matt491

Quick question for everyone. As some of you might know already from my bombarding the forums with swap questions, I'm planning an engine swap on a civic sometime in the near future and I'm trying to do my research now.

I went back and forth between the B18C and the H22 engines trying to decide which to put in. I'm leaning heavily towards the H22 at the moment. But here's my question.
What the heck does OBD mean? For both the B18's and the H22 engines I've seen I've read the terms "OBD1" and "OBD2" too many times to count and I have no freakin clue what they mean?

Thanks

Oh and also, I asked this in another thread and got no response, so I might as well throw it here.
For those that own them, any idea what a stock (or lightly modded) B16 would be revving at while doing 120 on the highway? How about an H22 (would swap for an H tranny)? (just thinking in terms of gas consumption) I've been told a stock GSR motor (B18C1) revs at about 4000rpm while doing 120.

Xscorpio

OBD = On-Board Diagnostics

further information: On-board diagnostics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

seanv98

B16 is around 4000rpm at 120. When you do the swap you will want to convert it to OBD1.

D.T.P

My brothers 97 lude [stock] revs 3500-3600rpm at 120km/h in 5th. Sorry about the 100rpm range, ill verify with him tonight for you.

D.T.P

Also forgot to mention, I would not get h22 just simply because they all burn oil. As I was explained by a fellow board member, the cylinder walls are coated with some sort of material [don't remember what's it called] and that stuff wears off over time. That is when you start burning oil.
As I mentioned above, my brother has a prelude, the thing takes 1L of oil for 1000km. I've heard/seen worse.
If I was you, I would stay away from it. Also once you go h, you can't come back. Lol

Trybal

^^^Ditto^^^

I wouldn't go with the H22, for the reason of weight balance, H-series motor mounts have only one choice (the H22), they tend to burn oil and they're not as durable and long lasting as a B-series motor.

D.T.P

^^yes
but H22 is a whole lot of fun haha. if you are ok with putting 0.5-1L of oil every fill up then go for h22, otherwise b FTW

matt491

Bah, **** my life. So my options are save up for a god damn B18 and drop my lifes savings on an engine, or get a B16 and add some power adders/possibly turbo it. I was trying not to turbo my engine as I know insurance will cover the swap, but probably not the turbo.
I just want a decent amount of torque. nothing fancy. I'd be happy with under 200. 180ish maybe.
I'd love a B18C5 but I just can't blow five grand on an engine. So my options are 4 grand for a B18C (gsr engine) which I've been told isn't really worth four grand or go for a B16 and add some power to it.

Are my prices off? I mean, I'm going by what I've read on torontojdm. However, the prices in their forsale section here always seem cheaper than on their website for some reason?

Xscorpio

^yea i dont think all these shops really update the prices on their sites, it is best you contact them directly.

D.T.P

or you could get a b18b1, enjoy that for a bit, then once you save up some more to ls/vtec. that will bring you to 180-200whp mark no problem. just invest in the build but atleast it wont be as bad as dropping 4-5k at once.

matt491

What do you mean? Get a B18B1 and then later on do ANOTHER engine swap to one with vtec?

jdm ek4

H22 with dual carbs but good luck with traction. lol

seanv98

What he means is, later on remove the non VTEC head from the B18B1 and replace it with a VTEC head. Look up LS/Vtec or B20/Vtec. Very common.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I agree this would be better then a h22. the FRP designe of the cylinder walls martin mentioned and the weight/position of the motor makes the handling suck. do a b18 ls/vtec swap the b20 makes better torque numbers but they aren't as durable. They have thinner cylinder sleeves.

what do you wanna do with the car? straight line or road course? just DD? the b16 is more durable of the b series engine's and has higher rev limits because the shorter throw of the pistons means less inertia. the heavier engines are better for torque as a result and better for straight line speed the high reving b16 is better for top end speed. people who do boost seem to be getting higher numbers with less building outta b16's then other options.

all that said I think bang for buck option. buy a non vtec b18 long block. and spend a few extra bucks on either a b16 or gsr tranny. you'll like the shorter gears for bottom end and 5th is usually about the same final drive give or take a few rpm but even the least feul eco gear ratios are still honda 4 bangers you really can't go wrong. drop that in and then save up and find a b16 or gsr head (gsr's have a different intake manifold then the other b series heads so if you plan on doing things like aftermarket intake manifolds the b16 may be a better choice) and get something like the golden eagle ls/vtec kit and a p28 ecu. talk to zeeman on this forum about getting an ecu and getting it chipped to properly run you setup.

matt491

wow, thanks for the info, ol dusty.

This car will be a daily driver. Wont be tracked or raced at all. I want something reliable, but something that will go when I want it to.
So you're saying maybe I should look at a straight B16 swap? I didn't know they were considered better than a B18 by anyone. One of my concerns is gas consumption and I've heard people telling me that they cruise on the highway doing 120 around 4000rpm which to me seems a tiny bit high.
I do plan on doing all the basic power adders. Intake, exhaust, headers, etc. MAYBE down the line a turbo kit, but certainly not anytime soon. As I said, it's a daily driver and I don't want to kill it.

The only reason I didn't look more seriously at a B16 is because I figured if I went for a B16, I'd want a B16B for the extra power. But for that much money, it's not much cheaper than a B18, which has the higher torque.
I'm really new to this whole swap thing. All this talk about long block this and head that confuses me. I need to do some reading on engines in general, I know. But I'm looking to keep it as simple as possible.
That's why I figured a B18C was my best option. However, since I plan to mod the engine a bit, maybe the B16 wouldn't be a bad choice. Are the B16A's noticably less powerful than a B16B?

Thoughts and opinions?

matt491

sorry for the second post, can't edit.

Price wise, here's what I've got.
B16A (second gen, OBDI) - $2000 or less
B16B - $4000
B18C5 - $4500

So if I'm going to drop the money on a B16B, I might as well spend the extra 500 and get a B18C5, right? Higher torque and all.

Unless you're saying a regular ol' b16a would be a good engine, revs high and what not.

seanv98

Some quick info on the B16 for you. I have been driving one in my civic for almost 3 years now. I don't beat on it a lot, but when I do it pulls all they way to the red line. I do all the scheduled maintenance on it, and I haven't had a single problem with it. The only mods I have on it are intake, header, and exhaust. The only thing, is that it lacks a little in low end torque, but when I need to replace my clutch I will get a lightened flywheel which will help the motor rev a little quicker. My buddy has a GSR motor with the same mods and a lightened flywheel, and you can feel how much quicker it revs. IMO the B16B and C5 are awesome motors and I love them, but that is more because of the racing heritage they are built from. A lot of people and race teams use parts from these motors to build street/track motors. If budget is a concern I wouldn't spend the extra money on one. Have you been in a car with a swap in it? That might help your decision. I'll take you for a spin in my car and that might help you out some.

Also, Short Block = Motor with no tranny or head. Long Block = motor and head with no tranny. Complete swap = assembled motor, head, tranny and most other parts needed for the swap.

matt491

Thanks for all the info, man. Sent you a PM.

My concern lies between the B16A and B16B. Everyone always says get a "B16" or "b18" or what ever and never specifies which one.
Is a B16A worth it? If not, and you're talking about getting a B16B, I might as well spend the extra $500 and get a B18C5, no?

seanv98

When people say they have a B16, it usually means B16A 160hp - 170hp depending. B18 usually refers to the integra non VTEC motor.

matt491

Okay. So there's another option I've never looked into, a B18 non-vtec motor. Does vtec make a huge difference? To be honest, I've never driven or rode in a civic with vtec. I don't know how much it really does. A b18 without vtec would be considerably cheaper. is that a better option to look at?