imported_nautica_t

Okay first off, I drive a 4th gen (88-91). I just installed new front brake pads, did not changed the rotor, it still has some decent meat on it. I did everything right, I bleaded the brakes to take out the air in the lines both sides with the motor on.

Car stops, but the pedal is very soft, like i can't lock the brakes, i have literally hit the floor boards until i actually get it to stop, like there's to much play in my brakes, so me and my dad decided to adjust the rear drums and blead them as well, well since 4th gen is fairly old, the driver side, blead nipple snapped off while trying to unscrew, so we couldn't blead it, we even filled up the brake fluid with DOT 3 but i have no idea why i have to press it so far down to actually have it to start stopping.
can anybody help out?

this is a very dangerious condition to drive in, espicially if i'm on the highway alot, i need those brakes. any help would be appriciated.

oh we tried bleading the front brakes twice, on the 2nd time, we decided to blead the rear's as well. thanks
if i missed out on anything, or unsure of anything, i'll inform while help is granted, TIA

Whiplash

sounds like the system still has air in it..

ummm..why'd you have the engine running?? i've done a few and have never heard of that one..

also, you never would have had to do the rears, completely different lines, not connected the the fronts (unless you let the reservoir drain so it sucked in air..)

did you compress the pistons when installing the new pads????
possibly they're rusted out a bit and once pushed in completely they've gotten sticky against the seal....

imported_nautica_t

my dad says to do it taht way so that the brake pump can pump the brake fluid.
-> yeap i had to re-compress the piston so that the new pads were to fit, otherwise i couldn't close the caliper.

-> okay, we thought, b-cuz the padel was so loose, we had to adjust the rears, since we bleaded the front already, so we bleaded them again, and adjusted the rears, okay, i'll keep a heads up on that in the future

-> yeah, my dad saw the piston pushing on the pads, so it wasn't sticky.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

You didn't bleed them right, or if you didn't have a 2x4 under the brake pedal while bleeding, then you damaged the master cylinder. Shut the car off... let it sit for 2 minutes.... hit the brake and pump it 4 times, and hold it. The pedal should feel firm and not sink to the floor. Now, start the car, and within 10-20 seconds, the pedal should sink about 1" and stop... if it continues to sink, it's either air in the lines or a leaky master cylinder. The 2x4 on the floor prevents the master cylinder from bottoming out from pedal pressure, so if you bottomed it out, you coulda screwed something... check it out!

imported_nautica_t

hey bbarbulo, how do i check to see if the master cylinder is leaking? and perhaps i did bottom it out? Is there any symptoms when it bottoms out? I think i pressed it a little to far down because my driver side didn't blead, but the right side was, so i had to press it a little further for it to blead? could that of caused it to bottom out? and as for screwy/damages, what am i looking at?

-> should i try to blead them again? if i do blead them again, should i still stick a 2x4 under the padel, and should i have the engine running while doing it?

-> and actually i tried that method, i tried pumping the pedal and than it was very firm, it probably moved about an inch like you said, and than started the car, the padel stilll went reasonably far down, so i 'm assuming i probably damaged something, but i will try to blead again.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Leaky master cylinder is recognized by having the pedal continue to sink with the car running and being sure your brakes are bled right. The car should not run while bleeding. Bleed the brakes again... be SURE that everything is done right.... follow the correct order of bleeding (should be in your repair manual - walmart $17.99 for a Chilton). Also pick up a bleeding kit from walmart or CT. So bleed everything again, following the correct order and topping off your reservoir. Be sure there is no air in the lines. There should be a 2x4 under the pedal while bleeding. Test drive your car... if the pedal is STILL spongy or the pedal continues to sink when at a full stop and the car is running, then it's your master cylinder. With the car off... and you pump the brake, the pedal should get firm and stay firm when you hold it... if it sinks with the car off while holding, then your booster is leaking... There is no visible leak, it's just a series of o-rings that pass over holes that determine where the pressure goes... so a leaky master cylinder means that pressure/fluid is blowing by an o-ring and going into the wrong chamber. So buy a manual, bleed the brakes accoriding to the manual, and try again... then tell us how the brake feels.

imported_nautica_t

okay, about the padel, i did try pumping it and it does stick and does not go down, it doesn't sink when i hit the brakes, its just the travel of the actual brake padel nearly depleted to the ground until the car actually starts to stop, like if i were to slam on the brakes, i don't think my wheels would lock. that's how far down i have to go just to get it to stop. i mean, it goes as far down as the clutch.

i have a helms manual, so i will blead them again, with the engine off this time, and see what happens, i haven't gotten around to it yet, b-cuz i'm still in school, and i want to find out properly before doing it again.

is it really necessary to get a bleading kit?? but i will if worst case scenerio calls for it.

okay, one more quick question, bbarbulo, why does the passanger side blead easier than the driver's side? like for the passanger side, i just have to slightly press it and it would blead, but the driver's side, i have to press it alot further down? could this be the reason why, i have to press farthur down to actually get the car to start stopping??

thanks for all the info.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

no prob... the bleeding kit is not 100% necessary, but it makes it a lot easier, making sure the tube doesn't pop out of the fluid, sucking in air. As for the difference in pass and driver side... you prolly have a LOT more air in one side than the other (drivers side has more air)... always press it equally all the way to the 2x4, and do them in order like it says in the book... you HAVE to bleed all four. The old fluid will be slightly brownish, so you will know when you have displaced all the fluid... I usually run about one little bottle through the whole system, then start bleeding with a fresh bottle and do it once, then bleed it one final time start to finish. I'm quite certain this is your problem! Have patience....