turbo and emissions...
19-Mar-2004, 12:31 PM
#1
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turbo and emissions...
i've been reading up on the whole turboing a d series thing for sometime now... getting it all to fit together and work i understand... but one thing nobody has mentioned is how turboing effects emissions? i'm lucky in that i wont need an e test for like 2 years....
but say i bring in my car to get an e test... and they pop the hood and see a d16 with a turbo and all that goes along with it... like what do they do??
but say i bring in my car to get an e test... and they pop the hood and see a d16 with a turbo and all that goes along with it... like what do they do??
19-Mar-2004, 12:38 PM
#2
if everything works as it should, you'll pass 
it's also a possibility that they'll test your car as a hot-rod
I'd like to hear from Buddah on this re: what it takes to be a hot-rod?
it's also a possibility that they'll test your car as a hot-rod
I'd like to hear from Buddah on this re: what it takes to be a hot-rod?
19-Mar-2004, 12:49 PM
#3
http://www.driveclean.com/driveclean...uide_2003.html
also THIS:
What happens if I change(d) the motor in my Light-Duty vehicle?
If the vehicle is included in the program (appropriate age, registered in the program area), it will be considered a hot rod if the motor differs from the type that was originally offered by the manufacturer for that particular model year. All hot rods registered as the model year 1999 or earlier will continue to be tested according to 1980 emission standards. Vehicles registered as model year 2000 and later will be tested according to emission standards for their model year. Vehicles built to non-Canadian standards but imported into Canada will be tested similarly. Other specialty vehicles will be tested according to 1980 emission standards for an indefinite period, except for vehicles that have "kit" marked on the vehicle licence. Kit cars are exempt from the Drive Clean program.
also THIS:
What happens if I change(d) the motor in my Light-Duty vehicle?
If the vehicle is included in the program (appropriate age, registered in the program area), it will be considered a hot rod if the motor differs from the type that was originally offered by the manufacturer for that particular model year. All hot rods registered as the model year 1999 or earlier will continue to be tested according to 1980 emission standards. Vehicles registered as model year 2000 and later will be tested according to emission standards for their model year. Vehicles built to non-Canadian standards but imported into Canada will be tested similarly. Other specialty vehicles will be tested according to 1980 emission standards for an indefinite period, except for vehicles that have "kit" marked on the vehicle licence. Kit cars are exempt from the Drive Clean program.
19-Mar-2004, 02:18 PM
#4
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dude putting a turbo on yoru car does nto effect emmisions...a poor tune and a cat does...slap a fmu that pumps up your fuel pressure and dumps tons of untuned fuel then ya you wont' but run a afc and tuen yoru injectors and run a good A/f ratio then you will be fine...they key is fuel tuning and a cat converter
19-Mar-2004, 03:44 PM
#5
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well technically there is two things a turbo itself would cause... one being more air and fuel being burned when compared with a stock engine at the same rpm and load... but the other is that the turbo would absorb a lot of the heat required to heat up a cat no?
thats why the wrx was 3 cats... the largest being right before the turbo....
i heard about the hot rod status... and i'd imagine 1980 standards to be easy to keep with... but do they take into account the engines displacement? cause a 1980 small block V8 would have much worse emissions then say a 1980 civic engine.... 1.3L no?
and what are the chances of the good ol insurance company seeing that info and deciding i'm now uninsurable
thats why the wrx was 3 cats... the largest being right before the turbo....
i heard about the hot rod status... and i'd imagine 1980 standards to be easy to keep with... but do they take into account the engines displacement? cause a 1980 small block V8 would have much worse emissions then say a 1980 civic engine.... 1.3L no?
and what are the chances of the good ol insurance company seeing that info and deciding i'm now uninsurable
19-Mar-2004, 04:01 PM
#6
insurance does not pull records from the ministry of transport, the logistics of it would be pretty massive - it would be a mess!!
there is a table on that link I posted - explains engine size, year, expected emissions, everything!
there is a table on that link I posted - explains engine size, year, expected emissions, everything!
19-Mar-2004, 04:13 PM
#7
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Originally posted by bbarbulo
insurance does not pull records from the ministry of transport, the logistics of it would be pretty massive - it would be a mess!!
there is a table on that link I posted - explains engine size, year, expected emissions, everything!
insurance does not pull records from the ministry of transport, the logistics of it would be pretty massive - it would be a mess!!
there is a table on that link I posted - explains engine size, year, expected emissions, everything!
my bad i never went to the link
but does my thinking regarding the turbo absorbing heat from the cat make sense?
19-Mar-2004, 04:14 PM
#8
not so much... a little bit, sure! but the cat will still heatsoak just like everything else in the ex system... so drive the car for a while before you go for your e-test, wass da big deal?!
19-Mar-2004, 04:24 PM
#10
that's correct... 14 parts air, one part fuel = low emissions, regardless of quantity of air and fuel. Well, I shouldn't say that, it's not 100 % correct, but generally speaking yes! DYNO TUNE IT!
19-Mar-2004, 04:37 PM
#11
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Originally posted by bbarbulo
that's correct... 14 parts air, one part fuel = low emissions, regardless of quantity of air and fuel. Well, I shouldn't say that, it's not 100 % correct, but generally speaking yes! DYNO TUNE IT!
that's correct... 14 parts air, one part fuel = low emissions, regardless of quantity of air and fuel. Well, I shouldn't say that, it's not 100 % correct, but generally speaking yes! DYNO TUNE IT!
haha can't dyno tune what i have now... i wont even be boosting my current engine... if i get the motivation and money together i'll buy a much lower km d16z6.... although i could test the limits with mine cause it can't be far from the grave as is
20-Mar-2004, 10:16 AM
#12
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i have a turbo civic (turbo D16)! had the turbo for almost 4 years (this coming may) never had any trouble with e-test! it's as clean as a new car! i get better #s than other civics same year with an intake and exhaust! but u gotta have a cat and proper fuel management!
20-Mar-2004, 12:12 PM
#13
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sure you are burnign mroe fuel but your getting more air...so your air fuel ratio will not reall ycheage even though it will cause you will need a richer burn so it wont' burn to hot and detonate...teh leaner teh A/F ratio the hotter the burn.....and 14:1 is very lean for an fI engine adn it's mroe like 14.7:1 that is a perfect burn stiochiometric...that is very lean..you will want 12 and richer 14.7:1 is what a car will run at cruise for fuel efficiency
22-Mar-2004, 04:54 PM
#14
Under the Drive Clean testing procedures, there are no exceptions for
vehicles that have been modified.
Your vehicle will be required to meet the emission standards set for your
vehicle, if the vehicle is not able to qualify under the "Hot Rod"
standards.
Your vehicle may be considered a hot rod if the motor differs from the type
that was originally offered by the manufacturer, for that particular model
year. All hot rods registered as the model year 1999 or earlier will
continue to be tested according to 1980 emission standards. Vehicles
registered as model year 2000 and later will be tested according to emission
standards for their model year.
If a vehicle, 1999 and older model years, in which the original motor has
been replaced with a motor of a type not installed by the manufacturer in
that model year of the vehicle. The type refers to either the manufacturer
or the block size of the replacement engine. If the manufacturer of the
replacement engine is the same and the block size was available in that
model year of the particular vehicle, then the vehicle is NOT a hot rod and
will be tested to the model year of the vehicle.
Therefore, if your vehicle matches the above information, then the vehicle
will be tested to 1980 standard, if the vehicle is not a hot rod, then it
will be emission tested to the model year of your vehicle.
In order to verify this with the Drive Clean test facility, you can obtain a
letter, stating this, from the vehicle's dealership/ manufacturer, stating
such.
THERE IT IS FOLKS!!
vehicles that have been modified.
Your vehicle will be required to meet the emission standards set for your
vehicle, if the vehicle is not able to qualify under the "Hot Rod"
standards.
Your vehicle may be considered a hot rod if the motor differs from the type
that was originally offered by the manufacturer, for that particular model
year. All hot rods registered as the model year 1999 or earlier will
continue to be tested according to 1980 emission standards. Vehicles
registered as model year 2000 and later will be tested according to emission
standards for their model year.
If a vehicle, 1999 and older model years, in which the original motor has
been replaced with a motor of a type not installed by the manufacturer in
that model year of the vehicle. The type refers to either the manufacturer
or the block size of the replacement engine. If the manufacturer of the
replacement engine is the same and the block size was available in that
model year of the particular vehicle, then the vehicle is NOT a hot rod and
will be tested to the model year of the vehicle.
Therefore, if your vehicle matches the above information, then the vehicle
will be tested to 1980 standard, if the vehicle is not a hot rod, then it
will be emission tested to the model year of your vehicle.
In order to verify this with the Drive Clean test facility, you can obtain a
letter, stating this, from the vehicle's dealership/ manufacturer, stating
such.
THERE IT IS FOLKS!!
22-Mar-2004, 05:00 PM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: No fixed address
Posts: 2,990
Keep in mind too that at no time during the test will your car even be in BOOST. Drive Cleans are done at a constant speed and load...therefore your car will not be boosting and therefore should not dump any additional fuel.
You should pass with flying colours...like all Hondas
You should pass with flying colours...like all Hondas
22-Mar-2004, 05:02 PM
#16
depends on the state of tune though... cuz going to a 440 injector with a piggyback, it'll be pretty tough to get the metering right at idle and so on... esp if the pump is putting out massive fuel, and the return line isn't dumping it fast enough 
Endyn has this trick to mod a B&M press reg for high flow pumps, but I'm afraid to try it. :-\
I'm just gonna tell the guy the motor is bored out to 1.8L SOHC and the displacement is no longer stock
Endyn has this trick to mod a B&M press reg for high flow pumps, but I'm afraid to try it. :-\I'm just gonna tell the guy the motor is bored out to 1.8L SOHC and the displacement is no longer stock
23-Mar-2004, 09:07 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 100
Remember that if you're using aftermarket EFI other than Hondata, there is emmissions equipment that's not being used properly. EGR, charcoal cannister. Even if the car is OBDII with Hondata it's not using everything.
Like bbarbulo said, with larger injectors and you're own tune, it can be difficult, and unfortunately unless you know the emmissions guy, you really don't get alot of chances to test things out.
If you just want to pass and the emmissions place doesn't care about a visual inspection (they never have with me), there are alot of things you can do to the car to help pass the emmissions part.
Now it looks like Drive Clean is going to be phased out within the next 4 years.
Like bbarbulo said, with larger injectors and you're own tune, it can be difficult, and unfortunately unless you know the emmissions guy, you really don't get alot of chances to test things out.
If you just want to pass and the emmissions place doesn't care about a visual inspection (they never have with me), there are alot of things you can do to the car to help pass the emmissions part.
Now it looks like Drive Clean is going to be phased out within the next 4 years.
23-Mar-2004, 09:17 AM
#19
thank GOD, that Drive Clean is a fawking tax on the poor. I mean, if my car is failing emissions, odds are I drive a sh!tbox I can barely afford to put gas into, why you stressin me with trying to fix a $20 rustbucket!??! WTF is gonna happen to all them "dynos" those poor shops put in their floors? ($$$)
23-Mar-2004, 09:23 AM
#20
oh, and as for OBD and hondata, I thought they didn't have anything OBD2... you have to convert to OBD1 and run Hondata like that. This is a big big problem for me as I have to deal with 2 O2 sensors in an open downpipe 
I'm thinking RESISTOR MOD!!! Any thoughts DirtyLude? I mean about putting a resistor in line with the second O2 sensor to lower the output to what the computer would expect to see in a post-cat O2 reading.
I'm thinking RESISTOR MOD!!! Any thoughts DirtyLude? I mean about putting a resistor in line with the second O2 sensor to lower the output to what the computer would expect to see in a post-cat O2 reading.
