nice rant on christmas
07-Dec-2007, 02:03 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: At your moms
Posts: 2,633
Children of men! the unseen Power, whose eye
Forever doth accompany mankind,
Hath look'd on no religion scornfully
That men did ever find.
Matthew Arnold
shazza is right, religion is tough. in fact its the hardest thing i ever personally attempted...and failed miserably at. i would never call it a crutch, maybe a weight around my neck but not a crutch.
Christian = servant: its the only way to do christianity...working for the good of others
Forever doth accompany mankind,
Hath look'd on no religion scornfully
That men did ever find.
Matthew Arnold
shazza is right, religion is tough. in fact its the hardest thing i ever personally attempted...and failed miserably at. i would never call it a crutch, maybe a weight around my neck but not a crutch.
Christian = servant: its the only way to do christianity...working for the good of others
07-Dec-2007, 02:52 PM
#43
i don't - i think that's stupid too. if people refused to pick up a gun and fight, there would be no wars. imagine a world where people DIDN'T rush to the gunnery? so all those who died fighting a war, there would have been no war if you weren't there.
07-Dec-2007, 03:02 PM
#44
anyways, atheism is a type of religion too - it's just that we don't bow down before an imaginary creator. science also requires a HUGE leap of faith... some of the stories science tries to sell are pretty hard to accept, just like the stories around the various religions. there are gaps and mistakes and unknowns in the world of science. it's just that we can accept that... we don't need something that says 'maybe life sucks now for you peasants but when you're done serving your serfs, you will ascend to heaven'. only thing atheists do differently is say... when blood stops pumping, cells die, chemical and electrical processes stop, and it all gets recycled back to the earth in the form of minerals etc. that is all.
09-Dec-2007, 05:31 PM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
The argument of saying there is only one god (if there is a god) and all others are not true gods presents a disrespect to other belief systems/religion. What I don't agree with is that why menkind must need a belief to be good when he or she can act good out of his or her own rightous mind? My parents taught me to be good, therefore, I am.
Is that not good enough for some? Why do good deeds just to get into a place called 'heaven' when we can do good deeds because we want to help one another? I am confused as to how one serves god when your daily live is about serving yourself, and others around you. Where does god fit into this equation? What is a form of serving god?
If one believes in heaven, why live on earth?
I am not disrepecting your belief, I have questions about it. Perhaps I will never understand why some need to rely on religion to survive.
Is that not good enough for some? Why do good deeds just to get into a place called 'heaven' when we can do good deeds because we want to help one another? I am confused as to how one serves god when your daily live is about serving yourself, and others around you. Where does god fit into this equation? What is a form of serving god?
If one believes in heaven, why live on earth?
I am not disrepecting your belief, I have questions about it. Perhaps I will never understand why some need to rely on religion to survive.
09-Dec-2007, 11:41 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: at work
Posts: 976
charles, you bring up a good misperception about Christianity. we don't do good deeds in order to get into heaven. there is no good deed that anyone can do in order to get into heaven i.e. you cannot buy your way into heaven. also, no one will ever be good enough to get into heaven based on there character alone, no matter how "good" of a person they are since we all fall short of the glory of God. for Christians, sincerely believing that Christ is the son of God and that He died for our sins is the way to heaven. this is a hard concept to grasp for someone who doesn't truly understand the basics of Christianity, but that's basically it in a nutshell. also, part of serving God IS serving others among other things.
in terms of "disrespecting other belief systems"...well, if you look at it that way, then anything and everything someone does (religious or not) is disrespectful to at least one other person. i'm i not entitled to believe in what i believe in? if not, then you're also not entitled to believe what you believe. it goes both ways. it's not like i hang out with only Christians...that actually goes against Christianity in some sorts. some of my closest friends are muslims or sikh or agnostic...and i mean extremely close friends, a few of which i've even lived with. if we were in any way disrespecting each other's belief systems, then we wouldn't be such close friends for over a decade. if anything, that shows tolerance, mutual respect, and an ability to educate each other in a non-hostile manner, which ultimately shows love.
fyi, this is not me arguing...i am merely providing information in response to a genuine question...so no, i'm not looking for a fight.
in terms of "disrespecting other belief systems"...well, if you look at it that way, then anything and everything someone does (religious or not) is disrespectful to at least one other person. i'm i not entitled to believe in what i believe in? if not, then you're also not entitled to believe what you believe. it goes both ways. it's not like i hang out with only Christians...that actually goes against Christianity in some sorts. some of my closest friends are muslims or sikh or agnostic...and i mean extremely close friends, a few of which i've even lived with. if we were in any way disrespecting each other's belief systems, then we wouldn't be such close friends for over a decade. if anything, that shows tolerance, mutual respect, and an ability to educate each other in a non-hostile manner, which ultimately shows love.
fyi, this is not me arguing...i am merely providing information in response to a genuine question...so no, i'm not looking for a fight.
Last edited by Shazza; 09-Dec-2007 at 11:52 PM.
10-Dec-2007, 10:23 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
But what is heaven? Is it a utopia that no one has experienced (obviously) or a place where the follower of a certain god can only reach? If so, then there should be quite a few heavens out there.
People are entitled to believe what they wish to believe, but if a religion specifically says that no other religions are true religion and their gods are not true gods, I think, that is disrespectful.
The only way to get into the christian's heaven is by "sincerely believing that Christ is the son of God and that He died for our sins", then after one declares that, why still remain on earth?
If I bring food to a christian house, when they eat the food, do they thank me for bring it or do they thank their god for providing the food? Obviously, I bought the food so there is no need to thank their god for it, no? Then the argument would be "my god works in an unknown way that made you buy the food and bring it to my house, therefore, I still thank my god".
So all glory go to god.
Had the food gone bad and everyone got sick after, who is left to blame? Cause god was asked to bless and cleanse the food, no?
I think all religion began as crowd control method and any unexplainable events will be left to the works of a god. Deep down, I think every religion focus on one aspect – be kind and thankful. But when wars are fought in the names of one’s god, and thousands died as a result, it shows that humanity and the concept of religion don’t mix. Because the concept will always get contaminated by a few selected individuals who lead the mass that believes blindly.
I also disagree of introducing religion to a child’s life, that it should be a choice when one reaches adulthood, not something force-fed when little.
People get along fine without two topics – religion and politic. The moment you add either one into the conversation, you bet something will happen. To a person that takes no sides, the conversation is nothing but a discussion. For those who take sides, it will end in bloodshed.
People are entitled to believe what they wish to believe, but if a religion specifically says that no other religions are true religion and their gods are not true gods, I think, that is disrespectful.
The only way to get into the christian's heaven is by "sincerely believing that Christ is the son of God and that He died for our sins", then after one declares that, why still remain on earth?
If I bring food to a christian house, when they eat the food, do they thank me for bring it or do they thank their god for providing the food? Obviously, I bought the food so there is no need to thank their god for it, no? Then the argument would be "my god works in an unknown way that made you buy the food and bring it to my house, therefore, I still thank my god".
So all glory go to god.
Had the food gone bad and everyone got sick after, who is left to blame? Cause god was asked to bless and cleanse the food, no?
I think all religion began as crowd control method and any unexplainable events will be left to the works of a god. Deep down, I think every religion focus on one aspect – be kind and thankful. But when wars are fought in the names of one’s god, and thousands died as a result, it shows that humanity and the concept of religion don’t mix. Because the concept will always get contaminated by a few selected individuals who lead the mass that believes blindly.
I also disagree of introducing religion to a child’s life, that it should be a choice when one reaches adulthood, not something force-fed when little.
People get along fine without two topics – religion and politic. The moment you add either one into the conversation, you bet something will happen. To a person that takes no sides, the conversation is nothing but a discussion. For those who take sides, it will end in bloodshed.
10-Dec-2007, 12:05 PM
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 2,305
Religion is primitive and illogical.
End of story.
If I was a Buddhist, I would be offended whenever anyone grouped it with Christianity, Islam, or Judaism.
Religious groups are far more intolerant than any non-religious group. I don't need to talk about countries where converting is illegal and you will get blown up for drawing a comic of a warlord rapist, but look at other, more 'civilized' places. They will yell and scream about Harry Potter, Halloween, and a science class teaching only science, the minute you say something against them they will cry about religious intolerance, but themselves don't tolerate anything.
Especially the religious rights of self declared satanists!
10-Dec-2007, 05:26 PM
#51
But what is heaven? Is it a utopia that no one has experienced (obviously) or a place where the follower of a certain god can only reach? If so, then there should be quite a few heavens out there.
People are entitled to believe what they wish to believe, but if a religion specifically says that no other religions are true religion and their gods are not true gods, I think, that is disrespectful.
The only way to get into the christian's heaven is by "sincerely believing that Christ is the son of God and that He died for our sins", then after one declares that, why still remain on earth?
If I bring food to a christian house, when they eat the food, do they thank me for bring it or do they thank their god for providing the food? Obviously, I bought the food so there is no need to thank their god for it, no? Then the argument would be "my god works in an unknown way that made you buy the food and bring it to my house, therefore, I still thank my god".
So all glory go to god.
Had the food gone bad and everyone got sick after, who is left to blame? Cause god was asked to bless and cleanse the food, no?
I think all religion began as crowd control method and any unexplainable events will be left to the works of a god. Deep down, I think every religion focus on one aspect – be kind and thankful. But when wars are fought in the names of one’s god, and thousands died as a result, it shows that humanity and the concept of religion don’t mix. Because the concept will always get contaminated by a few selected individuals who lead the mass that believes blindly.
I also disagree of introducing religion to a child’s life, that it should be a choice when one reaches adulthood, not something force-fed when little.
People get along fine without two topics – religion and politic. The moment you add either one into the conversation, you bet something will happen. To a person that takes no sides, the conversation is nothing but a discussion. For those who take sides, it will end in bloodshed.
People are entitled to believe what they wish to believe, but if a religion specifically says that no other religions are true religion and their gods are not true gods, I think, that is disrespectful.
The only way to get into the christian's heaven is by "sincerely believing that Christ is the son of God and that He died for our sins", then after one declares that, why still remain on earth?
If I bring food to a christian house, when they eat the food, do they thank me for bring it or do they thank their god for providing the food? Obviously, I bought the food so there is no need to thank their god for it, no? Then the argument would be "my god works in an unknown way that made you buy the food and bring it to my house, therefore, I still thank my god".
So all glory go to god.
Had the food gone bad and everyone got sick after, who is left to blame? Cause god was asked to bless and cleanse the food, no?
I think all religion began as crowd control method and any unexplainable events will be left to the works of a god. Deep down, I think every religion focus on one aspect – be kind and thankful. But when wars are fought in the names of one’s god, and thousands died as a result, it shows that humanity and the concept of religion don’t mix. Because the concept will always get contaminated by a few selected individuals who lead the mass that believes blindly.
I also disagree of introducing religion to a child’s life, that it should be a choice when one reaches adulthood, not something force-fed when little.
People get along fine without two topics – religion and politic. The moment you add either one into the conversation, you bet something will happen. To a person that takes no sides, the conversation is nothing but a discussion. For those who take sides, it will end in bloodshed.
If the food you brought to the house is tainted, they will claim it's a test. Whenever something in the world is fuct, religious nuts will claim one of a few standard responses. they sound something like this:
1) god works in mysterious ways
2) you can't understand god's work, you're merely human (so it's blasphemy to even try)
3) god tests us in unexpected ways
4) god gives different burdens to different people, and will reward justly in the afterlife
these generally cover all the basis. like my question to one religious scholar who was trying to convert me... why is my eyesight such that I have to wear glasses? it's trivial - not much of a test... not even an inconvenience. it doesn't test my character or anything... it just costs me money. the answer was a combination of #4 and #2.
certain religions do have rewards for spreading the word of god... muslims say if they convert one person, it's an instant ticket to heaven. that's why their behavior is so extreme in some cases.
as for introducing religions to a child... we tell them there is an easter bunny and tooth ferry (well some kids), yet they don't believe that past the age of 5 or 6. I'm not sure why people continue to believe in god but not the tooth ferry. i do recommend making them aware of it at whatever age, but not force it on 'em. I was told about religion when I was very young, but i knew better than to believe in fairy tales.
10-Dec-2007, 05:46 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,881
as for introducing religions to a child... we tell them there is an easter bunny and tooth ferry (well some kids), yet they don't believe that past the age of 5 or 6. I'm not sure why people continue to believe in god but not the tooth ferry. i do recommend making them aware of it at whatever age, but not force it on 'em. I was told about religion when I was very young, but i knew better than to believe in fairy tales.
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