matt491

Okay, here's my situation. I'm preparing for an engine swap, but I don't know exactly what engine I should go for. My car is a 99 civic si, 5spd. Stock d16 in it now needs to go. I'm looking for the car to be a daily driver, with just a bit more power out of it, maybe around 200hp, I'd be happy. I don't want to do major engine work aside from the basic bolt ons, cat back, intake, headers, and maybe the cams. My options are.

B16 - Cheap, easy to find...but least power of the four engines. I've been told by some, though, that's it's the most reliable out of all my options.

B18C (gsr motor) - More power than the b16, still DOHC, around the same price, I figure why not? But is it my best option?

B18C5 (type r) - Lots of available power, screaming high redline, reliable, but is it worth the extra two grand over the other engines?

H22 - It's got a good amount of power, DOHC, but once you go H, you can't swap back... requires some serious cutting and fitting in the engine bay, the only thing that's really holding me back.


So here's where you guys come in. I'd like to know what swap you have or would like to do out of these four engines, and why!

Thanks. begin discussion

D.T.P

b18c1[gsr] you would hit the desired horsepower without all that many add-ons. [since you didnt state 200hp to the wheels or crank].

MPR

Don't go H22. Go with one of the b-series.

To make a b16a2 make the power of the b18c5 it will cost you more money then to just buy a b18c5.

The b18c5 is my suggestion.

matt491

Okay, so the h22 I suppose is out. only reason I considered it is cause they're so cheap and relatively powerful.

But if I go b18, is the type r worth the extra money? I mean, it's an extra 10-15hp give or take, but it's nearly twice the price, from the numbers I've seen.

As for hp, i'd be looking for around 200 at the wheels, after cams, cat back, intake, headers and tuning.

MyVtecGoesBWAH

did say go with the c5,one of the best engines honda has ever made.

matt491

Everyone always says go with the type r, but my question is this. Is it REALLY worth the money? Is it more or less reliable? Is it really worth an extra 2 grand for 10hp? Does it rev any higher?

Aside from being able to say, "I have a type R" What makes the engine better?

rick10

why do you keep saying the extra 2 grand... I was at tokio direct ( i think its called) last month and the type r engines were going for 2300 while the gsr engine was 2000... He told me the type r engine price went down a lot and its only 300-400 more than the gsr engine... So i m not sure where you are getting the 2000 from..

matt491

toronto jdm's website has them listed for over 4 grand! That's what I'm going with....

Perhaps I should make some calls. if the price difference was a grand or less, there'd be no doubt in my mind, go for the type r, but I thought the prices on their site were accurate?

toronto jdm has b16's listed around 2, b18c's just under or around 3 and type r's for around 4500.

Also, keep in mind, i'm talking FULL swap. Engine, tranny, everything. Not just engine.

rick10

unless the guys messed up bad , he told me the type r engine full swap is 2400... I looked at the gsr engine at first and it was 2000...

I highly doubt the salesperson messed up because i actually went to the back and saw the type r engine and again he told me it was around 2300-2400 full swap... So yea i ll go shop around ...

I even asked the guy that i thought the type r engine was more expensive and he said there were before but they ve gone down in price a lot and they are not as expensive as they used to be ....

Anyways they shouldnt be as expensive as they are , you are only gainin 20 hp compare to a gsr engine

rick10

BTW i know the type r engine he had was a full swap , because i asked about the si engine d15b and it was 500 just engine ... He said they only sell full swap or the gsr and the type r engine...

I forgot the name of the store but is in mississauga by dixie and the 401...

There are a couple of japan importers around that area , i seen at least 3

matt491

When you say they shouldn't be as expensive as they are, you mean even the 400 dollar difference you got quoted? Or by my numbers? $400 difference seems fine to me for TRUE 20hp... even a $400 intake that claims to make 15hp will only ever make maybe 8 or 9..

rick10

I mean its ok if the difference is 300-500 because of the power you are gaining... But it is retarded to pay 2000 more for 20 HP ... You may as well put it towards a turbo and gain a lot more...

2000 for a gsr and 2400 for a type r seemed fair to me...

matt491

I agree, those prices seem very fair. I called my mechanic and sent him on a hunt. He's gonna price out for me a b18c1 (gsr) and a b18c or c5. (type r). Don't know if he'll call me back tonight or tomorrow, but I'll be sure to post what he gives me.

seanv98

Don't forget your extras like, timing belt and water pump, full tune up, might as well do the accessory belts as well. You going to keep A/C and power steering? What did you end up deciding about swapping out the clutch?

matt491

clutch depends when I'm doing what. As you said, I have to do the timing belt and water pump and all that jazz first. So I might just do the engine swap alone, if I have enough money, swap and my cat back. I'll do a stage one clutch (probably exedy) when I do the cams and intake and get it tuned. It wont be making any decent power until after I do the cams and tuning.

And yes, keeping ac and powersteering. My ac broke for two days this summer, I nearly died. Never again =P

MyVtecGoesBWAH

why dont u buy a car with a swap done.that u can still build.u can find them with low km and good body for the price of a swap.

matt491

I'll never trust a swap that someone else did. Simple fact is you just can't trust it. They can say anything they want, you'll never know if it has any problems. I'd rather know exactly what was done, who did it and where the parts are coming from and what they are. I've seen some NASTY swaps... I want mine to be clean and problem free..

seanv98

I agree with you on that one Matt. You saw how clean my engine bay was, and I probably have about 110 on the motor, but if I told you it had 40 you would never know. It's nice to get a motor from a trustworthy place, you can never really tell the mileage, but at least from a trustworthy place their name is on the line and they would want to deal out motors in good condition, plus by doing all the maintenance to it in one shot, you know exactly what has been done. On a side note, I would consider ditching the power steering, the car drives so much better, and you get such a better feel of the road. The only time it can be a pain in the *** is parking, but if your tires are properly inflated then it's not really an issue. Good luck bud.

rick10

it will be a lot more expensive... I havent seen a civic type r for less than 5000 ... He already has a decent 99 ek which is not that old ... He could probably get his engine swap for 3000 labour incl.... So it doesnt make much sense to buy a type r if the swap is only going to cost 3000....

Now if he had a piece of rust civic ( eg most likely) then it will make more sense just to get a type r or gsr civic ...

matt491

I dunno about ditching the power steering....but it's definitely something to think about. I'll ask my mechanic what he thinks. Keep in mind this isn't going to be a race car or anything, just a daily driver, and I think keeping power steering would be much easier.

Exactly. My suspension and body are in great condition. I specifically searched for three months for a car with a good body and suspension, but a higher mileage engine with this plan in mind.


Thanks for the input everyone.