imported_loudsubz

Last week going down a hill my brake went out, i pressed the pedal and it went to the floor, after pumping it a few times i gained pressure back again and it held no problem, this problem persisted all the way home with me having to pump the pedal to gain pressure, but after pressure was built the pedal did not sink...

I checked the fluid, it was all brown and dirty looking, but at the max mark.

I did not touch anything, but the next day I get in my car to move it and the brakes work fine again, no problem?

Im confused

Nova_Dust

Dirty brake fluid will causing the lines to clog up and damage them because of condensation build up inside the master cylinder which will cause the brake to lose pressure.

That's exactly what happened to you.

Also, DOT3 (I think that's what you are using) is a thicker fliud compare to DOT4, and also DOT5. It is like comparing ice cappacino to coffee, one has small particles in it, and the other one is clear. If you could, try DOT4 for a change, or even DOT5.

Nova_Dust

Thiner brake fluid travels faster inside the lines, makes your brake response faster. That's why cars that has ABS requires at least DOT4 because the lines are thinner and they need smoother fluid (so I heard). Our Civics probably don't need DOT4 but I changed from DOT3 to DOT5 during my last service, and bleed all the brakes. I can honestly say I did notice a difference. Car won't stop on a dime but it was better than before.

And my brake fluid was BLACK.

Buddah

well, before we jump to any conclusions I'll answer a few questions...1) yes, dirty brake fluid is a direct cause of loss of braking ability as exactly as NovaDust described it. 2) only use brake fluid as recommended by the manufacturer for that year vehicle...it's the safest way to go unless you've got a full brake system upgrade. My suggestion is to perform a full brake system flush. Refill with new brake fluid and try driving for a lil while. If problems still persist, it's the brake master cylinder. (note: if the brakes were inspected correctly and all other mechanical possibilites have been ruled out.) But, since, that is an expensive job to endure, I'd suggest go for the brake inspection, and brake fluid flush for now. If worst comes to worse, then change the master cylinder. But, I always recommend going the inexpensive route first. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Buddah.

imported_loudsubz

thanks guys...

buddah, to flush the system do i just do it the ol dirty way with pumping, then purginging the valve,... continue this untill no air bubles/or dirty fluid comes out and keep the clyinder topped up? or is there a faster, easier way/

imported_loudsubz

does CT have dot 4 or 5? I usually pick up some stp dot 3 normally i cant recall seeing dot 4/5

Buddah

You can do it the old fashioned way of course. One way is to do a gravity bleed and that entails taking the cap off the reservoir, taking the bleeders off and just let the fluid drip out or, keep the cap on the reservoir on and pump the crap outta the brakes one at a time to bleed the system completely keeping in mind to pop the fluid up. Or, some places have a closed compression flush machine that flushes the system with compressed air. All methods work and do sort of the same job. Only difference is time. hope that helps.

Cheers,
Buddah.

Buddah

brake fluid for hondas should be purchased from honda only. much like their transmission fluids, most hondas aren't compatible with the fluids offered from CT. I'd suggest making a visit to Parkway and seeing Brett about this matter.

Cheers,
Buddah.

imported_loudsubz

thanks Budda

if i do gravity feed does it entail the same procedue to do one side at a time, or take off all sides and let them drain?

Buddah

Take the cap off the reservoir and open all the bleeders up...that's a gravity bleed. Gravity will draw the fluid down and out. Once most of it is out, close up the bleeders and pump the brake while opening one bleeder at a time to get the fluid stuck in the brake lines out..remember to top up the fluid after each bleeder. Good luck with it...any questions, just pm me.

Cheers,
Buddah.

imported_loudsubz

thanks a bunch, all my questions have been answered much appreciated boys

Buddah

np

imported_BoOsTd

I just wanted to double highlight this for the sake of you not having to go through the hasttle of bleeding your master

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

that's not just air in the lines... a failure like that, where you have no brakes... it goes beyond just air in the lines, at least not in the traditional sense.... you MAY have air in the master cylinder, which calls for a bench bleeding. does your car have ABS? sometimes, when ABS performs it's self check, you lose your brakes momentarily. but you say it's happened more than once, so it's prolly not that simple.

For fluid recomendations, I do NOT recommend DOT5 fluid... I think it's synthetic and does not agree with our brakes. What has been used time and again by smart folk who race... is Ford Focus SVT fluid. You can buy it from the dealer. IMO, if it doesn't come in a METAL container, it's not worth buying. Also ATE Blue... and Motul 600 are good alternatives.

scott newman

You cant use dot 5 brake fluid it is a silicon based brake fluid, and not compatable with any imports and most domestic vehicles, the only vehicles that use this regularly is some old domestics and Harley Davidson. The only difference between dot 3 and 4 is that 4 has a higher boiling point. They are made differently but the boiling point is the only thing that we are really concerned with. If you put dot 5 in it will errode the rubber in the master and the o rings in the calipers soon time. Dont use it!! Brake fluid is brake fluid for the speeds and weight of the cars. the higher number is more for racing applications where the brake fluid will over heat. I would check to make sure that there is not a siezed sliding pin or somthing on the calipers because once it pumpped up and you had pressure then it didnt go down, if it was a fluid problem or a master then the brake pedal would still sink. The spec is 30mm after you have pressure for 3-5 minutes when the car is off. I measure from the brake pedal to the steering wheel. If there is a siezed sliding pin or somthing, when you apply the brakes, the caliper tries to slide to the rotor and when it gets stuck, the bracket flexes, when you release brake pressure, the caliper carrier goes back to its normal position, pushing the pistion in the caliper way too far, then you need a few pumps to get solid contact with the pads on the rotor. Just a thought, I have run into this numerous times.

imported_loudsubz

damn, more things to check lol

this is the first time it ever happened to me, Never had any problems untill boom, im driving down a hill and they give out totally...

if it was a seized sliding pin would my brakes still work after being pumped? Like as soon as pressure is built they stay and everything feels normal, it has good braking power, and even if I let go for a brief second and put pressure back on again they grab fine?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

plz clarify... did the brake pedal sink right to the floor? or did you just have no power assist??

imported_loudsubz

sink right to the floor

I was going down a steep hill, put my foot on the brake and felt NO pressure at all, i pushed untill it didn't go anymore and the brakes did not catch at all, I had to do a couple of full pumps from top to the bottom to get it to build pressure.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I'd start with bench bleeding the M/C... then trying it again. if you get the same thing, replace the M/C. I don't care how much air you got in the lines, the pedal will not sink to the floor like that. It would if the M/C was dead... it also would if you had a leak in your lines somewhere. check the wheel cylinders and each fitting for leaks/corrosion.

Buddah

OUCH!...a bench bleed??? really think that's necessary? air in the lines will give the same symptom. I don't know...it doesn't sound like air in the m/c...just air in the lines. Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Buddah.