B18C1 GSR, turbo vs supercharger
 

just rebuilt my gsr block, its ready for nos, turbo, supercharger whatever i throw at it. any thoughts? i heard superchargers are much easier to install, cheaper, and simpler than turbos.

turbo is the only way to go imo. you have a lot more flexability than a sc, where if you want to turn up the boost you have to change out the pulley. with a turbo, you can simply add a boost controller, or change the spring in your wastegate, or if you run a synapse wastegate, just change the vacuum port configuration. superchargers are not as effecient on smaller engines as turbos. the only oem's putting superchargers on engines 2.0L and smaller is the lame ass cobalt and the like. you see turbos on everything from chryslers to mitsu's to subies to mazdas roll off the line from other oem's because they just make more sense.

it also depends on what you want to do with the car, but in most cases, you can compensate for turbo lag buy running a smaller turbo for things like autocrossing.

i'm with weiRtech, the only way i'd supercharge a honda is if its using an aftercooler/intercooler setup, otherwise the intake air temperatures get rediculously high, and hot air doesn't make good power. The last supercharged GSR i tuned had air temps in boost reaching 210+F, this was with a jackson racing supercharger with no aftercooler. Just for reference, a turbo car usually sees air temps around 100-110F in boost, if not lower, depending how efficient the intercooler is and its size.
I like the Prochargers, that style supercharger works well on hondas and can be intercooler rather easily. Whereas getting an air cooling system on a jackson racing supercharger requires sending it in to LHT and them building the aftercooler into your manifold. This helps dramatically lower the air temperatures, which mean more power b/c colder air is more dense, and the more dense the air the more power it will make with good tuning.
The Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor gets heatsoaked really fast on JRSC setups b/c its right in the intake manifold/charger so as the manifold heats up, so does the IAT sensor, giving the ecu a false reading of how warm the income air actually is.
This, along with the inability to easily control (increase or decrease) boost is the reason i like turbo's on hondas better than superchargers.

Superchargers are nice though, the instant boost is incredible and it makes for a really fun street car with all that torque and such linear power production. On that JRSC'd GSR i did, the car would make 5 psi at like 1800rpm, increased to 6-7psi through the midrange, made 8-8.5psi from 5000-7000rpm and dropped down to 7psi or so from 7000rpm up.
A typical boosted GSR with a 57 trim .60 a/r turbo (pretty average size) would start to make boost around 3000rpms and reach full boost (8psi for comparisons sake) by 4500rpms or so.

Well said.

1st and 2nd gear maybe even 3rd s/c all the way!
Turbo= lag
u dont want lag? get a smaller turbo, but then u get minimal power gains.
Even with a small turbo, lag would still be an issue.
JRSCs have NO LAG!

heres my S/C results post:

For those who dont know the build:

B18C5 jackson racing supercharged, M/I, 6psi, 440cc, 11:1, intake, header, stage 3 clutch, plus the rest here if you want to read more heres my car info thread from last year.
http://torontointegras.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=32761

I ended up with 227whp 155tq. at the 6psi tuned with Neptune. this is a gain of 47 whp, 24 tq from when i was N/A with a skunk 2 IM.
this was at Tag Racecraft, Tuned by Zman. He did a great job tuning the car as well as preparing the car for tuning (a couple small problems postponed our dyno session a couple hours).
I would definitely recommend Zman for tuning, and i would also like to thank Mel and his employees at Tag Racecraft for letting me use their dyno/shop and for lending a hand here and there.

Redlines moved up to 9000 rpm, vtec engagement now at 4000 rpm. No signs of detonation whatsoever even with my 11:1 compression. I was using just water for the injection, and on average it dropped IAT temps about 20-25 deg. F, usually not going over 150 at the top of a dyno pull.
I got one run in at the 1/4 mile and ran a 13.4 @105, compared to 14.09 @97.9 before the supercharger (180whp, 131tq). I still need to dial in my launch. Im looking into getting ETD traction bars to solve my wheel hop issue. The car has much more midrange torque. No more need to down**** for power anymore.



On the dyno With the JRSC (4th gear):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZoaHaK4xo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jvWHTIi63c
Delaware speedway King of the hill Aug 29:
civic vs civic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQw7FIinG4
civic vs viper (spun the tires a bit and slowed me down):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCd846HFLkg


11 psi and maybe a cam as well as a new tune planned for next spring.

Supercharged K engine is awesome and very reliable .....especially if its a DD.

just get spray... you can put regular in your car when you don't use it and still get the same mileage as stock then when you wanna play connect the bottle

because you don't need a turbo on the streets nor a supercharger do you really need the extra power on the street? the bottle you go to the track connect it and have fun

it is legal to have in your car as long the bottle is not connected

cops have seen what i have and i have not been harassed

spray is the poor man's boost.

though a pro mod car is just as fast on spray as blown... so the point is?

that it costs a lot less to spray your car than to boost it.....theres nothing wrong with n20.

The only problem with n20 is that it runs out and you'll have to keep filling bottles. After the season and bottle after bottle filled with the amount of $$$ you would have spent, you prolly could've bought all the turbo or supercharger parts to boost your car....you'll never run out of boost (unless something breaks).

bottles are for babies

and spooling is for grandma. your point?

I could totally see my grandma driving my boosted civic, wondering what that whistling noise is.

so if bottles are for babies and spooling is for grandma, i guess n/a is for rich idiots?

do both...that should be the best of both worlds acording to hannah montana

lol never heard that one but yeah i was just kidding i cant afford neither ahaha

already done ...

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...percharged-car

not idiots...it takes skills to do n/a and make power. rich a$$holes maybe?

VW FTW!!!!!

http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecac...auto_vw485.jpg

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2...en-twincharger

ya, but you gotta be an idiot to spend that kind of cash to make such little power....hahahahaha (no offense to anyone)

and turbo users are definitely over compensating for their uh...short comings.:P

spooling is for grandma's priceless!! i like the on/off nature of my kit lol it's like vtec LMAO

but I get to use regular when i don't use the kit and i don't use it often enough to really need a turbo or have i spent enought to buy one

it's a part time power adder i don't need a turbo to commute

it has nothing to do with one method being faster than the other, the point is, spray is cheaper to install than a supercharger or turbo setup.

Aside from the fact nitrous is now illegal. Do you really want a compressed oxidizer in your car? Think about a paramedic or fireman having to deal with a rescue with a highly compressed oxidizing gas (more than likely poorly installed) in a vehicle.

Bottom line, if your running nitrous in a street car. YOU ARE AN IDIOT:nono:

Besides that, a turbo or SC is definitely greater than N2O.

Onto the S/C - Turbo debate....

Turbo>S/C slim margin, but a real one :sorry:

Why you say -

-parasitic losses for one.
-Homo belts another.
-The whine noise gets irritating. Cool at first, but so are paddle shifters
-Fixed to low pressure levels (on most S/C design - ie roots/eaton)
-Difficult to intercool (LHT has a nice setup, D's are discontinued tho)
-Centrifugal units need oil lines (yeah I was surprised too!) ex Vortex
-Boost isn't ON DEMAND like it sounds.
The pressure levels you experience in your IM are based on your total VE levels, if you open up your exhaust, boost drops. Also, Boost is not linear like most ppl believe from an SC, the flow is linear. Boost will increase and decrease as VE changes throughout the RPM band. Usually this will follow your factory torque curve, multiplied by your increase over atmosphere times your VE. A turbo is regulated with expansive ability, an SC is fixed output.
-Spooling at 3-4k is NOT lag, that is your BOOST THRESHOLD. Lag consists of the timeframe of said application at say 5k coasting, to stomping on the gas. If its a ceramic BB application your talking about the same time it would take your JRSC bypass to close. A fraction of a second. A non BB Turbo is still less than a second. Read a book and then change your exhaust AR on your turbine.
-two words - VARIABLE VANE... it owns S/C even more. More torque ALL the time with lower losses than running a S/C

To end this off. Look at Europe, literally screwed in the arsehole from OPEC they primarily run turbos. Why you say - efficency. VW dabbled with the G-Ladder (which was really neat btw) in their corrado's but was worthless. All you see is 1.8T not G60 on the back of VW's now. BMW, Mercedes, Porche, Pugeot, Lotus, Renault, Ferrari, etc etc.... Who uses S/C - f-ing old buicks and pontiacs...really no comparison

I personally would supercharge it, but wouldn't use a Jackson Racing Supercharger. Roots style blowers are far less efficient than the Centrifical blowers Vortech uses..... plus, Roots blowers sound terrible.

BigJ5 post in here too.

http://www.torontocivics.com/tccv5forums/t148763/

rofl @ "-homo belts another"

With a supercharger boost is definately not linear, its more the torque curve thats very linear. However you'll be seeing positive pressure within 500rpm or so after punchin it with a s/c....ur car made like 2psi very quickly with the jrsc setup you had, even at very low rpms, which isn't full boost, but positive pressure nontheless. Did you ever have a boost gauge on your car with the jrsc? It would make boost at like 25% TPS iirc.

Superchargers are better off on an engine that already produces a lot of torque, i.e. a v8. They take power to make power (parasitic loss) so the higher the torque output of the engine the better the supercharger will work...essentially. Turbos are incredible on v8's so i'm not saying s/cs are better than turbos on v8's...what i'm saying is superchargers work better on v8's than small displacement 4 cylinders (hondas)

i was looking into sc/turbo for my k20 type-s ep3 ....

most people with k motors who SC, find that after 10lbs of boost - due to heat, they run into detonation/knock issues.

with a turbo that can be fixed with a good intercooler...

unless with the SC you wanna do REALLY high octane gas and meth injection.....meh.

and, the sound of a blowoff is hot :D

btw dont forget that you can always ride not hitting boost too hard, therefore save some gas vs s/c is always on leading to higher gas consumptions.