off by about 2" or so..

Man.. no offense, but you shouldn't of started a job like this if you needed the car for tomorrow..

BigD

Well it's not the end of the world if this is not done today, I can get a ride if I have to but it should really get done today.

I put the bottom cover on to double check the crank alignment, I can take it back off anytime.

I dunno man I don't have any white marks on my pulley, they're probably long gone. I think you're right though, there's another divot to the right of those 3 (although I'm 99% sure that's how I set it to begin with, before taking the belt off, and the cam gears were perfectly square... ). Ah ****. K I'll try it again on the other mark.

One thing I don't get though is that mark on the intake gear is not at 90 degrees. Like if I line it up at 90 with the block mark, then the "UP" isn't up. If I make the gear vertical, the mark is off...

chris_v2

after looking at your cam marks, i think its set. I would take up the slack in the belt by knocking the exhaust cam gear over to the left (so your 'loosening' the cam gear bolt) so that the middle marks line up a bit more even. But it looks lined up for me.

There is a mark on the crank gear you line up once the crank pulley is off. Use that mark to line up the crank, dont use the pulley

BigD

Thanks dude, I'll have a look. The manual didn't mention any marks on the crank so I didn't look. But it also said the lower cover is only held on by 2 bolts...

MPR

Also DON'T FORGET the small retainer washer that goes on the crank shaft after the belt and BEFORE the lower cover, it goes on one way (it has a taper, it tapers outwards) this holds the belt on and prevents it from walking off the gears which WILL HAPPEN if you forget this little part. Just thought I'd warn you.

Did my belt on my b16 back in the winter, took me about 6 hours, off and on. I researched and made sure I knew exactly how to do everything before I did it. I suggest next time you dig into a job like this you do the same.

What you should have done to make this really easy to line up is this:

With the crank at tdc, and before removing the old belt; I marked a tooth on each cam gear where they met the belt, and marked a tooth on the crank where it met the belt. I then also marked the belt where I marked the tooth on each gear. After removing the belt, I then marked one tooth on the new belt and counted the teeth between marks and marked the two other points on the new belt. When I slipped the new belt on, I simply lined up the belt and cams with the marks on the belt. You can also lock the cam gears with pins so they will not turn on you. After that, I tensioned the belt and turned the engine over by hand gently to ensure the belt was staying on and there was no interference. After that, installed that little retainer, then the lower cover, then the crank pulley...etc...

Hope that helps you out.

Good luck.

chris_v2

wtf kinda manual is that?

I believe theres 4 bolts holding the bottom cover on.. there's 2 alone behind the crank pulley.


Anyways, take off the pulley/cover and look for the two marks (you'll see them). Line them up and then do the cam gears

BigD

Thanks guys! Chris, thanks a ton man! Did it like you said, cam marks lined up, buttoned it up, runs like a champ! Kinda wish I wasn't in such a hurry to test it out and adjusted the valves. Oh well, next weekend. At least I can drive it again. My gears still don't look "square", like up isn't really UP, but the cam marks are right on the money, both with the block, with each other, and retainer holes line up perfect.

Thanks again!

chris_v2

Glad you figured it out.. Word of advise.. next time you try and tackle a semi-large job like this, do some research before and make sure oyu have a GOOD manual. Or look at the DIY's posted online.

And yeah sometimes the up marks are a tad off which can be a bit confusing. On some cars I just mark the gear to the backing cover while they are up at TDC like vtec thunder said, so that i have a good known reference to use.

BigD

I thought I did... I've read the sequence many times and I've been wrenching for a while so I expected there to be steps where I'd have to improvise (usually when a manual says "remove bolt X" it's a 20 step process involving trying various wrenches or socket combinations to reach the biatch, bashing knuckles and scraping skin, holding your breath trying to think of a swear word that would encompass your anger and failing to do so, and eventually succeeding). The only other time I did a T belt was on an M20 325 with one cam and it went smoothly for the most part (well the manual said to remove the pulley hub which is torqued on at 278 lbs, but I figured out that you can slip the belt past it by just removing the pulley off of it).

Oh well, it runs, me happy, thanks again! Now I just have to get the trans fixed so it doesn't pop out of 5th and this will be a terrific little daily.

BigD

Yeah, I thought I knew what I was doing getting into this. I just didn't see anyone mentioning a problem like this (even after I encountered it, I couldn't find anything). This is my first time doing a DOHC belt and in hind-sight I should have not been lazy and marked the alignment but it didn't even occur to me since the hardware marks were so clear).

BigD

Just thought of a good example of this - when I replaced the starter on this thing: "Remove starter power and signal cables. Remove the two bolts holding the starter. Remove starter. Installation is the reverse of the removal." If I had paper absorbent enough for my crap, I'd print those instructions to wipe my *** with.

Ok I'll stop postwhoring now and go relax.

LEITNER

i am curious... did you have the head resurfaced? decking the head .020 - .030 will retard cam timing causing your marks to be off.