best bang for buck (engine swap)
07-Jul-2004, 01:33 PM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pickering
Posts: 3,984
Originally posted by Import Racer
Umm....I don't think so.
1st of all, $2000 will not get him close to that setup
2nd, if you'll be putting a CR-Vtec or LS-Vtec together, I dont see any point unless you build the motor up, which he'll probably need another $11,000-$13,000 on top of his $2000. And that will get him roughly 190 hp to the wheels.
For $2000, he doesn't really have that many options.
I agree with JookSingKid.....with that money, take care of your suspension first.
Umm....I don't think so.
1st of all, $2000 will not get him close to that setup
2nd, if you'll be putting a CR-Vtec or LS-Vtec together, I dont see any point unless you build the motor up, which he'll probably need another $11,000-$13,000 on top of his $2000. And that will get him roughly 190 hp to the wheels.
For $2000, he doesn't really have that many options.
I agree with JookSingKid.....with that money, take care of your suspension first.
and total swap cost is about $4000, give or take ALL possible issues WITH extra money on top !
THAT's ofcourse, IFFF you do it yourself.
07-Jul-2004, 07:41 PM
#64
Luka
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,319
Originally posted by Cablerat
H22 stock will get you around 180WHP if tuned properly.
and total swap cost is about $4000, give or take ALL possible issues WITH extra money on top !
THAT's ofcourse, IFFF you do it yourself.
H22 stock will get you around 180WHP if tuned properly.
and total swap cost is about $4000, give or take ALL possible issues WITH extra money on top !
THAT's ofcourse, IFFF you do it yourself.
08-Jul-2004, 02:43 AM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 438
Import Racer
My cuz spent $1400 to build his b20 vtec. Using all stock internals, with a 2nd gen b16a head.
mind you he already had the tranny and ecu.
He prefers this set up much better than the b18c5 he previously had (ran 13.7 1/4 mile with as well)
i've heard horror stories with b20B's with a vtec head,
Both my friend, and my cousin both run b20 vtec using b20Z bottem ends and have no probs.
And it didn't cost them much at all to do it.
I posted my opinion based on information I personally know and experience on a daily basis.
B20Z can be had for around $1100
2nd gen SIR head $5-600
Getting the head drilled/machined roughly $200 w/ oil feed lines
B series Tranny $450 ++ (ls, sir, gsr etc..)
ECU $200
So say for around $2600 give or take you got yourself a really sick motor.........w/ tons of torque
So Im going to say again, for the money w/ the know how............b20 vtec or ls vtec is the shiznit!!!
BUT like others have replied, for $2000 INSTALLED you wouldn't get a set up like that.
I'd have to agree that for $2000 installed, your best bet would be to go b18b, and later on turbo it or you can slap a vtec head on it and make it a ls vtec.
b18b alone is a quick motor in civics.
And if you need experience what either b20 vtec feels like, or the straight b18b.
Shoot me a PM, and I can arrange something with my cuz to meet you up and have him take you for a boot.........and i'll have our friend come along (were putting a b18b in his ek hatch soon).
My cuz spent $1400 to build his b20 vtec. Using all stock internals, with a 2nd gen b16a head.
mind you he already had the tranny and ecu.
He prefers this set up much better than the b18c5 he previously had (ran 13.7 1/4 mile with as well)
i've heard horror stories with b20B's with a vtec head,
Both my friend, and my cousin both run b20 vtec using b20Z bottem ends and have no probs.
And it didn't cost them much at all to do it.
I posted my opinion based on information I personally know and experience on a daily basis.
B20Z can be had for around $1100
2nd gen SIR head $5-600
Getting the head drilled/machined roughly $200 w/ oil feed lines
B series Tranny $450 ++ (ls, sir, gsr etc..)
ECU $200
So say for around $2600 give or take you got yourself a really sick motor.........w/ tons of torque
So Im going to say again, for the money w/ the know how............b20 vtec or ls vtec is the shiznit!!!
BUT like others have replied, for $2000 INSTALLED you wouldn't get a set up like that.
I'd have to agree that for $2000 installed, your best bet would be to go b18b, and later on turbo it or you can slap a vtec head on it and make it a ls vtec.
b18b alone is a quick motor in civics.
And if you need experience what either b20 vtec feels like, or the straight b18b.
Shoot me a PM, and I can arrange something with my cuz to meet you up and have him take you for a boot.........and i'll have our friend come along (were putting a b18b in his ek hatch soon).
09-Jul-2004, 07:19 AM
#71
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 97
Originally posted by Import Racer
Actually, I kinda doubt it too. 200HP will probably be about 160-165 to the wheels.
Actually, I kinda doubt it too. 200HP will probably be about 160-165 to the wheels.
I seen a H22 civic put out 186 to the wheels!
If you have a rear wheel drive car however, you can expect to loose a lot more power due to losses in the drivelines and differential, etc... and all wheel drive.. jeez, say goodbye to a lot more of your power!
09-Jul-2004, 10:57 AM
#75
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
Originally posted by djtrini
Import Racer
B20Z can be had for around $1100
I'd have to agree that for $2000 installed, your best bet would be to go b18b,
Import Racer
B20Z can be had for around $1100
I'd have to agree that for $2000 installed, your best bet would be to go b18b,
but, for 2 gs, why not just stop at the b20z, non vtec
thats bang for your buck right there people look right past it, cuz its non vtec... its a solid motor without vtec, and cheap, reliable, economical...
09-Jul-2004, 01:40 PM
#76
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 438
It all depends on what your plans are when using a b20.
if your planning to go boost, the LS block would be optimal as it is a stronger block than the b20 block. The b20 block on boost (stock) can only handle about 4-5 PSI, Anymore than that you'll need to re-sleeve it.
i've seen ppl do 8 psi on a LS block (stock)
if your planning to go boost, the LS block would be optimal as it is a stronger block than the b20 block. The b20 block on boost (stock) can only handle about 4-5 PSI, Anymore than that you'll need to re-sleeve it.
i've seen ppl do 8 psi on a LS block (stock)
09-Jul-2004, 06:37 PM
#77
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Posts: 108
ayayaya,
Ok Ill just give you some pointers and 2cents.
-If you boost, you will eventually blow the bottom end, so you might as well build it beforehand. If someone tells you that you wont blow it, they are either talking about a greddy kit at base boost and good tuning without abusing the car. Or, they dont have a single clue what they are talking about. A turbo isnt just installing a kit and driving away. You need tuning, guages, better tires, new clutch, a 4 wheel disk brakes conversion. You will probably want to replace some of the parts that come in a kit as they are crap. As mentioned, you also need a minimum of a piston/rods combo.
-B20, the sleeves suck, have you ever seen a b20 rod? I can use one as a toothpick. Going b20 is good if you plan on putting some substantial cash into it.
-LS/Vtec, again, inless you are willing to put substantial cash into the system, its not worth doing it.
-GSR, 140 WHP, good powerband, has more Tq then a SIR, very usefull in a lighter car like a civic. Would benefit from an IM without the butterfly.
-Type R, will make 160 WHP, on a good day and expensive I/H/E will give you 180-185 WHP
-H22A, Big engine, not really meant for the civic frame, the shere size and weight will have a substancial effect on handeling. It also requires quite a bit of work to actualy stick the thing in the bay.
My personal and lame opionion is to I/H/E what you have and be happy. Going fast will do nothing but cost you all your hard earned money and boost your ego. What does that do for you? nothing but either get you pulled over or get you killed. I had a $10,000 bottom end on my hands at one point, It just suddenly hit me that I just spent $10,000 for well umm nothing.
Im an engine building junky, I love fast cars, but I learned to take pictures of the guys who spend all their money on them and to save that money and buy a real sports car like a vette or something one day. I am selling my car to buy a single camera for work. You may think I'm stupid, but I get to work 1 day/week and earn enough to pay for my monthly expenses, and Im a student..........While some guys work 3 jobs ,7 days a week, just to soup up their car.
Ill tell you some stuff I learned from my own experience and others experiences. Make the right decision and try not to blow all your money. A car is a liability, not an investment. If you spend on it the money is gone. Dont think that if your car is worth 2 grand and you spend 10 grand in mods you are going to get 12 grand for the car, its not how it works.
The moral of the second part of my post, you will come to regret spending every penny you did or will spend on your car in the future. Maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but one day you will. So decide wisely.
Sorry to really throw this into anyones face, thats just my opinion, I have no intentions of upsetting anyone, its just my opinion on what he should do, just as you guys express yours.
Ok Ill just give you some pointers and 2cents.
-If you boost, you will eventually blow the bottom end, so you might as well build it beforehand. If someone tells you that you wont blow it, they are either talking about a greddy kit at base boost and good tuning without abusing the car. Or, they dont have a single clue what they are talking about. A turbo isnt just installing a kit and driving away. You need tuning, guages, better tires, new clutch, a 4 wheel disk brakes conversion. You will probably want to replace some of the parts that come in a kit as they are crap. As mentioned, you also need a minimum of a piston/rods combo.
-B20, the sleeves suck, have you ever seen a b20 rod? I can use one as a toothpick. Going b20 is good if you plan on putting some substantial cash into it.
-LS/Vtec, again, inless you are willing to put substantial cash into the system, its not worth doing it.
-GSR, 140 WHP, good powerband, has more Tq then a SIR, very usefull in a lighter car like a civic. Would benefit from an IM without the butterfly.
-Type R, will make 160 WHP, on a good day and expensive I/H/E will give you 180-185 WHP
-H22A, Big engine, not really meant for the civic frame, the shere size and weight will have a substancial effect on handeling. It also requires quite a bit of work to actualy stick the thing in the bay.
My personal and lame opionion is to I/H/E what you have and be happy. Going fast will do nothing but cost you all your hard earned money and boost your ego. What does that do for you? nothing but either get you pulled over or get you killed. I had a $10,000 bottom end on my hands at one point, It just suddenly hit me that I just spent $10,000 for well umm nothing.
Im an engine building junky, I love fast cars, but I learned to take pictures of the guys who spend all their money on them and to save that money and buy a real sports car like a vette or something one day. I am selling my car to buy a single camera for work. You may think I'm stupid, but I get to work 1 day/week and earn enough to pay for my monthly expenses, and Im a student..........While some guys work 3 jobs ,7 days a week, just to soup up their car.
Ill tell you some stuff I learned from my own experience and others experiences. Make the right decision and try not to blow all your money. A car is a liability, not an investment. If you spend on it the money is gone. Dont think that if your car is worth 2 grand and you spend 10 grand in mods you are going to get 12 grand for the car, its not how it works.
The moral of the second part of my post, you will come to regret spending every penny you did or will spend on your car in the future. Maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but one day you will. So decide wisely.
Sorry to really throw this into anyones face, thats just my opinion, I have no intentions of upsetting anyone, its just my opinion on what he should do, just as you guys express yours.
suks but i did learn thats for sure...ima do exactly what u said, buy a REAL sports car one day...
10-Jul-2004, 01:48 AM
#79
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: I used to have a Civic, now I'm spoolin'
Posts: 1,254
Sounds like wisdom is rearing it's head...Sometimes it is better to have an engine that is RELIABLE and has a modest HP gain - than to throw piles on money on something that may not run properly or be undrivable. A 40-50hp increase on what you have now will be one hell of an improvement.The money you save could be used for suspension and braking. Everyone talks about making HP - but if your suspension and braking is not up to snuff - what is the point?
10-Jul-2004, 08:15 AM
#80
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
Originally posted by Persian-Rice
ayayaya,
Ok Ill just give you some pointers and 2cents.
-If you boost, you will eventually blow the bottom end, so you might as well build it beforehand. If someone tells you that you wont blow it, they are either talking about a greddy kit at base boost and good tuning without abusing the car. Or, they dont have a single clue what they are talking about. A turbo isnt just installing a kit and driving away. You need tuning, guages, better tires, new clutch, a 4 wheel disk brakes conversion. You will probably want to replace some of the parts that come in a kit as they are crap. As mentioned, you also need a minimum of a piston/rods combo.
-B20, the sleeves suck, have you ever seen a b20 rod? I can use one as a toothpick. Going b20 is good if you plan on putting some substantial cash into it.
-LS/Vtec, again, inless you are willing to put substantial cash into the system, its not worth doing it.
-GSR, 140 WHP, good powerband, has more Tq then a SIR, very usefull in a lighter car like a civic. Would benefit from an IM without the butterfly.
-Type R, will make 160 WHP, on a good day and expensive I/H/E will give you 180-185 WHP
-H22A, Big engine, not really meant for the civic frame, the shere size and weight will have a substancial effect on handeling. It also requires quite a bit of work to actualy stick the thing in the bay.
My personal and lame opionion is to I/H/E what you have and be happy. Going fast will do nothing but cost you all your hard earned money and boost your ego. What does that do for you? nothing but either get you pulled over or get you killed. I had a $10,000 bottom end on my hands at one point, It just suddenly hit me that I just spent $10,000 for well umm nothing.
Im an engine building junky, I love fast cars, but I learned to take pictures of the guys who spend all their money on them and to save that money and buy a real sports car like a vette or something one day. I am selling my car to buy a single camera for work. You may think I'm stupid, but I get to work 1 day/week and earn enough to pay for my monthly expenses, and Im a student..........While some guys work 3 jobs ,7 days a week, just to soup up their car.
Ill tell you some stuff I learned from my own experience and others experiences. Make the right decision and try not to blow all your money. A car is a liability, not an investment. If you spend on it the money is gone. Dont think that if your car is worth 2 grand and you spend 10 grand in mods you are going to get 12 grand for the car, its not how it works.
The moral of the second part of my post, you will come to regret spending every penny you did or will spend on your car in the future. Maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but one day you will. So decide wisely.
Sorry to really throw this into anyones face, thats just my opinion, I have no intentions of upsetting anyone, its just my opinion on what he should do, just as you guys express yours.
ayayaya,
Ok Ill just give you some pointers and 2cents.
-If you boost, you will eventually blow the bottom end, so you might as well build it beforehand. If someone tells you that you wont blow it, they are either talking about a greddy kit at base boost and good tuning without abusing the car. Or, they dont have a single clue what they are talking about. A turbo isnt just installing a kit and driving away. You need tuning, guages, better tires, new clutch, a 4 wheel disk brakes conversion. You will probably want to replace some of the parts that come in a kit as they are crap. As mentioned, you also need a minimum of a piston/rods combo.
-B20, the sleeves suck, have you ever seen a b20 rod? I can use one as a toothpick. Going b20 is good if you plan on putting some substantial cash into it.
-LS/Vtec, again, inless you are willing to put substantial cash into the system, its not worth doing it.
-GSR, 140 WHP, good powerband, has more Tq then a SIR, very usefull in a lighter car like a civic. Would benefit from an IM without the butterfly.
-Type R, will make 160 WHP, on a good day and expensive I/H/E will give you 180-185 WHP
-H22A, Big engine, not really meant for the civic frame, the shere size and weight will have a substancial effect on handeling. It also requires quite a bit of work to actualy stick the thing in the bay.
My personal and lame opionion is to I/H/E what you have and be happy. Going fast will do nothing but cost you all your hard earned money and boost your ego. What does that do for you? nothing but either get you pulled over or get you killed. I had a $10,000 bottom end on my hands at one point, It just suddenly hit me that I just spent $10,000 for well umm nothing.
Im an engine building junky, I love fast cars, but I learned to take pictures of the guys who spend all their money on them and to save that money and buy a real sports car like a vette or something one day. I am selling my car to buy a single camera for work. You may think I'm stupid, but I get to work 1 day/week and earn enough to pay for my monthly expenses, and Im a student..........While some guys work 3 jobs ,7 days a week, just to soup up their car.
Ill tell you some stuff I learned from my own experience and others experiences. Make the right decision and try not to blow all your money. A car is a liability, not an investment. If you spend on it the money is gone. Dont think that if your car is worth 2 grand and you spend 10 grand in mods you are going to get 12 grand for the car, its not how it works.
The moral of the second part of my post, you will come to regret spending every penny you did or will spend on your car in the future. Maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but one day you will. So decide wisely.
Sorry to really throw this into anyones face, thats just my opinion, I have no intentions of upsetting anyone, its just my opinion on what he should do, just as you guys express yours.
smart man
your thinking from experience most of the younger guys will laugh at your post, and say your only young once yadayada... just like everything, the novelty wares off, you get 200hp it feels slow after a week... then it has engine trouble, then your thinking **** i wish i had my old car back that got me to work every day.
Back to the topic tho, A b20z na non vtec is the best bang for your buck
sure its weak internals, but if your not planning on makeing it a crazy engine, then it wont break. I would take one anyday over a b16, and a b185 is just too much money. I think the b20 is the perfect balance between price and performance... it wont be the fastet car out there, but it will be quick and fun, for the money spent, not to mention reliable, economical ect...
