bronx

what is the power output of this setup aproximately?

is it the same as GSR motor?,

stronger or weaker?

imported_spl_civic

more expensive
and power depends on the build

imported_b16turbohatch

there is no set power number for this swap becasue they all depend on diff things. but my guess is a little less than the gsr.

1sloweg

around 140-150 whp and 120-126 ft/lbs of torque

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

^^^^ sure if you slap a stock b16 head on a stock b18a/b block.
If built properly it will make more power than a gsr and a type R. The b18a/b has a longer stroke, which translates to more torque, but also means more strain on the engine at higher rpms.
A gsr is better b/c it has oil squirters to cool the pistons down at high rpms, a block girdle for stability, better oil and water pumps, and was built for vtec. So you don't need to have an external vtec oil feed line, unlike the lsvtec.
The thing about lsvtecs are that the blocks are cheap and easy to find, the block is pretty strong, and they are very powerful if built right. I mean don't expect huge numbers if all you do is slap a vtec head on a stock bottom end.
I would actually NOT suggest this at all. The bare minimum for a lsvtec is ARP rod bolts, vtec water pump and head studs. But for a good, reliable, powerful setup i would:
Balance the rotating assembly and new rod and main bearings
Get ARP rod bolts machined into the LS rods and shot peen them while you are at it
Vtec oil and water pump, gsr/type R timing belt (necessary if using a vtec water pump since it has more teeth and a smaller pulley)
pr3/p30 (b16), p73 (integra type R), or PCT (civic type R) pistons to raise the compression
Vtec oil feed line
Machine the head to fit the ls dowel pins
Plug the oil feed hole in the head
ARP head studs
ITR/CTR cams, or an aftermarket cam of your choice
Engine management (vafc, uberdata, hondata, standalone)
You have to realize that in order to build a lsvtec thats going to last and make good power is pretty expensive.
But i've seen built lsvtecs make over 200whp and 140tq. Now thats way more than a type R.

Dr.K

Yes beacuse an LS has 1834cc's of Displacement and a Vtec B18 only has 1797cc's. With Identicle heads the bigger engine will make more power. BUT its not designed to rev that high. It does not have the block Girdle or the Oil sprayer's as mentioned before. It will make more power but the Durability is severly sacrificed. Its a topic that is widely argued. Personally I went and Bought a B16 block because its more reliable than an LS/Vtec. on teh LS The Rod-Stroke ratio is lower Hence it make's more torque but there is more sideloading on the cylinder walls. And Finnaly, If it was that good wouldn't Honda have done it out of the factory? No, Because they build there engine's to last and live through warranty. Thats why they decreased teh stroke and increased teh Rod stroke ratio.. If its only a summer car and you intend on racing then go for it. But if its your daily driver i wouldn't recomend it.

Mugen Power

wow, another misinformed person. there are arguments for every fact that you listed, but, some of the fastest cars out there are hybrids. when built properly, an LSV/B20V is more than reliable. and, its not nearly as weak as we are lead to believe. the only people that can tell you about the reliability of Frankstein motors are those that run them. the misconception is that you can't rev lsv's. well, why would you rev it high if it makes its power a bit lower? the benefit of 18c's are the fact that it has a crank girdle slightly better r/s ratio. but, most of the fastest all motor Honda's in North America are lsv's & b20v's. the VTEC acronym has people fooled. everbody thinks that these motors are designed to rev up to 9K all day. good luck. with displacement comes lower peak power. look at the new S2K. .2L more displacement, more h.p & tq, yet it has an 800rpm lower redline. would you rather have the higher revving S2K that makes less power? i can tell you exactly what the problem is with lsv's & b20v's, because i just went through some rough times with mine. its all about the quality of fittings used to tap the block and feed oil to the head. and, not overrevving the motor. mine b20v peaks at 7600rpm. where do i shift......7600. i need my motor to last. abuse and reliability do not go had and hand. oh yeah, i can't stress the importance of tuning. why do people expect an lsv to rev as high as an ITR? it makes more power at a lower rpm, has a broader powerband, yet, people want them to rev upto and beyond 9K. if you want to rev an lsv that high, you will have to supply the necessary work. good head porting, big cams, custom header, balanced reciprocating mass, ARP fasteners etc. it can and will get pricey, but, i'd rather build an lsv than spend $2400 for a jdm b18c with unknown kms. as for reliability, my bone stock B20V with oem rodbolts, water pump, oil pump hits 7600rpm daily and hasn't flinched yet. "knock on wood". here are a few links

http://www.importreview.com/reviews/lsvtec.html

http://www.norcalcrx.org/dyno/b16a_vs_b18a.gif

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1062624

( ^ my boy's non-vtec b20 thread)

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=965320

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1078612

http://www.omnipowerusa.com/Dyno/Default.asp

(^ stockblock, destroked 220+whp b20. only 10.7/1 c.r.)

Dr.K

http://www.phatwhippincrx.20m.com/custom4.html

There's a good article mentioning the Pro's and Cons. Ya your right the most powerfull NA cars are LS/Vtec's. But thats merely from displacement. If you stroked it or made a CRVtec(2.0ltr) than you'd make more power still. Doesn't hide the fact the bottom end isn't up to par. And how am I misinformed if there's arguments to all that I listed? If there was arguments than wouldn't that mean other people share my View's? Hence im not misinformed.I jsut prefer Vtec blocks to LS/Vtec's.I'll take my power way up high thank you.
And abotu the S2000?......Actually I would rather take the higher redline. I was pissed when they dropped it for tha sake of Torque and Whiniing Journalist's. Run of the mill teg's rev to 8000. And now honda dropped the redline of our beloved S2000 so it doesn't Rev to 8900 anymore...pissed me right off. I drove a pair of S2000's and they were a blast to drive. Im sure there still fun But I liked the Fact they revved that high. They were worth buying for the sound alone.....lol

g-force

Dr.K- The girdle is there to stop movement of the mains when you rev the pants off it. If your power is made without reving the stink out of the motor the girdle serves no purpose. My LS/VTEC sits behind a SC61 turbo with no girdle or oil sqwirters. I use forged pistons to bypass the oil sqwirter bit and balance my bottom end to rev smoothly through the powerband which I don't have to rev to 9000rpm to get. I shift at 8200rpm and make lots more torque then any N/A setup will ever make at double the hp. So don't fool yourself about the myth of rev = power. Whether it be N/A or turbo the bigger the disp[lacement is the lower the peak rpm limit is. So rev your car to 9000rpm if sound is what your after. But think of it this way. From 1000rpm to 7600rpm you would be behind on numbers all through your powerband then a motor with more displacement and lower revs. And if you think your going to make up the difference at 7600rpm to 9000rpm your sadly mistaken. 1500rpm is not going to help a lossing battle when if have been out numbered outta your powerband in all aspects. You reach peak numbers just for a blink, average hp is what wins races. So that is how you are misinformed. Its called basic math. Why tax it if you don't have to??

imported_trackhack

This theory has been explained a MILLION times.

Horsepower is a calculated number based on Torque.

HP= Torque x RPM/5252
Torque = HP x 5252/RPM

Based on the above equations Horsepower and Torque have to be identical at 5252 RPM regardless of displacement.(provided the engine is able to turn this rpm)

Looking at a Torque curve on a dyno, the engine with the greatest area under the torque curve will ALWAYS produce greater acceleration.

Though not civic related, this page describes the principle quite clearly.
http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

That said, Torque is based on displacement.
Adding forced induction whether it be Turbo or Supercharger effectively doubles your displacement, thereby creating more torque and greater acceleration.

Mugen Power

that last statement says it all. you'd buy a car for the sound alone? the funny thing is the best sounding variable valve timing enigine isn't even a Honda. its that Celica GT-S motor. the VVT-i 1.8L. its by far the meanest, nastiest and best sounding vtec out there. to be honest, it sounds so good that i believe Toyota spent more time tuning the sound than the engine itself. if you want to buy a car just for sound, go to EB. GT4 just came out on Tuesday. revving doesn't mean much when the motor is peaky. i.e.....a semi-built 84mm b16 with cams will peak at 9K, but, it will still only make 205whp. are you trying to tell me that a higher revving motor will make more power? well built b20v's make 200whp@7K. all of the time. check it out. the point that i'm trying to make is that if a motor is peaky, then, its powerband is very narrow. as for reliability, the reason why its is argued over and over is because people's opinions get in the way of actual fact. 99% of the people that don't like frankenstein motors are the ones that believe the various rumors. the people that defend it are the actually owners of hybrids. until you've owned and maintained one, you can't convince me otherwise. i own a gsr motor also. and i can tell you this, i won't need to rev above 8500rpm to make 200whp, and, i'm still retaining my oem manifold with the butterflies functioning. making good power is all about the set up and not how high you can rev. that's why Honda lower the redline on the S2K. it now has a broader powerband, is much more drivable around town and makes more power. displacement owns all.....end of story.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

thank you trackhack for your post. god bless you

Dr.K

"best sounding" would be personal Preference. Im jsut mentioning that because Ive driven a few and the sound is just to Die for. I bet GT4 is fun but Ive actually DRIVEN the Car, Have you? So the reliability is there yet you built up the Bottom end?...No ****. The thread started as "B16 head on B18 block". So we were talking abotu stock bottom end's. At the bare minimum you should shot peen your rods. Of course your LS/Vtec is super reliable cause you dealt with the bottom End!!!..Duh. But not all of us have time or money to pull apart our blocks and build them Up. Hence why I favour a B16 over an LS vtec. So if a built B20v makes 200hp at 7000 and the B16 make's 200 at 9000 who will win? Id say the B16. It doesn't matter how small your powerband is. If your car is geared properly you shouldn't fall out of Powerband. And on a Lightweight FWD car too much Torque is harder to handle. Especially on a not so smooth surface(street). So its apple's to Orange's. Take your Pick. You could argue this topic till your blue in the Face. But you even said yourself if you want a Reliable LS/Vtec you have to adress teh Bottom End. BUt you could jsut bolt a B16 in for around the same money and the bottom end is jsut that much better. Thats my .2cents

Dr.K

oh and btw... if two motor's make the same power yet one rev's higher the one that rev's higher will be faster. In theory you can have quicker gears and even reduce wheel diameter for faster acceleration.

g-force

Your inexperience speaks volumes. Which one will win a 200 hp B20 or a 200 hp B16. That has to be the stupidest thing I ever heard. If by 1000rpm increments from 0 to 7600rpm I make 10 to 15 whp and torque more then you right through til 7600rpm where a B20 would peak at 200hp. You will lose. If you can't comprehend simple math theres no point educating the blind. Don't get caught up in peak numbers, they mean **** unless you are on the highway maxing out YOUR PEAK AREA you talk about. In a race you are there for a split second then you pull the next gear and start again, from where????? thats right away from your peak numbers and in a area of the powerband where the B20 will separate itself from you. Don't continue to agrue about something you have no experience with. Your going off of what you precive to be common sense with no factual personal experience on the matter. Thats the main reason why people are confused about hybrids. Its called a lack of personal knowledge.

TheModFather

the amount of internet racers on here is unbelievable....

TheModFather

i say all posts in this thread made by someoen who has never built an LS/vtec be pruned... then this thread woudl make a LOT more sense.....
edit: never built a HONDA engine...

Dr.K

When you shift gears you fall back around Peak TORQUE and rise to peak HORSEPOWER. And HP is jsut a #. You can only Measure Torque which is twisting force. So If your Engine Rev's higher you can have quicker gears and accelerate faster. Because simple math dictates that torque to the ground multiply's by gearing. And why are you mentioning hp from 1000RPM up?..When's the last time you launched your car from idle. When It come's to all out speed PEAK hp is what matter's. You shouldn't be at anything less than 6000RPM. But go ahead, call me an Idiot. An old Hemi's powerband is only 4000-5000 or so RPM. A 440's is around 2500-4500 RPM. The 440 has more displacement and make's more torque and has a fatter power band. But the Hemi was still faster.there's other factor's involved but even back in the day the car's powerband was only 1000RPM big. Just like now. Sure your sacrificing Driveability but were looking at the overall #'s right? So yes a broader powerband will make a Quick car easier to drive. A Car with high peak #'s will be more of a Bitch to drive but will be faster overall. You want to pull from peak Torque when your cylinder pressure is at its highest. And you want to make your #'s higher up to take advantage of gearing.

TheModFather

how come i have a buick regal... it has a 3.8 v6 SFI engine... and a 4speed auto
how come this was the fastest production car of 87 and it onyl had 203 peak crank HP?

TheModFather

thats because the motor made 350 lbs/ft of torque @ 2000RPM-4500rpm with a redline of 5300rpm. rev on that....
factory 13.5 sec 1/4 mile!