Project SHAVE
15-Jun-2004, 08:46 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Originally posted by Capo
sure... but then whats the point in modifying ur car... if u have to stay the same as everybody elses.... u cant do this cant do that.... if i was a white mom with 2 kids in the backseat driving a minivan with the blue cover on my licence plate or wit blueish headlights or even a loud muffler i doubt i would be pulled over let alone ticketed...
sure... but then whats the point in modifying ur car... if u have to stay the same as everybody elses.... u cant do this cant do that.... if i was a white mom with 2 kids in the backseat driving a minivan with the blue cover on my licence plate or wit blueish headlights or even a loud muffler i doubt i would be pulled over let alone ticketed...
There are plenty of ways to modify your car and still stay within the law. But there are limits.
Does saying that "you are an enthusiast" justify unsafe vehicles, obnoxiously loud exhausts, bald tires, and disabled or bypassed emissions controls? That's what this other "ezyride" guy is whining about both here and on the Toronto StreetRacing web site.
I personally think that they should be a lot tougher on the loud mufflers, but then again, if we let the idiots keep their loud mufflers, at least we get advance warning that a fool is coming our way.
As for the white mom with the minivan, you would be wrong in thinking that. Peel did a crackdown specifically targeting license plate covers a couple of months back. Everyone got pulled over regardless of vehicle type.
15-Jun-2004, 08:51 PM
#22
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North York/Oshawa
Posts: 469
my muffler isnt even loud tho... thats the thing... but whatever... its been a while since those tickets an cops have gone by me not really lookin any more... maybe cuz theres alot more cars out on the streets now
15-Jun-2004, 08:53 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Originally posted by Capo
my muffler isnt even loud tho... thats the thing... but whatever... its been a while since those tickets an cops have gone by me not really lookin any more... maybe cuz theres alot more cars out on the streets now
my muffler isnt even loud tho... thats the thing... but whatever... its been a while since those tickets an cops have gone by me not really lookin any more... maybe cuz theres alot more cars out on the streets now
15-Jun-2004, 08:54 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
Everyone has their stories, it is never ending complain.
If you got tickets, well too bad. If you haven't got any, keep it that way. That's all I can say.
If you got tickets, well too bad. If you haven't got any, keep it that way. That's all I can say.
15-Jun-2004, 11:36 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 3,193
Originally posted by Nova_Dust
Everyone has their stories, it is never ending complain.
If you got tickets, well too bad. If you haven't got any, keep it that way. That's all I can say.
Everyone has their stories, it is never ending complain.
If you got tickets, well too bad. If you haven't got any, keep it that way. That's all I can say.
Even with tinted lisence plate covers lol I'm not a fan of cannister or loud mufflers, I think a nice twin loop or an ITR/SiR muffler beats them.
15-Jun-2004, 11:41 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: on a race track
Posts: 17,846
loud mufflers annoy me..
ok I'll look up the charge in the HTA what section is written on the ticket (should have a section number...)
and I guess the boat comment was Am I towing a boat??? and not I am towing a boat... my bad for reading it wrong
Driving with an unsafe Load
and I guess the boat comment was Am I towing a boat??? and not I am towing a boat... my bad for reading it wrong
15-Jun-2004, 11:50 PM
#27
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: on a race track
Posts: 17,846
just curious do you have NO2?.. because that would be a violation of the HTA Part 7 section 112.1
look at that sub section 3 says you can face up to 3 months jail time as part of the violation.... hmmmm I do hope I didn't misread that ....
look at that sub section 3 says you can face up to 3 months jail time as part of the violation.... hmmmm I do hope I didn't misread that ....
16-Jun-2004, 09:18 AM
#28
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 909
He probably gave you the unsafe load ticket because your car looked like it was bottoming out. I could see how with an older car like a rex your drop might look like the death of the original suspension. Take them all to court.
The loud muffler thing is a tossup but the fact that you were driving behind a bus means that you weren't the loudest thing on the road so you can argue that the cop couldn't properly hear it. Be sure to go to lengths to point out that your exhaust is not a "straight through hollywood style" muffler, as the HTA states, and hope for the best.
Bring up the fact that you weren't carrying any load and that the car is lowered to combat the unsafe load thing.
If you did in fact go to the ministry about your engine and they sent you away then you need to go back to them and confirm that this is their policy and ask to get it in writing. If you show up to court with that then the last ticket should be easy.
It sounds like the cop was just being a dick to me. When you get pulled over and get 3 tickets, none of which are traffic offences, it sounds like the cop specifically wanted to **** you over when he pulled that U turn.
I know everyone wants to show their best face and say the cops are just doing their jobs but honestly, this guy has a swap, suspension, and exhaust. If you are serious about modding your Honda into something that performs then you would have these mods and apparently you are good for $330 every time a cop decides to pull you over, is that fair? Does that help public safety? If the cop actually thought that the car was unsafe then why would he just write tickets? Why would he threaten him with pulling his plates instead of just doing it?
My answer to all of these questions is that it's a cash grab which aims to deter people from modifying cars.
If you can answer those 4 questions with a different reason then I'm willing to listen to what you have to say about cops just doing their jobs.
The loud muffler thing is a tossup but the fact that you were driving behind a bus means that you weren't the loudest thing on the road so you can argue that the cop couldn't properly hear it. Be sure to go to lengths to point out that your exhaust is not a "straight through hollywood style" muffler, as the HTA states, and hope for the best.
Bring up the fact that you weren't carrying any load and that the car is lowered to combat the unsafe load thing.
If you did in fact go to the ministry about your engine and they sent you away then you need to go back to them and confirm that this is their policy and ask to get it in writing. If you show up to court with that then the last ticket should be easy.
It sounds like the cop was just being a dick to me. When you get pulled over and get 3 tickets, none of which are traffic offences, it sounds like the cop specifically wanted to **** you over when he pulled that U turn.
I know everyone wants to show their best face and say the cops are just doing their jobs but honestly, this guy has a swap, suspension, and exhaust. If you are serious about modding your Honda into something that performs then you would have these mods and apparently you are good for $330 every time a cop decides to pull you over, is that fair? Does that help public safety? If the cop actually thought that the car was unsafe then why would he just write tickets? Why would he threaten him with pulling his plates instead of just doing it?
My answer to all of these questions is that it's a cash grab which aims to deter people from modifying cars.
If you can answer those 4 questions with a different reason then I'm willing to listen to what you have to say about cops just doing their jobs.
16-Jun-2004, 09:42 AM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,881
you can have an exhaust that isnt loud and that is free flowing (mine for example, looks stock to the naked eye but upon looking its full 2.25" with a high flow muffler).
Is it fair people get tickets? yes, of course it is. if you car doesnt meet or exceed the given parameters that all automobiles are supopsed to stick to then u get a ticket, simple as that
Does it help public safety? yes, if u can deter people from lowering their car beyond the safe suspension limits which would cause the car to be unsafe directly helps public safety because there wont be any cars excessivly slowing at rail road crossing, driveway enterances etc. not to mention cars bobbing around on blown shocks that create serious bump steer and cause the car to lose control.
If the cop actually thought that the car was unsafe then why would he just write tickets? Its the same reason they dont take your license away from you every time you are caught speeding, running a red light or whatever. Tickets are supposed to be a deterence and if people want to do things that get tickets they can pay for it, because they must have enough spare money kicking around to pay these tickets and/or take time off work and goto court to fight them
Why would he threaten him with pulling his plates instead of just doing it? Again, see the above. Threaten to act as deterence to clean up your act or the next time the officer sees you he might not be so nice and take your plates and have your car impounded and y'all know impound fees are nice and hefty.
Man, how is this a deterence for people to modify cars? its a deterence for people not to modify the car the incorrect way/unsafe way. In no way have the police's actions detered me nor my friends from modifying our cars, we just do it smart and follow the guidelines set inplace by the governing bodies because in the end the more money you pay for tickets and that nonsense is less money you can spend modifying your car
in the end... S.W.A.P.
Is it fair people get tickets? yes, of course it is. if you car doesnt meet or exceed the given parameters that all automobiles are supopsed to stick to then u get a ticket, simple as that
Does it help public safety? yes, if u can deter people from lowering their car beyond the safe suspension limits which would cause the car to be unsafe directly helps public safety because there wont be any cars excessivly slowing at rail road crossing, driveway enterances etc. not to mention cars bobbing around on blown shocks that create serious bump steer and cause the car to lose control.
If the cop actually thought that the car was unsafe then why would he just write tickets? Its the same reason they dont take your license away from you every time you are caught speeding, running a red light or whatever. Tickets are supposed to be a deterence and if people want to do things that get tickets they can pay for it, because they must have enough spare money kicking around to pay these tickets and/or take time off work and goto court to fight them
Why would he threaten him with pulling his plates instead of just doing it? Again, see the above. Threaten to act as deterence to clean up your act or the next time the officer sees you he might not be so nice and take your plates and have your car impounded and y'all know impound fees are nice and hefty.
Man, how is this a deterence for people to modify cars? its a deterence for people not to modify the car the incorrect way/unsafe way. In no way have the police's actions detered me nor my friends from modifying our cars, we just do it smart and follow the guidelines set inplace by the governing bodies because in the end the more money you pay for tickets and that nonsense is less money you can spend modifying your car
in the end... S.W.A.P.
16-Jun-2004, 01:11 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 909
Cynikal, where in the post did you get the information that he had done anything more wrong than you have? His first ticket was for a magnaflow catback with a resonator. What would indicate that that exhaust would be illegal at the time when you were buying it, especially with a resonator on it?
Let's assume his second ticket was for the drop although the cop applied a really stupid section of the HTA to that offence. Why do I say really stupid, well if you were towing a 17' boat with a hatch and the cop stopped you for an unsafe load, would he write you a ticket and wish you happy sailing, or would he make you take the boat off because it's unsafe? Again, is the cop enforcing safety or collecting tickets? Also please reconcile for me this statement "then he told me to not get lippy because he would take the plate off" with a cop doing his job and not powertripping.
The third ticket is a result of cops not working with the MTO since he went in to adjust his ownership after swapping engines and they sent him away saying it was fine.
What details of that stop indicate to you that the cop was just doing his job? Which details of the story suggest to you that his car was modifed any better/worse than yours?
If they actually came out and specified what was and was not illegal then I would say enforce the hell out of whatever laws they pass. They haven't passed any laws though so any aftermarket exhaust is potentially illegal and any drop is potentially illegal (as for that two fingers story show me one instance in any legal document signed after the 1700's where a finger width was actually used as a unit of measurement and I'll buy you a beer). The regulations on reporting and recording engine swaps are also apparently confused so there's no guarantee that anyone with a swap has the right indicator on their ownership assuming they asked the same person at MTO as he did.
The reason that this comes off as whining to some and legitimate complaint to others is that the law is not enforced evenly, which is another way of saying that it isn't fair although its a more technical and defensible way of saying it.
The regulars all have stories about how they don't get stopped which may be due to their driving style, position, hair colour, whatever. The simple fact is that if gatherer can drive around with a roll cage, and I'm assuming a safety harness and not get stopped, then why did another member get threatened with losing the plates for having an unconnected harness lying on the floor in the back? Whether you take either side of the argument, the fact that its enforced differently for different people is unfair and makes a mockery of the police and justice. This is the root of the disrespect shown by a lot of members since their only experience with police is getting pulled over, threatened, and told to shut up or their car gets towed, while being handed several tickets for things that they see every day.
Bottom line is that a lot of modifications are borderline illegal and a lot of cops live on that border applying the law as they feel fit. I myself haven't modified anything that would effect the legality of my car but if I decide to in the future you have to take into consideration that any change could get you charged and even if it's complete BS you still have to take the time to go to court.
Let's assume his second ticket was for the drop although the cop applied a really stupid section of the HTA to that offence. Why do I say really stupid, well if you were towing a 17' boat with a hatch and the cop stopped you for an unsafe load, would he write you a ticket and wish you happy sailing, or would he make you take the boat off because it's unsafe? Again, is the cop enforcing safety or collecting tickets? Also please reconcile for me this statement "then he told me to not get lippy because he would take the plate off" with a cop doing his job and not powertripping.
The third ticket is a result of cops not working with the MTO since he went in to adjust his ownership after swapping engines and they sent him away saying it was fine.
What details of that stop indicate to you that the cop was just doing his job? Which details of the story suggest to you that his car was modifed any better/worse than yours?
If they actually came out and specified what was and was not illegal then I would say enforce the hell out of whatever laws they pass. They haven't passed any laws though so any aftermarket exhaust is potentially illegal and any drop is potentially illegal (as for that two fingers story show me one instance in any legal document signed after the 1700's where a finger width was actually used as a unit of measurement and I'll buy you a beer). The regulations on reporting and recording engine swaps are also apparently confused so there's no guarantee that anyone with a swap has the right indicator on their ownership assuming they asked the same person at MTO as he did.
The reason that this comes off as whining to some and legitimate complaint to others is that the law is not enforced evenly, which is another way of saying that it isn't fair although its a more technical and defensible way of saying it.
The regulars all have stories about how they don't get stopped which may be due to their driving style, position, hair colour, whatever. The simple fact is that if gatherer can drive around with a roll cage, and I'm assuming a safety harness and not get stopped, then why did another member get threatened with losing the plates for having an unconnected harness lying on the floor in the back? Whether you take either side of the argument, the fact that its enforced differently for different people is unfair and makes a mockery of the police and justice. This is the root of the disrespect shown by a lot of members since their only experience with police is getting pulled over, threatened, and told to shut up or their car gets towed, while being handed several tickets for things that they see every day.
Bottom line is that a lot of modifications are borderline illegal and a lot of cops live on that border applying the law as they feel fit. I myself haven't modified anything that would effect the legality of my car but if I decide to in the future you have to take into consideration that any change could get you charged and even if it's complete BS you still have to take the time to go to court.
16-Jun-2004, 01:15 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
Originally posted by gatherer
ok and another thing I'm from Scarborough I work in Etobicoke I drive across the city at various times during the day and night to get too and from work...
and I always drive in this car:
my car is super visable easily to spot ... actually a guy from work told me he saw me in his area yesterday ...
and I never get bothered by police... today coming home I was on a side street near my house and an unmarked police officer just waved at me....I politely waved back as I passed him going in the opposite direction. did I get pulled over nope.... I see coips all the time on the road ... in places that are easy for them to turn around and come after me. do they no... why? because there is no secert Harass all car hobbyists conspricy
the Police officer probably saw the load you were towing thought it was unsafe then decided to nail you on the rest.... how much did the load you were towing weigh?
ok and another thing I'm from Scarborough I work in Etobicoke I drive across the city at various times during the day and night to get too and from work...
and I always drive in this car:
my car is super visable easily to spot ... actually a guy from work told me he saw me in his area yesterday ...
and I never get bothered by police... today coming home I was on a side street near my house and an unmarked police officer just waved at me....I politely waved back as I passed him going in the opposite direction. did I get pulled over nope.... I see coips all the time on the road ... in places that are easy for them to turn around and come after me. do they no... why? because there is no secert Harass all car hobbyists conspricy
the Police officer probably saw the load you were towing thought it was unsafe then decided to nail you on the rest.... how much did the load you were towing weigh?
gatherer
cynical, i agree! S.W.A.P it is
16-Jun-2004, 01:23 PM
#32
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 63
Cops can go around and do what ever they want
Not all cops are asses.. But some think they are above the law With their attitudes and chips on there shoulders. When you get pull over you can't talk back or more ticket will be given. That why I taping everything now. And one way or another I will get my revenge.
Not all cops are asses.. But some think they are above the law With their attitudes and chips on there shoulders. When you get pull over you can't talk back or more ticket will be given. That why I taping everything now. And one way or another I will get my revenge.
16-Jun-2004, 04:29 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place Called Ontario
Posts: 3,694
Originally posted by ezyride
Cops can go around and do what ever they want
Not all cops are asses.. But some think they are above the law With their attitudes and chips on there shoulders. When you get pull over you can't talk back or more ticket will be given. That why I taping everything now. And one way or another I will get my revenge.
Cops can go around and do what ever they want
Not all cops are asses.. But some think they are above the law With their attitudes and chips on there shoulders. When you get pull over you can't talk back or more ticket will be given. That why I taping everything now. And one way or another I will get my revenge.
Taping is another bad thing....if ur gonna pull a camera out in his face, he'z gonna ask u to put it away, if u don't, i'm sure worse things will come ur way.
Remember cops have friends too, and his friends will be looking out for u, if u pull anything stupid.
Cops can't do whatever they want....its the uninformed citizen that lets them do whatever they want. Go read some laws.
Bottom line is that a lot of modifications are borderline illegal and a lot of cops live on that border applying the law as they feel fit. I myself haven't modified anything that would effect the legality of my car but if I decide to in the future you have to take into consideration that any change could get you charged and even if it's complete BS you still have to take the time to go to court.
XhibiTsi Your just a friggin retard...LOL Who makes fun of other ppl's cars now a days......HAHAHA honestly.....hahahahhaha
16-Jun-2004, 04:37 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: on a race track
Posts: 17,846
I agree about the taping think.... the response to you not putting it away is to go over your car with a fine toothed comb and get you on everything... then confiscate the tape as evidence....
16-Jun-2004, 05:29 PM
#35
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 63
hidden voice recorder..
16-Jun-2004, 06:37 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: oakville
Posts: 22
the best idea is to actually go get a safety inspection once a year and keep that in the car and have the garage make comments about the vehicle not being too low or excessively loud or whatever else you guys are getting tickets for, it sounds to me like everyone is whining because they didn't know what they were doing before it was done. i have a friend that i put headers on his camaro now he doens't have some pipes from the emissions gear and he is affraid of getting pulled over. i ordered his parts for him and am installing them on the weekend so he doesn't get a ticket.
17-Jun-2004, 01:48 AM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
STFU illestciv!! im juzt saying how i feel... besides, i have a LIFE outside internet... i dont bring my LOVELIFE over to forums and ****! im not here to make friends... im here to learn... so props to people thats sharing their knowledge such as bbarbulo,JSK,loudsubz,dingus,pulovr,cynical etc but for peeps like u and gatherer who says nothing but ****.. u can all just suck my ****!
peace
peace
17-Jun-2004, 10:18 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place Called Ontario
Posts: 3,694
Originally posted by XhibiTsi
u can all just suck my ****!
peace
u can all just suck my ****!
peace
17-Jun-2004, 04:28 PM
#39
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 63
XhibiTsi!!! your right. !! Ugly cars don't get harassed. Your right his car is ugly.
Tell me what you think about my ride.. Cops like to pick on it.
Tell me what you think about my ride.. Cops like to pick on it.
17-Jun-2004, 06:14 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 156
ezyride, it's just my personal opinion... i wasnt gonna say it but i keep on seeing him jacking people's tread and bragging about his auto X stock civic and how he never gets harass by popos.. this site.. as what the website name is "torontocivics" should be about civic right?? NOT! its all about JDM and ANTI-RICE its funny how some people on here doesnt even know what JDM means...
but.. yeah.. i think your car looks sick man..
drive the speed limit... respect the authorities... follow traffic rules.. and youll worry about notthing...
drive safe dude..
but.. yeah.. i think your car looks sick man..
drive the speed limit... respect the authorities... follow traffic rules.. and youll worry about notthing...
drive safe dude..
