motti

And how would you punish him? 100 lashes? Or will just 50 do?

The cop will get punished same as you or I. Assuming he is charged with careless, he may get convicted of that, or it may be plea-bargained down to follow-too-close, just like you or I. He'll get fined, lose some points, just like you or I. He may get an insurance increase, just like you or I.

Unlike you or I, he'll also end up explaining to his employer what happened, and he may face additional employment-rleated repercussions. I doubt he would get fired, nor do I think he should be fired simply for getting into an accident. If the guy was ALWAYS getting into accidents or his driving conduct at the time was outrageous and reprehensible, such as being drunk while on duty and driving, then that would be another thing.

I also don't think he should be expected to pay for the damages to the cruiser or anything else simply for being in an accident. Think about it - these guys are on the road for most of their 12-hour shift, rain or shine, dry pavement or ice, heavy traffic or light. When the roads get bad, most of us have the option to stay home, but these guys spend even more time on the road in bad weather because of all the accidents that happen then.

So no, given the time they spend in their cruisers driving in all sorts of weather and traffic conditions, I don't expect cops to drive and be accident-free, and I don't expect them to be fired or penalized for having one every now and then.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

motti, thing is... ok... my car has NEVER been winter driven since it was new, and I'm the only owner. If my car ever got totalled, there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever find another one like it. Adding up all the bills, say including the purchase price of the brand new base sedan, there is about $40K in the car... $23 purcahse price, and $17 mods (conservative estimate).

I think I should get MORE cuz my car is super minty and all my mods should be replaced. Like I can prolly find a sedan for say 10K now... but the thing is... it's NOT MINE, and it's NOT ONE OWNER anymore. So right away, I LOSE!!!! big time. To me, the fact my car is MY CAR and only MY CAR is worth WAY more to me than insurance would pay. Sux0rz to used cars

Hence the reason my car is a driveway queen year round... I now put less than 3000 kms on the car annually. Basically 3 trips to TO and a lil city stroll on the weekend.

motti

Yeah, but now you're asking to have a price premium put on emotional sentimentality. Who gets to judge what that price premium should be?

If you have a car that is in above average condition, and you can prove it, you can negotiate with the insurance company to increase your payout to the upper end of the payout range for that model.

Also, you mention $17K mods. Have these been declared to the insurance company? Has the effect of these mods to your car been officially valuated and documented, and your insurance premiums adjsuted accordingly? If not, then why should the insurance company pay out on something other than the base car that they know about and that they have based their premiums on?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I told my insurance co about the mods, and they were like "SO??" and I asked if I should have the car appraised so they can adjust my premiums... and they said... if you want you can have it appraised and just keep it for your records, or we can keep it on file here as a record of things you have on the car should it ever get stolen, but she said it won't make a difference in the price of insurance (premium). So yeah, once the car comes outta storage, I'll prolly have concepts on wheels appraise the car and I'll photodocument everything I have on it and hand it over to the insurance co. for their records... just cuz I dun have reciepts for everything anymore.

The sentimental value isn't quite it... it's the fact that it's a ONE owner car with a full history. We all know the market places a premium on documented one owner cars. Thing is, if I buy the same car agian... well, since they don't make the 98 models anymore, I'd have to buy used, and well... then it's not a one owner... then it's a TWO owner. And the history is unknown to me. You gotta understand... I've been EVERYWHERE this car has been. I've seen every bolt that was taken off the car... cuz I was the one taking it off. In other words, if I gotta replace the car, I LOSE all that knowledge of where the car has been.

edit: and yeah... lashing the careless officer will be satisfactory

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

oh, and considering how attached I am to my car... you can imagine how careful I am with it... driving it, storing it... where I park it, etc. so really, ME driving the car is 0 risk to the company. I'm not worried about me... I'm worried about 1. other idiots (which is partially why the car sees no winter - other drivers forget how to drive in snow) and 2. thieves

yet, my premium doesn't get adjusted for my "carefullness" neither... I still pay the same as some reckless 24 yr old would just cuz we were born in the same year.

imported_GoldBadge

Look at this **** man!!!!!









You don't think that's a big deal? You think he should just forget about it and move on? The cop jeapordized his life and he should get compensated. I didn't say he should get "massive cash payout" but something is definitely in order and its up to a judge to decide what that is. And if a judge decides it is nothing, then so be it. I'm just stating my opinion on the issue.

What if he had never been in an accident before? Now he's seen by insurance companies as having written off a car. So he's most likely going to have higher premiums on his insurance for years to come because of another person's negligence.

motti

I see a simple accident in those pictures, perhaps one a little more unusual than is the usual fare, but still just a simple accident. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't see anything about dead or injured people in that accident, nor is there any report of anyone being hospitalized as a result. Just a bit of seatbelt rash and the usual soreness and stiffness that accompany many accidents but which also usually goes away within a few short days.

It doesn't matter that a person has never been in an accident before. Are you suggesting that drivers experiencing their first-time-ever accident should receive payments like some sort of tooth-fairy? If that were the case, look out because I can see a whole lot of gold-diggers setting themselves up to get into accidents just for the supposed "pain-and-suffering" payoff.

In absence of serious injury or death, accidents rarely become the cause of lifelong trauma, and if a simple accident should cause such trauma, there is something else wrong in the picture.

On your last point, if a driver is not deemed at fault for an accident according to Ontario fault determination rules, that accident will by law have no effect on that person's insurance insurance rates.

I fully support recent changes in government insurance laws restricting the right to sue in such instances. Part of the reason for huge insurance hikes in the past few years have been the rising law suits and alleged "therapy" costs driven by potential pain-and-suffering awards.

Last year I was in an accident with a hit-and-run driver fleeing from another seconds-earlier hit-and-run. The tow truck driver handed me business cards for each of a "preferred" body shop, soft-tissue therapy clinic, paralegal, and injury-claims lawyer, along with a saying sue sue sue and don't forget to nudge-nudge wink-wink pitch get therapy to back up a law suit. But I didn't have a scratch or a bruiseon me. Still, the tow truck driver said that this didn't matter.

That's why rates were going up, because of the vulture industry of opportunists and faux-victims that surrounds auto accidents. And no, I didn't sue.

sanjay

it amazes me at the amount of stupidity i see in this thread

(apart from the poster above me)

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

the "stupidity" you see is an expression of the years of abuse that we (as automotive enthusiasts) have taken from the police. now that we see a simple accident like this, we want the officer to be treated the same way they would treat US if WE were the cause of said accident. honestly... WHAT do you think would have happened if gonein60minutes had been the one to rearend the stopped cars?? OMGHI2U, you were street racing, your car is modified, you were drunk and smoking crack at the time of the accident... all as they dust coke over the scene of the accident and say it popped outta his trunk as he hit the car in front of him... and selling coke is how he finances his street racing career. CASE CLOSED as far as they're concerned. LOL Now, seeing as how it's a cop who nailed him... well NOW it's just a simple accident!! I mean... could have happened to anyone, right?

I'd love to see now if gonein60minutes' rates go up, or if his policy gets cancelled. Or how much he gets for his car. What GoldBadge is saying is totally true though... now he has a major claim against his policy and his car is gone. If that was me, I would have **** myself right at the scene. I mean... say even if insurance does cover my car and my parts to my satisfaction... the # of hours I have into the car in labour is insane. Just over the last 3 weeks, I put about 25 hours into retrofitting BMW bixenon projectors into my headlights. And that's 25 hrs for ONE light!!! And that's ONE mod... there are say... prolly about 100 mods on the car. Granted not every mod took 50 hrs to complete... but you get what I'm saying.

SiR JP

Wow, that's a horrible looking crash. My condolences to you about your baby, but at least no one was hurt.

Now, regarding this ongoing argument about compensation and "retribution" towards cops, here's my 0.02

Compensation: I'm with Motti on this. Compensation for any therapy is warranted, as is money from the insurance company so therein60min can get a new car... but the notion of this being a "traumatic" experience, thereby worthy of more money, is ridiculous.

To those who seem to think this is the way to go, I'm sure you wouldn't want this system in place were you the cause of an accident (and accidents can happen to anyone, anytime, regardless of how good a driver you are/think you are). More likely, however, do you really want to pay for everyone else's payouts, which is what we do with our insurance rates? Aren't they high enough as it is?

Cover the injuries, therapy, and property damage, that's it.

Now, regarding the cop, I understand how a lot of you feel, and I agree that this particular cop needs to be punished for his actions (and if it takes a civil suit in order to bring this issue to light, so be it), but to suggest going out of your way to "f*ck him over" isn't right. Impressions of our little hobby will NEVER change if we take the attitude that we need to wage war on the cops. I realize that a lot of the **** they pull is aggravating, and it should be fought, but we have to take it upon ourselves to have a little class in doing so.

EL_CIVIC

I agree with barbullo on this one..

if they had the chance to screw us over they would....not like they havent already...

n1_taboo

n1_taboo

i say sue, the Toronto Police, u should have ur justice, man, they would give u a ticket if u hit them, for following too close cops gotta be tought a lesson dont get ****ed on ur own laws...simple...

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

funny... they seem to go out of their way to **** us over... so why not return the favour???

And you're right, impressions of our lil hobby will NEVER change period, regardless of the level of "class" we take in anything. There is always ppl who will not understand, or will just straight hate on our 'disposable' income.

scarlemthug

..........

n1_taboo

what u have for a motor? b16a? part out?

imported_ITK

that was really a nice EK....


I used to always drive on that street (dufferin) in the morning going to College, on my way to the 401..... on the other side of the street (where the accident happened) I ALWAYS saw a car pulled over.... A LOT of them were modded ... A LOT.....
Noticed that a lot of cops are around that street in the morning...

i'm 100% with bbarbulo on this one.... what happened to treating people the way you want to be treated..... a cop would treat you like dirt if it was the other way around.... and if you hit a cop car and have it ended up like that...... buddy....you're going to HELL.... cops would slap you with so many court dates, you may as well move into the court room..... all i'm saying is for the first time... i would like to see a cop in our possition.... i wonder how he would feel....

SiR JP

But this is exactly my point. Again, I do understand where you and bbarbulo are coming from, but I just feel like aside from making sure the cop is made responsible for his actions through whatever legal action is necessary, no more should be done.

Then again, ask me how I feel about this should I ever be so unfortunate as to get nailed for a "loud exhaust" or some other b.s., and I may change my tune.

Oh, and bbarbulo, you said you don't think things will ever change? I disagree. It's a purely generational thing. While not all cops may be baby-boomers, the people running the show certainly are, and as a generation thay have complete disdain for anything it is younger people do. I wonder how many of them tuned/modified muscle cars and raced those in the 50s-70s?

Personally, I feel that in 10-20 years time, sport compacts will no longer get targeted (because it will be people of that scene starting to be "in charge"), but whatever it is that the kids are doing then will get targeted. It's sad.

imported_ITK

SiR JP I understand what you're saying.... but arn't cops supposed to set the example...they represent law and justice...

SiR JP

Yeah, they should, unfortunately they all too often let their prejudices (or perhaps orders) get in the way of their judgment.

Personally, I don't think the admittably reprehensible actions of cops justifies any sort of personal vendetta (different from getting justified financial restitution and seeking appopriate punishment for the cop, of course) on our parts. I do believe, though, like I said, that they need to be hit in the shorts via legislation and so on. Maybe therein60min should write to the Toronto Star? It's just a thought.