02AccordSE

02 Accord SE 2.3 I4 with 149,000 kms. BIBLE maintenance all done including timing belt at 144,000 less than one year ago.

Today I realize my overflow tank is back filling with engine oil. It's also overflowing out the top of the tank.

My wife tells me today it's on the driveway.....I get it up on the hoist tonight and no leaks from underneath.

google search tells me it could be anything from fluids mixing in the rad to blown head gasket to cracked short block near where the oil filter is.

Questions:

1. Anyone seen this?
2. I'm the one and only owner of this car since new, will Honda step up if it's a cracked short block?

I am so freakin' mad right now you have no idea. I treat this like gold. Aside from some end link bushings, nothing much major has gone wrong or outside of regular maintenance until now. I also just bought my inlaws a 00 Accord SE in which I had to do the evap cannister and the tsb for srs light.

If I'm screwed on this car, 5 cars later.....I think i'm done with Honda.

Sumol15

Similar thing just happened to me. I didn't have oil mixing, but the coolant was bubbling out of the reservoir cap. It was the headgasket.

Sumol15

Talk to the guys at HiVelocity Tuning, they work on my car, and will definitely diagnose your problem and fix it cheaper than the dealer would.

Middlemiss

iTrader: (2)

Headgasket for sure.. Thats really low K for that to happen..wierd.

beerman

your headgasket is shot. the oil is passing the head seal and making its way into the coolling channels in your block, thats why you got oil mixed with coolant

02AccordSE

Tech just called. Not the head gasket. Something internal. I'm not about to spend thousands finding out. She's gonna walk the plank.

Middlemiss

iTrader: (2)

No freaking way. A honda with only 149,000 kms would not have something fail internally. If you have maintained this like you say and all oil changes and service have been performed then there is no way that this problem is as the "tech" says. Unless you have a cracked block which I doubt, then its the head gasket. I say BS - get a second opinion.

Sumol15

I agree! Also, why would you drop a car that you put all those years and effort into over this one issue? You know the history of the car its still a baby at like 150000kms. Get another opinion, the dealer will always tell you the most expensive option.

blitz_soldi3r

im on the same boat as everyone else,
and hearing about the problem ..
its most likely a headgasket

02AccordSE

My problem is this:

1. If I crack the top end open to see if it IS the head gasket and it's not, I'm already in for like $1000.
2. If I'm real lucky and it's only the head gasket, I'm what? $1500 out the door right? Even with a friendly mechanic which I have.
3. If it's NOT the head gasket, which to be honest guys....with this low kms.......it's not very common as you say that a head gasket would go....then it's something WAY more serious, like a porus block seeping oil into the coolant passage which I'm told Honda dealers have seen and replaced the motor. Or it could be a cracked block near where the oil filter is in which case, I'm gonna need to re and re a used motor. The point I'm struggling with right now, is even if I crack it open to really find out what it is......I'm already down a path where I can't stop....at that point once it's open, we just fix whatever it is....even if it's a new shortblock (worst case) and for a car that's worth 4500 wholesale, I'll have dumped another 3-4 grand into it by the time I'm done. I'm then married to that car for the long haul. If something else goes after that, I'm gonna end myself because I didn't get out while I could. Also, if I crack it open and it's NOT the headgasket and I don't wanna spend the money on a new motor, I can't exactly sell it or trade it like that......I had it open already and know what the issue is.

As of right now, I can trade the car in and get my wholesale value and regardless of what the problem is, the dealership can fix it better, cheaper than I can.

I'm really upset here because I've been loyal honda owner for years....this shouldn't happen like this.

I have every receipt of how I treated this car. I'm already getting PM's with offer to buy, come and get it for $4400 as is.

djgoofy

hey dude, did you check your oil level at all? is it auto or stick? if its stick, then it maybe a head gasket, if its auto, it might just be a rad, as the oil cooler lines in the rad mayby shot!!!. check your tranny fluid and see if theres anythign wrong with it.

Middlemiss

iTrader: (2)

You are getting Pm's because someone is going to buy your car and fix it, and or install a motor from the wreckers and either sell it and profit or keep it for themselves It is a nice car in amazing shape. Why not have this done yourself, I still doubt what the "tech" is saying. Honda builds a better product then that!

To me - its worth keeping it. Just something to think about.

02AccordSE

The oil level was down over a quart just before New years. I added over a full quart and the only reason I even noticed this is because the oil/coolant mix (goop) had filled the overflow bottle and was blowing out the top after this. I guess too one month to fill up to the top. I have since emptied out that overflow bottle. I have not been driving it since finding this out because frankly I don't want to do more damage. driving it home from the mechanic, I made sure to keep it around 2000 rpms to avoid getting it too hot. The goop level came up only slightly.

For all those that are convinced it's the ONLY the head gasket, why isn't it overheating now? also, wouldn't it have had to get really hot to blow the gasket? The car has never driven any differently, temp guage has never sat high and never a warning light for anything.

I am sure I could keep driving it for another two months and see how fast the bottle fills up with oil, then check my oil level to confirm how much is coming out of the motor and/or see if any coolant is getting into the oil, but who the hell wants to do that???? It could have been building up there already for two months before I even knew. If any coolant contaminates the oil, I'm doing worse damage and it will be more noticeable, like milky white in the oil or puffing white smoke out the back.

Right now the car drives fine, no dash lights, no problems, so I'd rather let it sit until I decide what to do. I don't want to drive it to the point of no return either.

Listen, if someone could guarantee me it was ONLY the head gasket, I'd do the work tomorrow and call it a day, but IMO, nobody and I mean nobody can guarantee or know until we break it open and by that time as I said, it's too late. It's a crap shoot, and I only gamble when the odds are overwhelmingly in my favour. I'm gambling with the difference between 1500 and 3200. I'm not interested in a bastarized version of MY car with a used motors that who knows where it came from or how it was treated. I could fix the car and still want to get rid of it afterwards. Why get rid of it after another 3000 has been spent on it. Not only should Honda build better cars than that, I have higher standards than that too, I don't want a damaged car at this point, I'd rather move on to something I know the entire history.


I am also aware that the trans fluid could have mixed with the coolant in the rad......no such luck. when we compare the goop in the overflow bottle to a coolant and tranny fluid mixed up in a container, it always come out with a reddish tone, the stuff in my overflow bottle is dark brown.....it's engine oil for sure. The tranny fluid is also not contaminated or low. I only wish it was just the rad. I also read that a couple honda dealers talked owners into a new motor when it was just the rad fluid mixing issue. The car is a 2.3 I4 AOD car. moonroof, heated seats etc.

Like i said, I'll take what the cars worth as it sits and move on. I'd love to keep the car, but I'm in NO way shape for form studying any new motor. At least I have a spare car to drive for now, so not in a rush to do anything anyway. No amount of fixing it is gonna bring much more than it's worth right now. When i look at the market prices, nobody is gonna pay more than market value even when you show them all your receipts.

pawelek000

Just swap the motor the labour involved with removing the head and then finding out it's something else is a waste just get a used engine and drop it in you'll save 1k. Even the most maintained motor can fail/break down. Use car-part or an importer to find a engine, they go for 500-1000$ and to swap in and out you can either do it yourself or pay someone a couple hundred. I'd also recommend changing timing belt/pump/belt's at this time and make sure to comp test and leak down test it to see if it's a quality motor. Easiest way to go and cheaper.

If you want to **** around and learn something pull apart the head with the help of a manual and see for yourself if it is the HG don't pay someone big buck's to tear it apart the car isn't worth it

02AccordSE

^^^^ Solid advice. but given the cost effectiveness precision of what you are saying........and since I'm the original owner of the car with 149K.....if I were to go that route what chances do I have of Honda stepping up to help with a new motor?

02AccordSE

Ohhh......and If a new motor is the end game anyway, why not drive it until this motor blows and I can be saving for the new motor in the meantime.

zeeman

iTrader: (1)

Right there to me (from my past experiences with honda) that sounds to me like a headgasket issue. The reason its pumping the oil/coolant mix out of the overflow bottle is b/c when you have a blown headgasket the exhaust gases escape out of the combsution chamber into the cooling system, pressurizing the cooling system beyond its capabilities, so it pushes the mix out of the overflow bottle.

There are tests that can be done to help pin-point the problem, i'd get a second (or third) opinion from another mechanic.

Oil in the coolant is bad enough, but if theres coolant in your oil, the oil is now contaminated and has gone through your entire engine. Contaminated oil destroyes engine bearings and seals, so if thats the case i'm sure its only time before major damage is done.

Also if you keep driving a car thats overheating, you can definately make the situation worse by warping the head and/or block.

Sumol15's car was basically doing the same thing (no oil in the coolant however) and it took a few trips to us to figure out what the problem was. Sometimes with cars its a process of elimination, you try one thing (usually the cheapest solution) and if the problem persists you run a couple of more tests and try something else.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees when it comes to diagnosing a car. Just like when you go to the doctor (and trust me i've been in this situation myself, where they just keep running tests) they can't guarantee they know for a fact whats wrong with you and this is why if you go to 3 different doctors (like I did) you could get 3 different diagnoses (like I did). People are human and can only guess what the problem is based on past experiences and tests that have been run. There are just wayyy too many variables that can come into play with cars and 9/10 you never get a WHOLE truth out of the customer (at first at least) so its pretty near impossible to give a guarantee on a diagnosis.

02AccordSE

Exactly, I'm glad we agree on that part. Nobody can or will know what that is unless they tear apart the engine.

Everyone needs to understand, this is a difficult process for me. I tend to look at problems from many angles before I proceed. The chances it's a straight head gasket would be awesome and a BEST CASE scenario. There are way too many other factors or variables that could come into play. I am still maintaining that opening it up to find out is a major gamble if it's NOT the headgasket even if all tests are pointing to that. I'm not interested in another motor for this car.

Even if I pull the motor out and do a straight re-build, it won't be obvious if there is now an inperfection in the block and even if you pull it all apart and machine or resurface the head and deck etc, there are ports and channels that can't be seen by the naked eye that might be where an issue is which means if you can't 100% trust the short block has integrity, you need to get another one, raising the cost.

Again, the only plus to doing re-doing my own motor is I know how it was treated it's entire life and would be more comfortable with it regardless of miles. Any used motor will be yet another crap shoot in case something goes wrong.

finally, a new motor in an older car is still an older car. In fact, a new strong motor can also bring out the weak links in other parts.

I'm sure the back and forth between the customer and shop is equally as frustrating because the shop is doing their best to figure it out, but like you said they only can diagnose so much, the customer isn't happy to spend thousands and not have a quick and proper conclusion so it becomes a no win for either side. I'm sure some customers lie about the history, but I know how I've treated this car, and it's been like gold. My mechanic actually laughs at me because he knows how **** I am about all my cars. I have four cars one is an SVT Cobra and I trust without question my mechanic. He's willing to go whatever route I want and I feel he's just as good as anyone in diagnosis and doing what you just said which is nobody can guarantee anything, so that's why I said this......to those that think they are sure......how can they be? They can't....that's how......and since it's my money and car at stake, I'm trying to do what's best for me which at this point might be moving on? yeah, I might have made the wrong decision if it was only a head gasket, but that's the alternate risk I would take trying to avoid a whole new motor and later more repairs if the motor was also no good and/or other things break and I'm sick of the car and don't want it after that.

It's a tough call. I've stopped driving it though....I can't sleep at night knowing I might be doing more damage.

REN69

have you asked the guys over at torontoaccords.com? maybe someone there's had this problem before.

I'm not liking this... I have a 2k Accord SE with 160k on it.

jdm_77

head gasket but thats weird for it to go that early when it only got 149k unless you beat on it lol.