B18C1 GSR, turbo vs supercharger
18-May-2008, 08:35 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Waterloo
Posts: 6
B18C1 GSR, turbo vs supercharger
just rebuilt my gsr block, its ready for nos, turbo, supercharger whatever i throw at it. any thoughts? i heard superchargers are much easier to install, cheaper, and simpler than turbos.
19-May-2008, 06:44 AM
#2
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 86
turbo is the only way to go imo. you have a lot more flexability than a sc, where if you want to turn up the boost you have to change out the pulley. with a turbo, you can simply add a boost controller, or change the spring in your wastegate, or if you run a synapse wastegate, just change the vacuum port configuration. superchargers are not as effecient on smaller engines as turbos. the only oem's putting superchargers on engines 2.0L and smaller is the lame *** cobalt and the like. you see turbos on everything from chryslers to mitsu's to subies to mazdas roll off the line from other oem's because they just make more sense.
it also depends on what you want to do with the car, but in most cases, you can compensate for turbo lag buy running a smaller turbo for things like autocrossing.
it also depends on what you want to do with the car, but in most cases, you can compensate for turbo lag buy running a smaller turbo for things like autocrossing.
19-May-2008, 06:36 PM
#3
i'm with weiRtech, the only way i'd supercharge a honda is if its using an aftercooler/intercooler setup, otherwise the intake air temperatures get rediculously high, and hot air doesn't make good power. The last supercharged GSR i tuned had air temps in boost reaching 210+F, this was with a jackson racing supercharger with no aftercooler. Just for reference, a turbo car usually sees air temps around 100-110F in boost, if not lower, depending how efficient the intercooler is and its size.
I like the Prochargers, that style supercharger works well on hondas and can be intercooler rather easily. Whereas getting an air cooling system on a jackson racing supercharger requires sending it in to LHT and them building the aftercooler into your manifold. This helps dramatically lower the air temperatures, which mean more power b/c colder air is more dense, and the more dense the air the more power it will make with good tuning.
The Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor gets heatsoaked really fast on JRSC setups b/c its right in the intake manifold/charger so as the manifold heats up, so does the IAT sensor, giving the ecu a false reading of how warm the income air actually is.
This, along with the inability to easily control (increase or decrease) boost is the reason i like turbo's on hondas better than superchargers.
Superchargers are nice though, the instant boost is incredible and it makes for a really fun street car with all that torque and such linear power production. On that JRSC'd GSR i did, the car would make 5 psi at like 1800rpm, increased to 6-7psi through the midrange, made 8-8.5psi from 5000-7000rpm and dropped down to 7psi or so from 7000rpm up.
A typical boosted GSR with a 57 trim .60 a/r turbo (pretty average size) would start to make boost around 3000rpms and reach full boost (8psi for comparisons sake) by 4500rpms or so.
I like the Prochargers, that style supercharger works well on hondas and can be intercooler rather easily. Whereas getting an air cooling system on a jackson racing supercharger requires sending it in to LHT and them building the aftercooler into your manifold. This helps dramatically lower the air temperatures, which mean more power b/c colder air is more dense, and the more dense the air the more power it will make with good tuning.
The Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor gets heatsoaked really fast on JRSC setups b/c its right in the intake manifold/charger so as the manifold heats up, so does the IAT sensor, giving the ecu a false reading of how warm the income air actually is.
This, along with the inability to easily control (increase or decrease) boost is the reason i like turbo's on hondas better than superchargers.
Superchargers are nice though, the instant boost is incredible and it makes for a really fun street car with all that torque and such linear power production. On that JRSC'd GSR i did, the car would make 5 psi at like 1800rpm, increased to 6-7psi through the midrange, made 8-8.5psi from 5000-7000rpm and dropped down to 7psi or so from 7000rpm up.
A typical boosted GSR with a 57 trim .60 a/r turbo (pretty average size) would start to make boost around 3000rpms and reach full boost (8psi for comparisons sake) by 4500rpms or so.
20-May-2008, 01:37 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cool World
Posts: 778
i'm with weiRtech, the only way i'd supercharge a honda is if its using an aftercooler/intercooler setup, otherwise the intake air temperatures get rediculously high, and hot air doesn't make good power. The last supercharged GSR i tuned had air temps in boost reaching 210+F, this was with a jackson racing supercharger with no aftercooler. Just for reference, a turbo car usually sees air temps around 100-110F in boost, if not lower, depending how efficient the intercooler is and its size.
I like the Prochargers, that style supercharger works well on hondas and can be intercooler rather easily. Whereas getting an air cooling system on a jackson racing supercharger requires sending it in to LHT and them building the aftercooler into your manifold. This helps dramatically lower the air temperatures, which mean more power b/c colder air is more dense, and the more dense the air the more power it will make with good tuning.
The Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor gets heatsoaked really fast on JRSC setups b/c its right in the intake manifold/charger so as the manifold heats up, so does the IAT sensor, giving the ecu a false reading of how warm the income air actually is.
This, along with the inability to easily control (increase or decrease) boost is the reason i like turbo's on hondas better than superchargers.
Superchargers are nice though, the instant boost is incredible and it makes for a really fun street car with all that torque and such linear power production. On that JRSC'd GSR i did, the car would make 5 psi at like 1800rpm, increased to 6-7psi through the midrange, made 8-8.5psi from 5000-7000rpm and dropped down to 7psi or so from 7000rpm up.
A typical boosted GSR with a 57 trim .60 a/r turbo (pretty average size) would start to make boost around 3000rpms and reach full boost (8psi for comparisons sake) by 4500rpms or so.
I like the Prochargers, that style supercharger works well on hondas and can be intercooler rather easily. Whereas getting an air cooling system on a jackson racing supercharger requires sending it in to LHT and them building the aftercooler into your manifold. This helps dramatically lower the air temperatures, which mean more power b/c colder air is more dense, and the more dense the air the more power it will make with good tuning.
The Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor gets heatsoaked really fast on JRSC setups b/c its right in the intake manifold/charger so as the manifold heats up, so does the IAT sensor, giving the ecu a false reading of how warm the income air actually is.
This, along with the inability to easily control (increase or decrease) boost is the reason i like turbo's on hondas better than superchargers.
Superchargers are nice though, the instant boost is incredible and it makes for a really fun street car with all that torque and such linear power production. On that JRSC'd GSR i did, the car would make 5 psi at like 1800rpm, increased to 6-7psi through the midrange, made 8-8.5psi from 5000-7000rpm and dropped down to 7psi or so from 7000rpm up.
A typical boosted GSR with a 57 trim .60 a/r turbo (pretty average size) would start to make boost around 3000rpms and reach full boost (8psi for comparisons sake) by 4500rpms or so.
26-Sep-2008, 10:42 AM
#6
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 58
heres my S/C results post:
For those who dont know the build:
B18C5 jackson racing supercharged, M/I, 6psi, 440cc, 11:1, intake, header, stage 3 clutch, plus the rest here if you want to read more heres my car info thread from last year.
http://torontointegras.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=32761
I ended up with 227whp 155tq. at the 6psi tuned with Neptune. this is a gain of 47 whp, 24 tq from when i was N/A with a skunk 2 IM.
this was at Tag Racecraft, Tuned by Zman. He did a great job tuning the car as well as preparing the car for tuning (a couple small problems postponed our dyno session a couple hours).
I would definitely recommend Zman for tuning, and i would also like to thank Mel and his employees at Tag Racecraft for letting me use their dyno/shop and for lending a hand here and there.
Redlines moved up to 9000 rpm, vtec engagement now at 4000 rpm. No signs of detonation whatsoever even with my 11:1 compression. I was using just water for the injection, and on average it dropped IAT temps about 20-25 deg. F, usually not going over 150 at the top of a dyno pull.
I got one run in at the 1/4 mile and ran a 13.4 @105, compared to 14.09 @97.9 before the supercharger (180whp, 131tq). I still need to dial in my launch. Im looking into getting ETD traction bars to solve my wheel hop issue. The car has much more midrange torque. No more need to down**** for power anymore.
On the dyno With the JRSC (4th gear):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZoaHaK4xo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jvWHTIi63c
Delaware speedway King of the hill Aug 29:
civic vs civic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQw7FIinG4
civic vs viper (spun the tires a bit and slowed me down):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCd846HFLkg
11 psi and maybe a cam as well as a new tune planned for next spring.
For those who dont know the build:
B18C5 jackson racing supercharged, M/I, 6psi, 440cc, 11:1, intake, header, stage 3 clutch, plus the rest here if you want to read more heres my car info thread from last year.
http://torontointegras.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=32761
I ended up with 227whp 155tq. at the 6psi tuned with Neptune. this is a gain of 47 whp, 24 tq from when i was N/A with a skunk 2 IM.
this was at Tag Racecraft, Tuned by Zman. He did a great job tuning the car as well as preparing the car for tuning (a couple small problems postponed our dyno session a couple hours).
I would definitely recommend Zman for tuning, and i would also like to thank Mel and his employees at Tag Racecraft for letting me use their dyno/shop and for lending a hand here and there.
Redlines moved up to 9000 rpm, vtec engagement now at 4000 rpm. No signs of detonation whatsoever even with my 11:1 compression. I was using just water for the injection, and on average it dropped IAT temps about 20-25 deg. F, usually not going over 150 at the top of a dyno pull.
I got one run in at the 1/4 mile and ran a 13.4 @105, compared to 14.09 @97.9 before the supercharger (180whp, 131tq). I still need to dial in my launch. Im looking into getting ETD traction bars to solve my wheel hop issue. The car has much more midrange torque. No more need to down**** for power anymore.
On the dyno With the JRSC (4th gear):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ZoaHaK4xo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jvWHTIi63c
Delaware speedway King of the hill Aug 29:
civic vs civic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlQw7FIinG4
civic vs viper (spun the tires a bit and slowed me down):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCd846HFLkg
11 psi and maybe a cam as well as a new tune planned for next spring.
26-Sep-2008, 02:42 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 511
just get spray... you can put regular in your car when you don't use it and still get the same mileage as stock then when you wanna play connect the bottle
because you don't need a turbo on the streets nor a supercharger do you really need the extra power on the street? the bottle you go to the track connect it and have fun
it is legal to have in your car as long the bottle is not connected
cops have seen what i have and i have not been harassed
because you don't need a turbo on the streets nor a supercharger do you really need the extra power on the street? the bottle you go to the track connect it and have fun
it is legal to have in your car as long the bottle is not connected
cops have seen what i have and i have not been harassed
01-Oct-2008, 08:25 AM
#11
that it costs a lot less to spray your car than to boost it.....theres nothing wrong with n20.
The only problem with n20 is that it runs out and you'll have to keep filling bottles. After the season and bottle after bottle filled with the amount of $$$ you would have spent, you prolly could've bought all the turbo or supercharger parts to boost your car....you'll never run out of boost (unless something breaks).
The only problem with n20 is that it runs out and you'll have to keep filling bottles. After the season and bottle after bottle filled with the amount of $$$ you would have spent, you prolly could've bought all the turbo or supercharger parts to boost your car....you'll never run out of boost (unless something breaks).
01-Oct-2008, 09:03 AM
#12
just get spray... you can put regular in your car when you don't use it and still get the same mileage as stock then when you wanna play connect the bottle
because you don't need a turbo on the streets nor a supercharger do you really need the extra power on the street? the bottle you go to the track connect it and have fun
it is legal to have in your car as long the bottle is not connected
cops have seen what i have and i have not been harassed
because you don't need a turbo on the streets nor a supercharger do you really need the extra power on the street? the bottle you go to the track connect it and have fun
it is legal to have in your car as long the bottle is not connected
cops have seen what i have and i have not been harassed
01-Oct-2008, 10:01 AM
#14
I could totally see my grandma driving my boosted civic, wondering what that whistling noise is.
so if bottles are for babies and spooling is for grandma, i guess n/a is for rich idiots?
so if bottles are for babies and spooling is for grandma, i guess n/a is for rich idiots?
01-Oct-2008, 11:45 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 413
01-Oct-2008, 12:07 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: At your moms
Posts: 2,633
01-Oct-2008, 12:09 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: At your moms
Posts: 2,633
VW FTW!!!!!
01-Oct-2008, 12:23 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 413
