project blacksheep
09-Mar-2011, 12:55 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pick. er. ing.
Posts: 1,870
project blacksheep
hey,
so last night, i made a trip to kingston (from toronto), and got myself a rare b17a1. I've got some pics below. Currently, i have a d16z6, a small, slow, pos. i'm hoping to upgrade to this b in search of more power and that beautiful sounding bwahhhhhhhh-ing. I was told it has about 170k kms, and when i took off the valve cover, it looks about right, i'd say. It didn't come with transmission, because even if it did, it wouldn't help me, i have an ek (96-00 civic hatch, for those that are not familiar
) and im hydraulic. before i put this engine in, i want to give it a small refresh:
-new timing belt (honda, not anything else)
-new water pump (honda, not anything else)
-head gasket
-valve cover gasket
-intake gasket
-exhaust gasket
-oil pan gasket
-arp head studs
-cam and crank seal
-injectors (perhaps??)
im open to comments, questions, criticism, whatever you got for me
.
One thing though, before i begin to buy all of those things, i want to buy the necessities that i do need, such as: a gsr transmission, a stage 1 or 2 clutch, lightened or resurfaced flywheel, 99-00 civic si (can. sir) driveshafts with half shaft. the remaining of what mounts i need, sparkplugs, sparkplug wires, dizzy cap and rotor. thats about all i can think of for now.
anything else i should do before this bwah-er goes in?
since im making a thread as well, i figured i'll post my carbotech shoes that came in today as well!. I know they don't belong in this section, but oh well .
so last night, i made a trip to kingston (from toronto), and got myself a rare b17a1. I've got some pics below. Currently, i have a d16z6, a small, slow, pos. i'm hoping to upgrade to this b in search of more power and that beautiful sounding bwahhhhhhhh-ing. I was told it has about 170k kms, and when i took off the valve cover, it looks about right, i'd say. It didn't come with transmission, because even if it did, it wouldn't help me, i have an ek (96-00 civic hatch, for those that are not familiar
) and im hydraulic. before i put this engine in, i want to give it a small refresh:-new timing belt (honda, not anything else)
-new water pump (honda, not anything else)
-head gasket
-valve cover gasket
-intake gasket
-exhaust gasket
-oil pan gasket
-arp head studs
-cam and crank seal
-injectors (perhaps??)
im open to comments, questions, criticism, whatever you got for me
. One thing though, before i begin to buy all of those things, i want to buy the necessities that i do need, such as: a gsr transmission, a stage 1 or 2 clutch, lightened or resurfaced flywheel, 99-00 civic si (can. sir) driveshafts with half shaft. the remaining of what mounts i need, sparkplugs, sparkplug wires, dizzy cap and rotor. thats about all i can think of for now.
anything else i should do before this bwah-er goes in?
since im making a thread as well, i figured i'll post my carbotech shoes that came in today as well!
. I know they don't belong in this section, but oh well .
09-Mar-2011, 02:07 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
Posts: 5,460
Awesome project Alex! 
Welcome to the DOHC dark-side! haha
A couple things to add... If you're going so far as to replace the head gasket, why not also pull the bottom end apart, install new bearings, hone the cylinders and install new piston rings as well...
Also you should install new valve stem seals. Since it's a b-series vtec motor with sorta high mileage, you might as well address all the potential causes of oil-burnage, right?
Good luck, keep us posted.
Welcome to the DOHC dark-side! haha
A couple things to add... If you're going so far as to replace the head gasket, why not also pull the bottom end apart, install new bearings, hone the cylinders and install new piston rings as well...
Also you should install new valve stem seals. Since it's a b-series vtec motor with sorta high mileage, you might as well address all the potential causes of oil-burnage, right?
Good luck, keep us posted.
09-Mar-2011, 03:14 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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if i were to pull apart the bottom end to do all that, then i might as well just do a complete rebuild, no?
i just don't see in doing a little bit when a some 100$'s away i can do so much more
i just don't see in doing a little bit when a some 100$'s away i can do so much more
09-Mar-2011, 04:09 PM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where my car is.
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If it had less than 100k, I could see leaving the bottom end alone. But it's at 170k and you know how people drive with these engines...lol.
Bearings and piston rings are not that expensive and you can hone it yourself....
It's up to you, though.
Bearings and piston rings are not that expensive and you can hone it yourself....
It's up to you, though.
10-Mar-2011, 12:50 AM
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As for the piston rings, i was googling, and found some oe replacement piston rings for $115 from hastings or beck-arnley. I've read this is a reputable brand, is the internet telling lies again?
Also found oe main bearings for $45. I just don't see how the price difference is so big between these and honda oem.
Also, someone is selling ctr pistons for 100. was wondering maybe i should get these, i'm not too familiar on what is "good" what is bad or what just doesn't make a difference. If i do change the pistons, even if they are from another b series, will i still have to bore the block?
10-Mar-2011, 10:44 AM
#9
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Location: Where my car is.
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^The b17's bore is still 81mm just like all the other b-series (except b20). So the ctr pistons will fit no problem. They will raise compression a bit so be ware of that. It may require some tuning to get the most benefit.
Piston ring kits from NPR (nippon) are quite popular and well-known and can be found for a good price on ebay as well as other popular brands... ctr pistons for $100 is a good deal as long as they are in good shape (obviously).
Depending on the condition of the cylinders when you pull it apart, that will determine if you need to just do a quick hone, or bore and hone. If there is scoring etc.. and it requires boring, you may need to bore to .5mm over and thus, will need .5mm oversized pistons. But as long as that engine was taken care of, I'd be willing to bet you'll only need to hone.
Piston ring kits from NPR (nippon) are quite popular and well-known and can be found for a good price on ebay as well as other popular brands... ctr pistons for $100 is a good deal as long as they are in good shape (obviously).
Depending on the condition of the cylinders when you pull it apart, that will determine if you need to just do a quick hone, or bore and hone. If there is scoring etc.. and it requires boring, you may need to bore to .5mm over and thus, will need .5mm oversized pistons. But as long as that engine was taken care of, I'd be willing to bet you'll only need to hone.
12-Mar-2011, 02:48 AM
#11
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^The b17's bore is still 81mm just like all the other b-series (except b20). So the ctr pistons will fit no problem. They will raise compression a bit so be ware of that. It may require some tuning to get the most benefit.
Piston ring kits from NPR (nippon) are quite popular and well-known and can be found for a good price on ebay as well as other popular brands... ctr pistons for $100 is a good deal as long as they are in good shape (obviously).
Depending on the condition of the cylinders when you pull it apart, that will determine if you need to just do a quick hone, or bore and hone. If there is scoring etc.. and it requires boring, you may need to bore to .5mm over and thus, will need .5mm oversized pistons. But as long as that engine was taken care of, I'd be willing to bet you'll only need to hone.
Piston ring kits from NPR (nippon) are quite popular and well-known and can be found for a good price on ebay as well as other popular brands... ctr pistons for $100 is a good deal as long as they are in good shape (obviously).
Depending on the condition of the cylinders when you pull it apart, that will determine if you need to just do a quick hone, or bore and hone. If there is scoring etc.. and it requires boring, you may need to bore to .5mm over and thus, will need .5mm oversized pistons. But as long as that engine was taken care of, I'd be willing to bet you'll only need to hone.
now, i've been looking at pistons, piston rings, rods, camshafts, springs, etc. i'm having a hard time to decide if i should only do the bare minimum (ie. honing, bearings, piston rings, etc), or maybe actually spend some money and do a build. I bought this engine with plans of going faster, obviously, but since my z6 is still running good, i'm not in a rush to do the swap or quickly buy parts and just rush into it. i would like to get the motor in this year, but like i said, i also don't want to rush into it, and do something that i'll regret in the future. i do realize that if i do plan on changing the pistons to a higher cr pistons, i will have to bore it. from what i've heard, the boring and honing labour isnt that expensive, its choosing the right parts to install.
i also dont have a set whp goal. i guess im looking at something around 200whp?
. what im looking for is for a quick, weekday dd, and sundays track car. i may also be interested in boost some time down the road, but its too early for me to speak now. Now, by raising the cr, what does that mean? does it mean that i will gain more hp but also putting more pressure on the bottom end components? i'm not familiar on this subject.
12-Mar-2011, 07:39 AM
#13
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If you want to raise compression, you don't have to bore the block.
Bore means enlarge.
Hone means resurface, which you should do when you replace rings.
You raise the compression ration by making the combustion chamber smaller. Since let's say, you keep stock cam shafts, the duration or time its open to let the air in the combustion chamber is the same, you will have the same amount of air regardless of compression ratio and what pistons you use. THEN on the compression stroke, when piston starts to come up, or in reality just before bdc(bottom dead centre) the intake valves close and piston starts compressing the air and fuel mixture. If the piston is taller or the combustion chamber was reduced in size by either removing some surface on head or block, the amount of air and fuel will be compressed more. Compression ratio, all it means is how much that particular air and fuel mixture can be compressed. 10:1 means it was reduced in size by 10 times. So getting pistons that are different shape or height will change the compression ratio.
Shooting for 200whp mark from a b17 is reasonable. You will need higher compression pistons and a good set of cams.
Aftermarket cams allow more air to come in, but if you go too crazy, they start getting more overlap between intake and exhaust cams and may cause a lumpy idle.
For parts to get to where you want to be, well just get some higher compression pistons, a nice set of cams, then depending on the cam, choose wisely and do some math for valve springs (or I guess ill be doing that for you), replacing bearings would be a good idea if they are worn. I guess we'll find out when I tear your engine apart. And ofcourse just order the gasket kit that you've seen online. Those include everything you need to do a nice clean rebuild.
Bore means enlarge.
Hone means resurface, which you should do when you replace rings.
You raise the compression ration by making the combustion chamber smaller. Since let's say, you keep stock cam shafts, the duration or time its open to let the air in the combustion chamber is the same, you will have the same amount of air regardless of compression ratio and what pistons you use. THEN on the compression stroke, when piston starts to come up, or in reality just before bdc(bottom dead centre) the intake valves close and piston starts compressing the air and fuel mixture. If the piston is taller or the combustion chamber was reduced in size by either removing some surface on head or block, the amount of air and fuel will be compressed more. Compression ratio, all it means is how much that particular air and fuel mixture can be compressed. 10:1 means it was reduced in size by 10 times. So getting pistons that are different shape or height will change the compression ratio.
Shooting for 200whp mark from a b17 is reasonable. You will need higher compression pistons and a good set of cams.
Aftermarket cams allow more air to come in, but if you go too crazy, they start getting more overlap between intake and exhaust cams and may cause a lumpy idle.
For parts to get to where you want to be, well just get some higher compression pistons, a nice set of cams, then depending on the cam, choose wisely and do some math for valve springs (or I guess ill be doing that for you), replacing bearings would be a good idea if they are worn. I guess we'll find out when I tear your engine apart. And ofcourse just order the gasket kit that you've seen online. Those include everything you need to do a nice clean rebuild.
