Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

Help Bleeding Brakes!!!

Old 18-May-2007, 07:58 PM
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Help Bleeding Brakes!!!

Ok I did a search here and on hater tech for "How To" bleed brakes. I need to bleed my brakes after installing new wheel cylinders and lines in the rear drums.

The process that I have tried to follow advised me to have a friend pump my brakes to build the pressure. Then as I open the bleeder valve on each corner starting with RR,LR,RF,LF my assistant would fully depress the pedal to the floor.

I then closed the bleeder valve and instructed my helper to relieve pressure from the brake pedal.

I used this series of steps for each caliper/cylinder in the order I mentioned above RR,LR,RF,LF. Making sure that the line I was bleeding had fluid flowing from a clear hose attached to each bleeder nipple and no air bubbles were in the hose.

I am fairly certain that there isnt any air in the line as the bubbles stopped and i bled plenty of brake fluid thru to make sure.

The lesult of my efforts is a pedal that needs to be almost fully depressed to the floor for my brakes to make contact.

Does anyone have any good links to how to's for bleeding brakes? or know what I may have done wrong? thanks alot for any help. I greatly appreciate it.
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Old 18-May-2007, 08:30 PM
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Drums?

How many clicks do you need on your handbrake?
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Old 18-May-2007, 09:02 PM
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too lazy to read the full post.. so forgive me if you asked something completely different from your topic.

anyways.. to bleed the brakes. close the bleeder, get a friend to pump it up untill it gets firm or 6-8 times. hold the pedal to the floor and open the bleeder (make sure your friend keeps the pedal to the floor while the bleeder is open because if he lifts it a bit, air will re-enter). Just do that untill all the air is out of the system.. then move on to the next wheel. If you just did lines and WC.. i would gravity bleed the brakes first (just open the valve for awhile untill fluid starts to drip out. Then process to two-man bleed the brakes.


For ^^ that post.. i believe the service manual states 7 clicks. A honda-tech told me 5 clicks.. and I have mine set at 4 clicks. So really 5-7 clicks should do.. id lean more towards 7 though to maximize your shoe life.
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Old 18-May-2007, 09:59 PM
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I run 2

If you need 7 clicks on your drumbrake car I bet your pedal feels like **** too


7 clicks is high up 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

If you bled it properly and there is no air then your rears aren't adjusted properly


get back to us


Oh ya if you changed the lines and all that did you drain the master cylinder? because you need to bleed that too seprately before the lines... if it ran dry...but that shouldn't cause your problem like you are saying now
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Old 18-May-2007, 10:48 PM
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My master cylinder did run dry. How do i bleed my master cylinder?

As for the rear brakes and the E-brake cable.

Should I adjust this inside the rear drums? Ther is two adjustments there one directly related to the ebrake cable and another that consists of a rod that uses threads to open and push the shoes out toward the drum.

Could not having my rear brakes adjusted properly cause this problem with the soft brake pedal?
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Old 18-May-2007, 11:08 PM
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I dont get who or why you're laughing. But hey, if you like dragging brakes adjust it for 2 clicks.
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Old 18-May-2007, 11:10 PM
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ok don't touch the cable.


use see the little wheel that has the little teeth on it? use a flat head on that and adust that so the shoes move out

when you adjust it and before you put the drum back on use you hand and push the shoes up as they move out of position so its hard to put the drum on.

so adjust...push the shose up -put the drums on...do that till the drums drag slightly

try it out and see if you pedal gets better...go for that 3 or 4 clicks or whatever you like




I know theres a acces hole on the back of the backing plate but I can never do anything through that
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Old 18-May-2007, 11:18 PM
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Well your master...now you're not gonna be happy but you have to what you just did all over again so it's up to you lol.


Instead of me typing it all out it's probaly best to look for "bench bleeding" on H-T

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1976889


If you have friends...do it on the car...much easier


Oh ya I wasn't laughing at you chris_v2 it was the 7 clicks ....sorry!
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Old 20-May-2007, 08:48 PM
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I bled the brakes several more times trying to eliminate air from the lines. I concluded that it was air trapped in the lines after adjusting the E-brake to 5 clicks without any improvment in braking. I read that if I bleed the brakes with the 2 person method that I could eliminate most (hopfully all) the air without bleeding the mastercyliner seperate. I have brakes enough to drive the car. Just not what I should have. I am trying to bleed the air out without bench bleeding the MC because the lines and fittings at the MC are corroded to ****. Thanks SMGFANDOTCOM & others for the help here on the boards. Has anyone had any success bleeding a master cylinder slowly but surly thru each individual line???
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Old 20-May-2007, 10:37 PM
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you dont need to bench bleed the MC. Just two-man it. All you did was replace a line and wc's. I do this almost everyday, no need to bleed the mc
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Old 20-May-2007, 10:43 PM
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chris_v2
Help me!!! Where do u live?
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Old 20-May-2007, 11:32 PM
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For Chris

Why do anything performance to your car if you are not going to do it the proper way, if the master runs dry you need to bleed it plain and simple. Why do you think they give you a bleed kit with MC's?

Have you ever seen the amount of air come out of a dry MC?


If you don't reallty care about getting the best from your brakes...don't bleed it...it will still work fine. That is the differnce between doing it the proper way and the Canadian Tire way


pirate
Yes they are correded, so use a wire brush and brush off some of rust on the line...then spray it down with whatever lube and slowly work that fitting back and forth so it doesn't snag up the line,

**don't snag up the line and work it back and forth**
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Old 21-May-2007, 12:10 AM
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I agree with you SMGFANDOTCOM if your gonn do anything in general do it rite the first time or dont do it at all. What im working on here is a $500 burn the midnight oil hatch. My line burst. I had to replace the rear lines and the wheel cylinders. I dont want to spend too much money here so im trying to be resourceful.
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Old 21-May-2007, 12:37 AM
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Trust me my friend all my cars have been $500 cars with rusty lines sezed up bolts and leaky cylinders and they would brake down right before I had to go somewhere.....so I feel your pain!


But unlesss your friend is lifting off the pedal when when you say hold it down and you open the bleeder or the rear isn't adjuted properly...they shouldn't be that scary like you are saying...even without the bleeding the MC.


one question...DID the car ever stop good? Liek before the line blew?



Is the paint on the brake booster under the MC all peeling off?
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Old 21-May-2007, 12:57 AM
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^
No the MC isnt leaking and no flaking paint underneath. I read that somtmes they leak behind were u have to take it off and look?it buildspressure well tho. So im not to worried about that yet.

It isnt that scary.

before they were alot better the pedal was alot higher
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Old 21-May-2007, 01:13 AM
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Does the pedal get hard when you pump it and the car is off? Or it's still mushy? If it gets hard no mush and hold all the pressure then try adjuting those rears till they drag. Pedal height is all about the rears if there is no air and no other problems.
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Old 21-May-2007, 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by SMGFANDOTCOM
For Chris

Why do anything performance to your car if you are not going to do it the proper way, if the master runs dry you need to bleed it plain and simple. Why do you think they give you a bleed kit with MC's?

Have you ever seen the amount of air come out of a dry MC?

what the flying **** are you talking about?
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Old 21-May-2007, 09:14 AM
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hey man its to early in the morning to read the whole thing but do not open all the bleeder screws at the same time. Gravity bleed is the easist way to screw up on. Also you are not suppose to hold the peddle to the floor when breaking. Start off at one side at a time. Put a 2x4 under the peddle against the floor so the peddle does not touch the floor. This is done so that the fluid stays inside the line while the peddle is down and you must close the srew before he lifts it up. (Its like a straw filled with water and your finger on it, you let go all the water comes out) Do ONE AT A TIME. Also the parking break has very little to do with pressure on the peddle. Most drums only give you like 20% total breaking power, and can only be adusted threw the adjuster screw in the rear drum. There is a adjuster screw on the ebreak handle as well to adjust the (CLICKING) of the leaver but the adjuster screw in the drum is best. If you dont know how to adjust the drum, DONT touch it. Only go the the handbreak leaver adjuster bolt under the armrest.
You have air in your system, it will come out if you continue to work on it properly. Get a hayes manual or check on the net but be carefull.

goodluck
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Old 21-May-2007, 11:19 AM
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Buddy you have no idea what you are talking about. If the rear brakes are not adjusted so the shoes are close to the drum a little space at the drum eqauls huge travel at the brake pedal. This is how drum brakes work and that is what the adjuster is for.

Why did I ask about the parking brake? Because if he comes back and says 24 clicks thats quite obvious how much out of adjustment his brakes are.

Gravity bleed.....oh wait you didn't read anything.

-One guy is saying don't drag the brakes
-One guy is saying don't bleed the MC -One Guy is saying don't adjust the shoes.


I'm totally assuming pirate has the mechanical skills to bleed brakes and understand the whole concept if he can change 2 wheel cylinders and 2 lines. If he says no more air, I'm totaly going to respect that he has read the internet back and forth on the topic, has bled his brakes over and over and knows what air bubbles look like and those are the other reasons posted that could cause his problem.

Pirate if you find some magical air in your system...you'll know from where up high on your firewall it came from.




No wonder everyone here buys suspension then puts their camber to 0


Goodluck



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Old 21-May-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by slowandfurious
hey man its to early in the morning to read the whole thing but do not open all the bleeder screws at the same time. Gravity bleed is the easist way to screw up on. Also you are not suppose to hold the peddle to the floor when breaking. Start off at one side at a time. Put a 2x4 under the peddle against the floor so the peddle does not touch the floor. This is done so that the fluid stays inside the line while the peddle is down and you must close the srew before he lifts it up. (Its like a straw filled with water and your finger on it, you let go all the water comes out) Do ONE AT A TIME. Also the parking break has very little to do with pressure on the peddle. Most drums only give you like 20% total breaking power, and can only be adusted threw the adjuster screw in the rear drum. There is a adjuster screw on the ebreak handle as well to adjust the (CLICKING) of the leaver but the adjuster screw in the drum is best. If you dont know how to adjust the drum, DONT touch it. Only go the the handbreak leaver adjuster bolt under the armrest.
You have air in your system, it will come out if you continue to work on it properly. Get a hayes manual or check on the net but be carefull.

goodluck

lol
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