your rights as a driver...
09-Apr-2008, 08:50 AM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fortress of Superheroes
Posts: 7,275
09-Apr-2008, 11:20 AM
#8
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scarborough
Posts: 3,978
You can't hide any mods done to your car. The only way that you can get away with not obliging with his request is that you have a see through fiber glass hood lol. I believe they even take courses regarding what to look for in an illegal modded car.
09-Apr-2008, 07:53 PM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 458
"Reasonable and probable grounds or driver consent to perform a search"
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
Last edited by usdm; 09-Apr-2008 at 07:56 PM.
09-Apr-2008, 10:59 PM
#11
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 67
"Reasonable and probable grounds or driver consent to perform a search"
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
Last edited by K20EF8; 09-Apr-2008 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
09-Apr-2008, 11:02 PM
#12
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 67
Also, as far as engine mods go there are very few things that are illegal. It is legal to change an engine, intake, turbo etc. The only thing they can really give you **** about is if they expect any Nitrous or if you dont have the correct emmisions equipment hooked up, they also might call your insurance company but like I said before if you cooperate and kiss major *** you are likely not to run into many problems. Stay away from HWY7 and dont hang out at coffee shops/known meet sites and you will greatly reduce your chances of getting harrassed.
10-Apr-2008, 06:19 AM
#13
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 46
Not that i'm rude to cops, that would not be smart. I always ask the reason why i was pulled over. Being anything but respectful to a cop is like spitting straight up in the air; eventually it'll hit u in the face. At the same time you must know your basic rights. Maybe it's bin posted already but weshould hav ready access on this site to the rules and regulations of the roads(as far as proper conduct with the police). I think people know alot less than they should.
thx for the input yall
thx for the input yall
10-Apr-2008, 04:41 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 494
"Reasonable and probable grounds or driver consent to perform a search"
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
This is one thing you should remember to your grave.
I asked my law professor, and he said the same thing.
A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside.
When they pull you over, and you know you didn't do anything wrong, when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over" just saying that the cop will know you know your ****, and he will most likely ask you a stupid question like oh where are you heading, try to burn a second here and there then tell you have a good night and walk off.
They cannot check under your hood without your consent, I remember when I got pulled over by the local undercover, he asked me, do you have any mods under your hood, I said no, he said okay, but I was stupid enough to say would you like to see, and he was quick to say yes, like he just won the lottery. He didn't even wait for me, he ran up to the hood and opened it by himself, and luckily my car was stock at that time it had no engine mods, just had bought the car, so I though I might as well show these idiots the engine bay so they don't pull me over next time when they see me,lol.
Your law professor is very wrong.
Cops can stop you at any time for driver's license, registration or insurance document checks. The HTA gives them that power and the courts have upheld that practice. Once they have you quite legally stopped for that, that paves the way for them to look a lot harder at you for other things.
There are many circumstances that permit a cop to search your car without warrant.
As per the HTA, no warrant is needed to search for a radar detector is a cop has probable cause to believe you have one in the car. A cop just seeing your brake lights flash on or the nose of your car drop under hard braking when entering a radar zone is enough to establish that probable cause. A cop seeing what he or she thinks is a radar detector in your car while driving by you or behind you is also grounds even if you then immediately take it down and try to hide it before getting stopped.
As per the HTA, no warrant is need to look under your hood. The HTA enables a cop to perform roadside mechanical and safety inspections on your car at any time, and the HTA also requires you to assist the cop as directed in such inspections. If a cop deems it necessary to look under your hood as part of that inspection, he can demand that you open the hood, and you must comply or risk being fined under another part of the HTA relating to vehicle inspections. You also risk having you car declared unfit on the spot and towed to impound pending a complete vehicle inspection at a police contract garage.
If you are stopped for any reason at all, if a cop then determines that you may have been drinking, that cop can then search your car for alcohol without warrant as per the Liquor License Act.
Same goes if you are suspected of having illegal game or fish in your possession, your vehicle can be searched without warrant under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Or illegal tobacco as per the Tobacco Control Act - if a cop sees you with a pack or bag of untaxed cigarettes, that provides cause enough to permit tearing your car apart without a warrant.
These are just some situations where a search can be legally conducted without a warrant. If while conducting one of these searches they just happen to find other contraband, drugs, stolen goods etc, under Canadian law those finds can be used as a basis to charge you and can be later used in evidence against you in court.
Even searches that would ordinarily require a warrant can be done without one if exigent circumstances dictate. If a cop has reason to believe you are hiding something, but that taking the time necessary to obtain a search warrant might result in the destruction or corruption of the evidence they have reason to believe exists, they can and will go ahead and search without warrant even without your consent. If you resist, they can arrest and charge you for obstruct police, and then continue that search while you're sitting in handcuffs. The question of whether the search was legally justified would then go before a judge who would rule one way or another after the fact. In a number of recent high profile cases, judges have consistently ruled that minor breaches of Charter rights are insufficient to consider throwing out evidence so obtained.
Last edited by FiveO; 10-Apr-2008 at 05:58 PM.
10-Apr-2008, 06:00 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 494
You should be as legal as possible, full stop.
Someone who willfully chooses to cross the line into illegal territory deserves everything they get, full stop.
11-Apr-2008, 12:20 AM
#17
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 458
You will never "beat" the police, you can talk all the reasonable grounds and whats law or not but tell them your not popping your hood and they will sit and make you wait until they can pop your hood. They can makeup whatever story they want as to why they need to pop your hood. Even if you do "win" they will remember you and can make your life hell. If you drive a modded car the best way is to kiss major ***, act like a mature adult, no smart remarks or attitude and pray you dont run into someone having a bad day or power-tripping. The public, courts, media, police, everyone have a witchhunt against us and at the end of the day noone is on our side. Sometimes you cant really blame them. Hardly anyone stays low-key......look at the recent Nissan meet, revving , drifting in the parking lot and acting like assclowns even though they should know better judging by the amount of negative attention tuners always get.
My information was for gereral DD cars with no mods.
Your law professor is very wrong.
Cops can stop you at any time for driver's license, registration or insurance document checks. The HTA gives them that power and the courts have upheld that practice. Once they have you quite legally stopped for that, that paves the way for them to look a lot harder at you for other things.
There are many circumstances that permit a cop to search your car without warrant.
As per the HTA, no warrant is needed to search for a radar detector is a cop has probable cause to believe you have one in the car. A cop just seeing your brake lights flash on or the nose of your car drop under hard braking when entering a radar zone is enough to establish that probable cause. A cop seeing what he or she thinks is a radar detector in your car while driving by you or behind you is also grounds even if you then immediately take it down and try to hide it before getting stopped.
As per the HTA, no warrant is need to look under your hood. The HTA enables a cop to perform roadside mechanical and safety inspections on your car at any time, and the HTA also requires you to assist the cop as directed in such inspections. If a cop deems it necessary to look under your hood as part of that inspection, he can demand that you open the hood, and you must comply or risk being fined under another part of the HTA relating to vehicle inspections. You also risk having you car declared unfit on the spot and towed to impound pending a complete vehicle inspection at a police contract garage.
If you are stopped for any reason at all, if a cop then determines that you may have been drinking, that cop can then search your car for alcohol without warrant as per the Liquor License Act.
Same goes if you are suspected of having illegal game or fish in your possession, your vehicle can be searched without warrant under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Or illegal tobacco as per the Tobacco Control Act - if a cop sees you with a pack or bag of untaxed cigarettes, that provides cause enough to permit tearing your car apart without a warrant.
These are just some situations where a search can be legally conducted without a warrant. If while conducting one of these searches they just happen to find other contraband, drugs, stolen goods etc, under Canadian law those finds can be used as a basis to charge you and can be later used in evidence against you in court.
Even searches that would ordinarily require a warrant can be done without one if exigent circumstances dictate. If a cop has reason to believe you are hiding something, but that taking the time necessary to obtain a search warrant might result in the destruction or corruption of the evidence they have reason to believe exists, they can and will go ahead and search without warrant even without your consent. If you resist, they can arrest and charge you for obstruct police, and then continue that search while you're sitting in handcuffs. The question of whether the search was legally justified would then go before a judge who would rule one way or another after the fact. In a number of recent high profile cases, judges have consistently ruled that minor breaches of Charter rights are insufficient to consider throwing out evidence so obtained.
Cops can stop you at any time for driver's license, registration or insurance document checks. The HTA gives them that power and the courts have upheld that practice. Once they have you quite legally stopped for that, that paves the way for them to look a lot harder at you for other things.
There are many circumstances that permit a cop to search your car without warrant.
As per the HTA, no warrant is needed to search for a radar detector is a cop has probable cause to believe you have one in the car. A cop just seeing your brake lights flash on or the nose of your car drop under hard braking when entering a radar zone is enough to establish that probable cause. A cop seeing what he or she thinks is a radar detector in your car while driving by you or behind you is also grounds even if you then immediately take it down and try to hide it before getting stopped.
As per the HTA, no warrant is need to look under your hood. The HTA enables a cop to perform roadside mechanical and safety inspections on your car at any time, and the HTA also requires you to assist the cop as directed in such inspections. If a cop deems it necessary to look under your hood as part of that inspection, he can demand that you open the hood, and you must comply or risk being fined under another part of the HTA relating to vehicle inspections. You also risk having you car declared unfit on the spot and towed to impound pending a complete vehicle inspection at a police contract garage.
If you are stopped for any reason at all, if a cop then determines that you may have been drinking, that cop can then search your car for alcohol without warrant as per the Liquor License Act.
Same goes if you are suspected of having illegal game or fish in your possession, your vehicle can be searched without warrant under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Or illegal tobacco as per the Tobacco Control Act - if a cop sees you with a pack or bag of untaxed cigarettes, that provides cause enough to permit tearing your car apart without a warrant.
These are just some situations where a search can be legally conducted without a warrant. If while conducting one of these searches they just happen to find other contraband, drugs, stolen goods etc, under Canadian law those finds can be used as a basis to charge you and can be later used in evidence against you in court.
Even searches that would ordinarily require a warrant can be done without one if exigent circumstances dictate. If a cop has reason to believe you are hiding something, but that taking the time necessary to obtain a search warrant might result in the destruction or corruption of the evidence they have reason to believe exists, they can and will go ahead and search without warrant even without your consent. If you resist, they can arrest and charge you for obstruct police, and then continue that search while you're sitting in handcuffs. The question of whether the search was legally justified would then go before a judge who would rule one way or another after the fact. In a number of recent high profile cases, judges have consistently ruled that minor breaches of Charter rights are insufficient to consider throwing out evidence so obtained.
Anyways back to topic
The whole point is if you don't have a REASON to be pulled over they cannot do anything to you.
you miss understand my point, I was giving information about a stock non mod intentional car, and if some one had a car with maybe minor mods like just intake and rims, same would apply, anything more, and (we can't do anything) we are giving the cops a good enough reason too pull us over.
like if a cop pulls me over now, most of the time I don't ask them why they pulled me over, because I know they pulled me over because of my exhaust, and most of the time all I get is them checking me out that’s it.
But let’s say if im driving a ford Taurus, and they pull me over, that’s when I ask them politely the reasonable grounds, first knowing that I didn't break any laws.
most of the time they are doing random checks, its not a joke how often they find criminals and people with suspended licenses and arrest warrants just by random checks, keeping that in mind I play along, if im just cruising I don’t mind the time they take. The trick here is the cops don't just have to know the mod world, the mod world has to understand the cop too.
Ps: if you live in York region, the cops are not rude or stuck up, unless you act like a gansta wannabe. I have been pulled over many times out of some when I asked them politely reasonable grounds, and twice I realised I was actually wrong, once my right low beam head light was fused, second time I forgot my tags were dated.
But since i was polite and they saw that i humbly realised my mistake they were really cool with me, gave me a heads up and left, and my car was semi-modded too.
just be nice to people and they will be the same to you. This means don't be a smart *** or use rude metaphoric jestures or smart comments.
Last edited by usdm; 11-Apr-2008 at 12:26 AM.
11-Apr-2008, 02:49 AM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 494
You didn't say that.
You said -> "A cop cannot search inside your car without a warrant either, that’s why they try to use flash light and peak around your car from the outside."
Answer to that, despite what your prof told you, is that the law defines specific circumstances where a search warrant is not needed to search a car.
Ontario Highway Traffic Act s79.(3) A police officer may at any time, without a warrant, stop, enter and search a motor vehicle that he or she has reasonable grounds to believe is equipped with or carries or contains a speed measuring warning device contrary to subsection (2) and may seize and take away any speed measuring warning device found in or upon the motor vehicle. 1996, c. 33, s. 12.
Ontario Liquor License Act s32.(5) A police officer who has reasonable grounds to believe that liquor is being unlawfully kept in a vehicle or boat may at any time, without a warrant, enter and search the vehicle or boat and search any person found in it. R.S.O. 1990, c. L.19, s. 32 (5).
Yes, the following one applies to private cars as well. It just elaborates on the extent of police powers to search and detain you and your car and contents, all without warrant if alcohol is suspected to be in your car in contravention of the law.
Ontario Liquor License Act 44.1 (1) For any purpose relating to the administration and enforcement of this Act, the Liquor Control Act and their regulations, any person authorized by the Registrar who has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that a vehicle, a vessel, railway equipment on rails or an aircraft contains evidence of a contravention of any of those Acts and regulations, (a) may, without warrant, stop and detain the vehicle, vessel, equipment or aircraft;
(b) may examine its contents, including any cargo, manifests, records, accounts, vouchers, papers or other documents that may afford evidence as to the contravention; and
(c) subject to subsection (2), may seize and take away any of the manifests, records, accounts, vouchers, papers or other documents and retain them until they are produced in a court proceeding. 1994, c. 18, s. 5 (4); 2006, c. 34, s. 16 (52).
The next one has been used to stop and search private cars coming from native reserves with untaxed cigarettes. While really intended to combat criminal distribution of untaxed tobacco, it has been used as grounds to search private vehicles based merely on the presence of a lone pack of untaxed smokes in open view.
Ontario Tobacco Tax Act s24. (1) For any purpose relating to the administration and enforcement of this Act and the regulations, any person authorized for the purpose by the Minister who has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the vehicle, trailer attached to a vehicle, vessel, railway equipment on rails or aircraft contains evidence of any contravention of this Act, (a) may, without warrant, stop and detain any vehicle, including any trailer attached to the vehicle, any vessel, railway equipment on rails or aircraft;
You also said -> "They cannot check under your hood without your consent".
Answer to that is also in law.
HTA s82.(2) Every police officer and every officer appointed for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of this Act may require the driver of any motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle to stop, move the vehicle to a safe location as directed by the police officer or officer and submit the vehicle, together with its equipment and any vehicle drawn by it, to the examinations and tests that the police officer or officer may consider expedient. 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 14.
"Expedient" includes checking under the hood if the cop has any questions as to mechanical fitness of components that can only be seen with the hood open.
HTA s82.(8) The driver of a vehicle submitted for examinations and tests as required under subsection (2), (3) or (4) and any other person in charge of the vehicle who is present shall, if directed by a police officer or officer appointed for the purposes of carrying out the provisions of this Act, assist with the examinations and tests of the vehicle and of its equipment. 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 14.
You can argue and object that you do not consent, but a cop doesn't need your consent. You are obligated to assist as necessary in that inspection, including opening the hood.
Offence
HTA s82.(9) Every person is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $1,000 who,
(a) refuses or fails to comply with a requirement made under subsection (2), (3), (4), (5), (8) or (12); or
(b) contravenes an order or prohibition made under subsection (12). 1999, c. 12, Sched. R, s. 14.
After you've finished objecting, extra tickets in hand, you then risk watching your car get towed away for inspection. There may well have been nothing wrong with your car at all, but seeing as you wouldn't "consent" to a roadside inspection, they'll just do it somewhere else. Meanwhile, you may find yourself walking.
Don't believe me? Ask around about the experiences of those stopped for roadside inspections under the ERASE programs over the past couple of years.
And you said -> "when the cops greets you, you greet them back but ask them this "officer on WHAT REASONABLE GROUNDS was I pulled over".
A cop doesn't need "grounds" to stop you if you are driving a vehicle on a public roadway and every cop knows that. Greet a cop like that and all he'll see is a smart *** challenging him.
He'll be sure to look extra hard at you and your car, all within the bounds of the law but exercising the full latitude provided to him by the law. If he issues you any tickets, he'll make extra sure to ensure every t is crossed, every i is dotted, that his notes and evidence are impeccable for when the legal ace sitting in your car goes to court, and he'll be sure to take his sweet time doing it while you sit waiting in your car smug in your "knowledge" of the law.
This is real law and I can back it up with examples from case law where the courts have consistently upheld searches and inspections of vehicles without a search warrant. If a cop really wants to look under your hood or inside your car, there are plenty of legal ways for the cop to achieve that goal.
Last edited by FiveO; 11-Apr-2008 at 02:52 AM.
11-Apr-2008, 06:09 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: At your moms
Posts: 2,633
my father had an 87 s10 pick u with a 400cdi small block nice wheels no cats since the car was older and was tested under the hot rod category which it passed no problem...mto pulled him over on the 407 yanked his plates and towed his car to the pound because he had no cats even though it passed emmissions. 3 weeks later he got the truck back after proving it was legit. 2 days later he got pulled over by the same mto cop on the 407, this time dad had all the correct paper work and what happened?...the guy pulled the plates and towed his truck to the pound stating that the paper work was falsified and that was that. cops and the mto are *****, i give them lip every chance i get.
oh my dad was 60 years old at the time....real nice huh?
oh my dad was 60 years old at the time....real nice huh?
Last edited by LEITNER; 11-Apr-2008 at 06:11 AM.
