Discussion thread: Emission / E-test related issues
 

Please post all your emission test related questions in here. Thank you

Nova_Dust


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So I strolled into Honda fully expecting my 98 si to pass the emissions test. It came back with failing grades. My Hydrocarbons were above the limit.

So I asked honda what the problem was, and they told me they have to do a diagnostic ($98.00)

??????????????????????????

ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS so they can connect my car to a computer and press a few buttons. I asked if they would waive the fee if I had the repairs done there and they refused. So I took my sheets and went to Green and Ross and ended up paying $78.00 (still a rip off, but what was I supposed to do?)

They run their test and tell me my O2 sensor is only picking up emissions from one cylinder, as the new header (magnaflow) doesn't collect data from all four cylinders (as does the stock) therefore it is throwing the results off.

I asked what my options were and they told me to replace my header with a stock manifold.

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HAS ANYONE ever had this problem before????????

Try replacing your o2 before you go replacing your header

ya went threw the same thing. Got a new header back system all kinds of headaches. Due to the car being obd2 you have to run 2 O2 sensors. You should have one at the top of the header and one in the cat. If you dont have one on the top of the header then get a O2 bung welded in. Make sure you have new sparkplugs and warm up the cat for at least 20-30min before going in. I failed a couple of times due to a cold cat, which no-one can really diagnose. Just dont leave your car waiting for a long time before the test.

go to a muffler shop, have an O2 bung put into the collector and one after wherever you put your cat (midpipe prolly)...

if that IS truly the problem, then ^^^ that will solve it. and save you from spending hella money on another header. this fix should only cost like $40-50 bux.

you should come to unity auto :) TCC affiliate.

do you have your stock exhaust manifold? if so why not just put it on or find someone with one and put it one just for the test?

i would also recommend you put the stock header back on.

I failed when i had my Mugen header. the piping material is thin so there wasn't enough heat to warm up the O2 sensor (near the collector) or the cat.

my friend also failed early this year because of his header. once we both replaced it with stock, it reduced out emissions by a lot.

I don't have the old manifold, it was actually broken, that's what prompted me to put a header on it.

When I went back to the guy who installed it, he told me the wire for the 02 sensor isn't long enough to fit in the collector pipe.

After looking at the issue, he told me he can send the car off to someone who he knows who is an emission specialist who will 'make it pass' ... whatever the heck that means.

The problem is now what will happen in two years when I have to re-do the clean test.

This entire emission test is bull S*&#. Just another tax grab!!!!

What he is offering you to "make it pass" is illegal. You will have to probably fork out some cash to pay for it.

I would do what Bbarbulo suggested or see if you can source out a second hand Manifold or buy an aftermarket one that will run you 450

try to find someone that you can borrow a stock header from, or buy one if it comes up (good to have around for smog etesting).

i believe the wires can be extended as well so that shouldn't really be an issue.

and yes, i hate the smog tests (failed 6 times in a row 2 years ago)...seems like a cash grab for sure.

it is a cash grab, if they really cared about the environment, there wouldn't be such thing as a conditional pass where you just basically buy yourself a $500 (or so) etest. And they would be targeting the heavy trucks/buses that are the real polluters.

I'm sure theres someone on here (djxquizit comes to mind) that would have a stock manifold that you could buy for dirt cheap to use for the etest.

Okay...but isn't that a pain in the ass... putting on a stock manifold everytime I have to do an e-test? It doesn't seem to be worth the hastle.

I'm sure what the guy will do is illegal... but i'm just pissed off at this entire situation. I don't understand what the rest of people do when they have to do an emissions test. For me, putting switching manifolds would be a pain.

ALSO...since my O2 sensor only sends the correct fuel mixture to one cylinder... what the heck is going on with the other two?????

I'd run the car real hot and take it in, as for the guy who says he "can make it pass" he'll try different things till it passes. there are alot of places that will do that for you. I'm taking my car in tomorrow, the guy at the etest place thinks the dealer that i bought the car from probubly just rolled it in and ran the test, he suggest I get new fuel in the car because it was sitting at the dealer for about a month or so, drive about 100km on the highway the "get rid of all the crap" as he said and bring it in hot for the test. He doesn't think there will be any issue, he's seen cars pass with bad O2 sensors.

it might be a pain in the ass, but you only have to do it once every 2 years so i don't think it's that bad in that sense.

as for the O2 sensor, it's only READING from one cylinder, which sends that info to the ECU. The ECU then uses the readings from that one cylinder and applies it to all 4 cylinders.

Mashimaro,

I didn't know that. The guy at active green and ross told me that one cylinder was working properly while the other three were running rich. (default level). I sort of suspected the info would be sent back to the comp. and then applied to all cylinders.

Thanks for all the info people.

OBD2 cars know exactly which cylinder is running rich/lean/misfiring based on the CKF sensor. it's smart like that y0

as for homoface telling you the O2 wiring is too short... well ****ING EXTEND IT FOO!! I mean if you're paying for a header install, that should just be a given that the wiring will get extended.

What he is offering you to "make it pass" is illegal.

^^ not necessarily.

Think You Can't Pass Your Emissions???
 

OK guys, I just got my etest done on my turbo dseries, running super rich, blah blah blah, I took my car into a shop to have it checked out. I was refered there by a good friend, anyhow, he took a look at the car, warmed it up real good, and ran the test. The first test wasn't the real thing, we were just checking to see what reading we would get. After the run he was confident that the car would pass no problem. BUT, when he entered all my info he put my car in as a modified Hot Rod. (Apparently this is a category) anyhow it bumped up all my legal limits. He said this is what you have to do, the car didn't come with the Turbo, so lets run it as a modified car. Keep in mind this has no effect on insurance. Anyhow i passed with flying colors. Just to give you an idea, i'll post the readings of the first etest done at the dealer that sold me the car as is, and then the results of my etest with the car warmed up and ran as a modified hot rod.

First failed etest, regualar unmodded civic:

HC ppm (Limit) 75 (Reading) 83
CO% (Limit) 0.42 (Reading) 0.76
NO ppm (Limit) 576 (Reading) 671

Now with the modified car Etest:

HC ppm (Limit) 363 (Reading) 54
CO% (Limit) 2.87 (Reading) 0.21
NO ppm (Limit) 3838 (Reading) 512

So you can see that the limits are greatly increased, you can also see that I would have passed regardless, We assumed the dealer that tested it prior did not have the car warmed up before testing. Now to all of you worried about etesting your car, get the damn technician to change your car to a Hot Rod modified classification, keep in mind there is also classifications for "Grey" market modded cars, not sure what the limits are on those, but as the technician told me why try and pass a modded car under factory limits when you own a modded car and there's a class for it. I hope this helps all of you guys out worried about etesting your cars. Goodluck.

i ended up running mine as a hotrod aswell, due to the high NO reading, im assuming caused by the lack of an egr system

i was worried at first that this could lead to some sort of insurance related problems, but so far i havent heard anything. Maybe someone here knows if there is a downside to using the hotrod approach to emission testing

I wouldn't imagine it would, maybe if you sell the car it would affect it, maybe the next owner would get hit for it??

Do they check though to see if your car is actually a hot rod class?

Also if I have an aftermarket cone filter instead of factory airbox does that make it a hot rod?


I got e-test coming up. :D

its nice to see turbo cars with big injectors that i've tuned pass an etest.
Mind you, i don't know why it wouldn't, its not like they take the car and run 10psi of boost throught it at 7000rpms when doing an etest (thats when the car needs to be rich...in boost).
This goes to show the importance of tuning on more than just the level of safety and power production. It also shows the reliability aspect and how well your car will run after its tuned. It runs so well, that you even passed an etest.

Turbo-D shoot me a PM or call me, when ur ready to come back and fix the start-up issue.

I had my car tested as a hot rod, my insurance company never found out, then i switched insurance companies and the new company never found out. So i wouldn't be worried about having the car run as a hot rod....besides why would your insurance company care about the estest results?

Seeing the 2nd result, would you run your car as a regular Civic 2 years after?

according to the second results your car would have past as a unmodded civic

Now now, don't get carried away there Zeeman. I'm all for the sales pitch, but don't get too carried away. Check the date on my post.

hmm, didn't see that.
Was that before we tuned? I don't remember the dates of all of the cars i've tuned, althouth its not like your car was running uber crap before we tuned, it was just using stock injectors with a FMU and stock fuel pump (yuck)...lol.
But like i said in my post, its not like they're beating on your car while doing the emissions test.
So i don't know why a turbo car wouldn't pass emissions, your not the first turbo honda i've seen pass an etest.
But regardless, its very encouraging to see, especially knowing my car will be boosted in the next few days.

i had the o2 sensor on cylinder 4 with an aftermarket header one time and the guy said it is in the wrong location, but put it through anyway... the stock position should be just before your cat in the downpipe... if the shop you're at can't figure out how to extend the o2 sensor to the right location (which doesn't make any sense, because to run the wire to the front of the engine is much longer than to stock location) then I would take it somewhere else...

i got screwed over with my old car and etesting (swift gt with stage2 cams)...

haven't had a problem yet with the civic (at the time pnp head w/ upped compression, stage 2 cams, i/h/e, chipped)...

...as others have said ... put your stock header back on for the test then switch it... shouldn't take more than 1/2 hr to do... i tend to warm the car up A LITTLE BIT before I start... (note I said just a bit... so you don't fry the crap out of your fingers.. ;)... also the nuts should come out a bit easier... )

either way.... i feel for ya man... good luck!

While I agree that the e-test is a cash grab, I also have to disagree...
The test does take some cars off the road that really shouldn't be on the road, or it makes them clean up their act where necessary. I agree with the part where if they (gov't) really did care about the environment they wouldn't have the conditional pass, but at least it needs a full pass to transfer ownership. The test is a pain, and I think, should be reserved for vehicles older than 4 years old, and commercial vehicles. Newer vehicles are "usually" good for the first 4-5 years if maintained. Granted there are exceptions to the rule.
There are ways around "failing" as mentioned above. "Making it pass" isn't necessarily illegal, just depends on the interpretation of the sentence. A tune-up might "make it pass", however this might not apply to your situation.
There are 2 sides to the emission test, good and bad, they get bad cars fixed or removed from service, and good cars get "taxed". It's like the old saying, one bad apple spoils the bunch. Right?

Edit: Sorry for jacking your thread!

^ agreed
Its seems like the easiest thing would be to get the O2 sensor extended which they should have did in the first place cause even I could do it. Don't go back to the same place who told you that BS cause they are lazy. If I even went to my shop and they said that, I would have flipped.... besides the fact, just get your O2 extented its a permanent fix.

failed e-test help
 

ASM2525 TEST


HCC ppm
limit= 75 reading= 654

co%
limit=.42
reading=.63

Curb Idle Test
limit=250
reading=265

passed everything else

what motor do you have in there? what mods? tuned ecu?
more details!

Try a tune up, plugs, wires, cap, rotor to start. You might have a cat problem, the infamous O2 sensor. The list goes on and on and on. Like the King says, more info!

By the way:

A high HC reading is the result of poor combustion. The most typical cause is a poor ignition system. HC is nothing more than fuel that makes it out the tailpipe without being burned.

So, your first step on the way to compliance will be a complete ignition tuneup: plugs, wires, caps and rotors. These parts are quite reasonable at any of the Big Three suppliers. The only exception to that might be the wires-- still "reasonable" but maybe just a little price shock. Resist the urge to spend on exotic multi-electrode plugs too; their only purpose is to provide extended life on new cars. The Bosch platinums will work just fine. Don't succumb to the temptation to get "bargain" wires either. The care and time required for wire replacement make installing good wires the best investment. Some folks have replaced aging ignition coils as part of the process too, while everything is out and accessible.

The CO reading tells you about the fuel mixture. For the most part, HC and CO are unrelated, unless the mixture on a cylinder is lean enough to cause a misfire. Lean conditions result from vacuum leaks at hard/cracked/broken hoses, leaking gaskets and boots around MAF/MAS sensors, and partially clogged fuel injectors. Old vacuum and emissions hoses undoubtedly need replacing just due to age on many cars, so getting all new ones and installing them in one session is not a bad way to go.

A poor oxygen sensor might cause a lean condition severe enough to create a misfire, but an engine with reasonable ignition will easily fire with that slightly lean mixture.

So, your marching orders would read ignition tuneup as described above, a visual inspection of hoses for vacuum leaks, followed by a listen and spray, and finally a test with a good high-impedance DVM for output from the oxygen sensor.

You should also be aware that excessive HC passing to the exhaust is death on a catalyst. They are only rated to react a certain mass of fuel, so extra fuel translates to extra heat, which leads to (hopefully just) a failed substrate, but too often also results in a fire. (!!) No matter-- if you have the high HC readings at the tailpipe, new catalysts are in your future if you want to have the car clean. Often, a carefully tuned 928 will pass without catalysts working, so start off with the basics and see how you do in pre-test mode at the smog check station. Then do the cats as your budget allows. You'll breathe easier.

Taken from http://www.nichols.nu/tip517.htm

put rubbing alcohol in the gass or that gurntee pass stuff and drive the piss out of it for 1 hour then go back while the engine is hot,, always works for my ride.

i wouldn't use bosch spark plugs in a honda.....get NGK v-power copper cores....the cheapest of the NGK family and also what you would get if you went to honda and asked for spark plugs, but you'd pay $8 a plug at honda, you can get them for $7 for a set of 2 plugs from part source or canadian tire.
I'd also go ahead and check/adjust the base timing via the distributor with a timing light as well.

what ecu

what motor?

2000 b16a2 p28 chipped

theres your problem... chipped ECU probably just to run more fuel, most of the chips are for 1.8 so the dump the fuel in!
get a stock ecu somehow and then run it or take your ecu and get it tuned properly by zeeman or someone decent

get zeeman to check out your chip.