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iTaLiAn_vIrUs 01-Apr-2011 12:02 PM

So if finally coming to that time..
 
Im noticing my car starting to burn oil.. my dip stick read full a week and a half ago.. and now its at half..

i smell some oil burning when VTEC is engaged( not all the time, once in a while)..

sounds to me like its the rings that are going?


right now im using mobil1 15W-50 and the lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer to try and slow things down..

im not planning on fixing this right away.. cause i know that means and engine rebuild.

any suggestions on slowing this down?

or what are some good options??

thx boys

D.T.P 01-Apr-2011 12:41 PM

Well Mike had success with using non synthetic oil to slow down the oil burning issue in his b16. Also, 15w50 seems tad too thick.

MPR 01-Apr-2011 02:39 PM

^I switched back to full synthetic, mainly because I got tired of changing the oil every 2 months...lol.

It burned a little less oil when I ran non-synthetic, but I'd rather have better oil in my motor and have to add a liter every 3 weeks, than have to change it more often.

Kind of a trade-off. Not a whole lot you can do. If you rings and vlave seals are worn, they're gonna leak regardless.

I'm also using the lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer in my wifes accord wagon with 425,000kms on it (original motor). Seems to work well.

Sundown 01-Apr-2011 03:35 PM

Leak hunting sucks, I had the same experience as MPR with the synth vs. non-synth.

Some other things you can look for.

Take a look under the car, especially at where the gearbox and engine mate. If you have oil leaking from the clutch cover, you'll need a new rear main seal. Not a huge job if you're competent enough to do a clutch on your own.

Had your valve cover off lately? I'm not sure it would equate to as much loss as you're experiencing, but if the cover came off and a good seal wasn't used with high temp silicone at the corners you may be blowing oil out of the valve cover. Vtec heads especially atomize a mess of oil and create pretty big pressure under the valve cover.

Also have a look around the oil filter, it may just be loose, or as I've seen in a few cases, the o-ring from a previous filter may have stuck to the block and the new filter's o-ring is mated to the old o-ring, not the block, this will leak like crazy.

Other than that, you just have an older Honda vtec engine.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 07-Apr-2011 11:05 AM

see but this gets me thinking..

i dont smell the oil burning through my exhaust i smell it as if its coming from under the hood.

i took the valve cover off in November, and it was spotless! and i put new high temp silicone.

could excessive oil burning be caused from a bad sensor? or dirty sensor? or a clogged pcv valve?

sorry if these are stupid questions but i wanna ask and make sure, as you can see ive never dealt with these issues before.


ALSO this is a key note..


if im in first gear, and i go at about 1500rpms and just cruise.. ONCE in a while the motor bogs a bit until i give it more gas..
or if im in second gear and im crawling and i put my foot to the floor and go full throttle the motor bogs a bit then gets moving. but like i said this happens once in a while

could all these issues correlate?

thanks boys

D.T.P 07-Apr-2011 12:15 PM

It wouldn't be a bad sensor, its either leaking or burning.

Burning could be caused by a plugged pcv system causing more blowby the rings and thus burning. Could be actual rings or valve seals.

Leaks, well that could be anywhere, as simple as oil pressure sender, front/rear main seals, oil pump etc. Many possible causes.

MPR 07-Apr-2011 12:30 PM

*warning*... geek rant below...lol

Crawling along in any gear at near idle, do you really expect a tiny displacement motor like this to instantly spring to life when you floor it? You will actually get better acceleration and torque from your engine at lower rpm's by giving it part-throttle. try it, it's physics. Higher intake air velocity at lower rpm = more torque. This is what happens at part-throttle because you are creating a venturi effect with the throttle plate. If you go wide open, the air moves more slowly and the engine produces less torque.

Try this, go in 4th or 5th (the higher the gear the more noticable this is) and cruise at 2000 or 2500rpm. Slowly start to give the engine more and more throttle. You'll notice it'll accelerate slower at full throttle input, yet it will accelerate quicker, in the lower rpm's, with part-throttle input. You can feel the threashold where torque starts to drop if you give it too much throttle in the lower rpm's. Technically, the best way to accelerate from a dig (in gear near idle) is to feed your throttle input based on rpm. By 4500rpm or so, you should be at full throttle from there on up to your peak hp rpm. What you are essentially doing is optimizing the volumetric effeciency and torque output of the engine throughout the entire rpm range.

Opening the throttle fully at low rpm's basically just makes the engine bog and makes noise. ;)

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 07-Apr-2011 03:48 PM

ahhhhhhhhhhh
welll thx you guys for the inputs! i like the detail explanations!

i get the point on the bogging.. lol but in terms of the burning oil..

is there a way to check for a plugged pcv system?

would a leakdown test provide me with the definite answers im looking for?

& i know this sounds ridiculous but where is the PCV valve located? i wanna check this option out

thx again guys!

MPR 07-Apr-2011 09:24 PM

^what engine do you have?

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 08-Apr-2011 06:19 AM

d16z6

MPR 08-Apr-2011 11:08 AM

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/Page_Pr...ther%20Chamber

#6 on the diagram.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 08-Apr-2011 02:00 PM

so i just pull this out and clean it?

do i use throttle body cleaner?

any thing specific i should do?

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 08-Apr-2011 02:16 PM

also
one thing i have noticed now

is once in a while the engine light will come on.. and if i turn the car off and let it sit for about 2 mins and start it up.. the light goes away..

once in a while it comes not.. not often

could this be caused by a bad sensor? or something mechanical?

MPR 08-Apr-2011 02:57 PM

How many km's on the motor and how has it been driven? (be honest! ;))

You can search on here or google the procedure for extracting the trouble codes from your ecu. Once you have them, post them up here and we'll help you figure what to do next.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 08-Apr-2011 03:28 PM

245xxx
& i dont beat it bad.. i do drive it aggressive when i need to though. but not often

i saw some DIY's on cleaning the PCV valve
ill see if these could help me out.. thxx

MPR 08-Apr-2011 05:29 PM

Yeah, it's probably a combination of worn piston rings and valve stem seals. Nothing major or unusual. Just keep an eye on your oil level and keep it topped up.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 24-Apr-2011 10:08 PM

k boys
so after reading Mikes posts.. this is what i did

i did an oil change and compression test on my motor last week.. this is what the result were.


Cylinder #1 = 200psi
Cylinder #2 = 170psi
Cylinder # 3 = 190psi
Cylinder # 4 = 190 psi

(I removed the power to my dizzy and unplugged my injectors when i did the test)

So as you can see, Cylinder # 2 is running low.. So what i did to verify this was put some automatic transmission fluid in Cylinder # 2 and put the compression tester back on an tested it. and sure enough i got a reading of like 240psi.. i put a little too much fluid i believe but none the less this has proven that the valve seals are going and its just wear and tear on the motor.


Also when i took the spark plugs out they only had a little carbon build up on them, & no oil on the spark plugs. So i would say carbon build up.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg



Now get this,

If im in first gear and i start to accelerate i notice the motor starting to bog out.. it feels like its loosing power then it will catch and run strong.. this even happens in 2nd as well.. and seems to be more frequent now.


I changed the Distributor/ spark plugs / wires / battery during my December tune up..

& when i did this compression test i replaced my alternator with a new one, and new belt..

im thinking this could be a sign of a bad injector? or some type of blockage.. has anyone experienced this ?

One thing i thought of was when i looked at the spark plugs and noticed that they had the carbon build up, and when i read up on that.. this could be a sign of a weak ignition system..

could that be a reason as to why im getting this bogging ?

Now one thing that i wanted to know was that i was told that if i unplug my injectors and get an Ohm meter and measure the resistance across the injector it can tell me if the injector is functioning properly or not. is this true? and if so
does anyone know what the readings should be ?

sorry for the essay boys
but ive been trouble shooting this so i just wanted to make sure you were just as informed as i was..

any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks!

blueEM2 25-Apr-2011 01:14 AM

Do your research on Lucas before using it... that stuff is garbage

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 25-Apr-2011 01:36 AM


Originally Posted by blueEM2 (Post 1486403)
Do your research on Lucas before using it... that stuff is garbage

i beg to differ on that one dude,
ive been using the fuel stabilizer and ive loved it! its rated one of the best around

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 25-Apr-2011 01:42 AM

sorry boys
i also forgot to mention that when i did the oil change, i checked the oil filter which is Mobil 1 for any leaks, cause i read that sometimes a Mobil 1 oil filter does not come in complete contact with the motor causing you to loose oil. That was not the case for my car. The oil filter has been switched to a K&N brand.

i did however notice that 4 10mm bolts were a bit loose on the oil pan and i tightened them up and checked the remaining bolts, they were fine.

the motor oil currently in the car is Mobil 1 15W-50 and im using about 20% Lucas Oil Stabilizer .

blueEM2 25-Apr-2011 11:04 AM

I'm going to leave it here because I hate to be negative but test results have been done on Lucas and it causes oil to foam up and lose its ability to lubricate. Check Bob is the oil guy website. He actually does real time tests. The companies that rate these oils and addatives get paid to do it so you can't trust them. That stuff is garbage and I wouldn't put it anywhere near my car. Even car manufacturers recommend you stay away.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 25-Apr-2011 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by blueEM2 (Post 1486420)
I'm going to leave it here because I hate to be negative but test results have been done on Lucas and it causes oil to foam up and lose its ability to lubricate. Check Bob is the oil guy website. He actually does real time tests. The companies that rate these oils and addatives get paid to do it so you can't trust them. That stuff is garbage and I wouldn't put it anywhere near my car. Even car manufacturers recommend you stay away.

im gonna do some research and check it out

blueEM2 25-Apr-2011 12:14 PM

As far as bogging goes have you cleaned your throttle body? It could be numerous things... but cleaning the throttle body is where you should start. Yes your injectors could be partially plugged causing bogging at lower rpms. I'd definitely start by giving the throttle body a thorough cleaning which means taking it off the car and spraying it down with TB cleaner and a toothbrush.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 25-Apr-2011 01:37 PM

when i did my tune up in december i put throttle body cleaner, i used about half a can..
and i let it sit for a bit..
maybe a bad sensor?

i even use lucas fuel injector cleaner as well in my gas tank, every other fill up

MPR 26-Apr-2011 09:15 AM

You don't need injector cleaner in every other fill-up. Once or twice a year is fine. Any more is unecessary.

In the 266k I've had my car for, the only time it ever had any cleaner go through it was when I seafoamed it over a year ago.

blueEM2 26-Apr-2011 09:24 AM

The only reason to use it every other fillup is if you know your injectors are plugged and your trying to clean the system out. If this is the case its usually too late for a product as mild as injector cleaner. You will probably have to take it for a chemical cleaning somewhere. Even that procedure can cause damage to the internals because they blow all the carbon out into the pistons which isnt necessarily good.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 26-Apr-2011 11:16 AM

k boys
so after driving the car around checking the plugs. it looks like its a weak ignition system.. i notice that it only seems to bog when the motor is cold or when the ignition system is cold.. once it starts to heat up i find the problem to go away..
so im going to get one of those Heli coils and add it in to give my system a boost

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 26-Apr-2011 11:17 AM

lol i hear so many different things regarding this product
everyone's told me different ways to use it.. so i dunno

blueEM2 26-Apr-2011 02:53 PM

How is your coolant level in the radiator and the overflow tank?

MPR 26-Apr-2011 04:07 PM

uh... a heli coil is used to re-thread damaged threads in a threaded hole...

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 05-May-2011 02:41 AM

LOL My bad i did not mean to say heli coil. i meant to say super coil aka an external coil...

heres the update:

i was tinkering around and i took apart the dizzy and changed the ignition coil.. i found that the rough idle was gone.. and it was not bogging as much as it used too.. now it hardly happens... ONCE in a while when i start the car i notice it will bog for a bit. then be normal then bog again...

i find that if i turn the car off, wait a sec then turn it back on.. vola no more bogging.. and everything is running fine..

im debating maybe it could be the wires/ plugs? maybe this coil / new wires and plugs well help with this issue??

anyone??

thanks in advance!

MPR 05-May-2011 09:07 AM

How old are the plugs? If they aren't that old, check the gap and reset if necessary (this can make a bigger difference than you may think). Also, check the resistance of the ignition wires. You'll have to google the ideal resistance. It'll be something like so many ohms per 12" length of wire. With a simple multimeter and calculator, should be easy to figure out if they are still good or not.

Let us know what you find. :)

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 25-Jul-2011 07:59 PM

well gents ive decided its time to put this motor on a stand soon and get some work done to it( the motor may or may-not be in the car during this procedure). if you read the above posts you will notice that i had a bogging issue on my car.. the issue is still there only at low rpms.. still have no idea what it is exactly

so far i have done to the car:

full exhaust system (stock header though)
CAI
MSD Ignition System
new alternator/belt/water pump/tensioner


What i want to do to the car is;

- take the head off maybe mill it out just a little bit and replace the rings( with either stock/low/high compression rings)..
- check the pistons and rods once they are pulled out.
- upgrade to an AEM Fuel rail/ change/replace injectors
- Skunk2 intake manifold
- Hytech replica 4-2-1 header or 4-1

Now im at a point where i decide if i want to keep it NA or Boost it...
i prefer NA cause its less maintenance then boost.. but its obviously tempting lol..

( what are you thoughts on this? im open to suggestions)


is there anything else im missing guys? or anything else u think i should replace while im there?
any help would be appreciated, thx

F8i 10-Aug-2011 05:20 PM

A compression test is very different from a leak test.

It's a Honda... your rings are warn. Use cheap oil, and fill it as often as it needs it. my Type R was almost a 1L every time I filled it with gas.

Your valves could be a problem too, but only a leak down test would show that.
A) You don't need a fuel rail, ask Zeeman. I think it's good up to 400hp
B) there's injector cleaning services $25 an injector. I got mine done at deastchwerks in the States. (Because they were DW Injectors)
C) Intake manifold? Why bother? Get a light flywheel, or yours lightened at a machine shop. For the price of an Intake vs. Flywheel, I'd get the supporting mods before the expensive intake.
D) You want a 4-2-1 Header, not a 4-1.

E) Why not replace pistons/rods, raise compression, get a tune, and get cams. Huge NA gains, and nothing gimmicky. (Repair your head first is it's leaking)

-B

MPR 10-Aug-2011 05:30 PM

^ I agree with all of that.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 22-Aug-2011 09:35 PM


Originally Posted by F8i (Post 1492056)
A compression test is very different from a leak test.

It's a Honda... your rings are warn. Use cheap oil, and fill it as often as it needs it. my Type R was almost a 1L every time I filled it with gas.

Your valves could be a problem too, but only a leak down test would show that.
A) You don't need a fuel rail, ask Zeeman. I think it's good up to 400hp
B) there's injector cleaning services $25 an injector. I got mine done at deastchwerks in the States. (Because they were DW Injectors)
C) Intake manifold? Why bother? Get a light flywheel, or yours lightened at a machine shop. For the price of an Intake vs. Flywheel, I'd get the supporting mods before the expensive intake.
D) You want a 4-2-1 Header, not a 4-1.

E) Why not replace pistons/rods, raise compression, get a tune, and get cams. Huge NA gains, and nothing gimmicky. (Repair your head first is it's leaking)

-B


First off thanks for the input guys i appreciate it.

An injector cleaning service eh?.. i guess lucas fuel injector cleaner doesnt do the same type of job ?

Does a lighter fly wheel actually make that much of a difference?

& yah i want a 4-2-1 header, i just have to decide on the brand first.

Well when i take the head off, and i take the pistons out im gonna see what type of condition they are in. If they need replacing ill change them.. if not then theres no point right?

& I understand raising compression when i replace the rings cause im already there.


my only concern is..

if i replace the pistons/ rods is it going to be expensive? i never gotten any pricing on those mods before.. and should i replace them with OEM or upgraded ones?

i do know that cams are expensive. so im gonna be dishing out at least a good $600 for those parts in total.. right?

& the head will be machined out just a little bit, nothing too crazy.

iTaLiAn_vIrUs 06-Sep-2011 10:48 AM

what happened, you guys got all quiet on me all of a sudden lol

MPR 07-Sep-2011 08:15 PM

How much power do you want to make?

D.T.P 08-Sep-2011 10:33 PM


Originally Posted by iTaLiAn_vIrUs (Post 1492495)

Well when i take the head off, and i take the pistons out im gonna see what type of condition they are in. If they need replacing ill change them.. if not then theres no point right?

& I understand raising compression when i replace the rings cause im already there.

Wait wait wait...WHAT?!

Raising compression with rings? and you shouldn't reuse rings. From earlier posts you had a low cyl2 and it went up when you got some oil in it. Well its not valve seal, its your ring that is leaking. So the block should be inspected and either honed or bored depending on what machinist has to say. Since you still had fairly decent compression, it most likely needs a nice clean hone and a fresh set of rings. Just to let you know, the compression will NOT go past what stock compression is.

Compression ratio is how many times the volume of air in the cylinder bore has been compressed from BDC to TDC. So if you understand that, rings will not increase anything but set you back where you want to be.

Moreover, how are you planning on inspecting pistons? They could be dirty and covered in carbon yet they can be perfectly good, just need a good bath.

You were talking about replacing rods/pistons. Well what are your hopes of horsepower and what is your budget? If you are looking to get 130whp then rods will not be necessary nor will be the pistons.

Why not just drop in a b20 for half the price of the rebuild with a b16 transmission and trust me, you WILL be loving it. Just my 2cents really.


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