iceburg_shorty

i dont know about that, i've driven my sister's auto integra and that thing redlines everytime if u floor it

VEX

BS!

On the automatic Honda & Toyota cars I've driven, I shift when I want. I can be in any gear (without going over redline of course) you want without moving the gear selector. Whenever I feel like cutting someone off, I step on the accelerator a bit harder, it downshifts and is at 4K+ RPM until I release pressure a little. When I feel like taking off the light quickly, I will let it shift at 4, 5, 6K RPM, it is upto the driver. You can bypass the optimum shift points, you are not forced to change gears at the selected RPM range.

scarlemthug

D2 D3 and D4 RULE!!!!!!

imported_echien

Another way you can get instant power is to let off the gas entirely and slam it to the metal right away. On must computers this will tell the tranny to use the most agressive shifting.

imported_echien

Nice try JON... but we can all tell you altered the quote... no real hard core sol lover ever spells "del Sol" with a capital "D".

It's like spelling VTECH.....

Don't believe me??? All formal printed material from Honda always has a little "d". Go check out Club Sol California...

Civic del Sol drivers = The sub-culture within the sub-culture!

cosmic zx2

imported_gatherer

this wins "funniest I dunno what I'm talking about post"

autos being better .. LMAO

ok seriously an automatic trany is called a slush box for a reason it's all hydrolics in there... why is that important in my schooling?

Automatic transmissions have a higher loss of power then a standard gear box. which means less power is getting to the ground. also the driver doesn't have control over when it
shifts ...unless you do those very harmful d2 d3 d4 shifts...

ok so someone will mention that top fuel and funny cars mostly use the slush box so do some import drag racers..... and I'll admit it's a good thing for them to do so... why? because doing a 1/4 mile in 6 seconds the driver doesn't really have tim eto blink let alone shift. so the automatic box slams through the gears .... but those slush boxes have been designed for the best shift points possible and have been beefied up...

comparing stock production cars .. same year same engine same features ... one being a 5spd and one a slush box... the 5spd will have the quickier 0-60 time reported from the manufacturer... why? because real test drivers tested out both cars and know how to drive both. I'd love to prove this too you scarlemthug... just let me know the next time your going to cayuga....(as much as I hate courses with no turns...)

scarlemthug

I said 2 cars with the same power to the wheels jason. The same as someone with a 5spd getting a beefed up clutch, someone with an automatic can get a better torque converter and a tranny oil cooler and be putting more power to the wheels than the tranny would in stock form.

I have heard that the tranny power loss in a 5spd is about 20% whereas in the auto its 30%. Yes you do lose more power through the tranny but my comparison is between 2 cars with the same power to the wheels that weigh the same and both have built up trannies.

When I do my engine swap I will take you up on your offer, when you learn to read carefully that is.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

entirely untrue... maybe on your military-issue auto Civics but on civilian ones... that's pure abuse!

autos are WAY misuderstood, simply b/c as echien correctly pointed out earlier, hardcore ppl drive 5 spd, so they have no reason to understand an auto, and ppl who drive auto aren't hardcore enough to care.

There are TWO types of autos, computer controlled and hydraulically controlled. Since we drive newer cars, I'll talk about the PCM controlled ones --> it's no longer an ECU (Engine Control Unit), it's now a PCM (Powertrain Control Module).

The PCM takes several inputs do determine optimal shifting... TPS, MAP, VSS, ECTS, and obviously the position of the gear selector. So if you put an auto tranny in D1 on the highway, nothing will happen till VSS input drops sufficiently not to blow your motor. This is for the women driver in your household j/k girls...

Beyond the PCM control, there are mechanical controls inside the tranny... what you are saying echien, is that you floor it, back off, and floor it again! This is equivalent to a neutral drop! Reason being, the computer sees TPS~100% so it forces tranny to downshift... then you back off, so PCM tells tranny to shift into next gear... and there is a time delay here as the tranny goes into neutral (kinda like a manual tranny) before going into the next gear... in this process, while the tranny is doing it's thing, you floor it agian like an *******, so the PCM gets TPS~100% again... so now the tranny is inbetween shifts (in neutral) and TPS~100% which means it's revving pretty hard, and it SLAMS into the lowest gear. OUCH! Too many of these, and the solenoids will give out.

Now, why are auto trannies bad? Or are they???

Auto trannies are absolute GOLD for dragging a very powerful car with traction issues... it'll produce the most consistent times, so if you race in bracket racing where your dial-in time wins it or loses it for you... auto is the way to go. In these brackets, a auto Geo Metro could win if it produced consistent 20.xx second timeslips LOL

Auto trannies can be modified to be as good or as bad as you want, but this costs major major $$$, and most enthusiasts with an auto Honda don't have the funds... therefore, they are stuck with stock... and well, stock is just made to shift the tranny so grandma can keep both hands on the wheel.

So, yes, autos are more consistent.... so why does everyone knock them???

Because they are unable to anticipate the need for downshifting and engine breaking for spirited driving. IMO, it would be entirely possible to do it using a gyroscope and accelerometer - kinda like the G-TECH PRO unit as part of input for the PCM to use in determining what the car should be doing. However, this would just add complexity and expense to an already heavy and complex device. And there is no way of totally removing the extra drivetrain loss that an auto has over the 5spd... at least no as needed... you CAN use a lockup converter for highway drives, but it won't help around the city.

On the plus side, autos do shift beautifully... I love the feeling of a brand new car like a Malibu or Impala... and it shifts so smoothly, and it's SOOOO quiet. Too bad they fall apart, but if I was leasing a car, some GM product would totally be my choice... and auto too!!

1niceSi

1995 Impala SS

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

but I was talking about a brand new car if I was leasing one.

I've been looking at Caprice Class for a lowrider.

imported_gatherer

same power to the wheels the 5spd would still win.... hey you know what you have an engine right now that has 0.1 L more displacement then me and produces more horsepower and you claim you need a swap to beat me down the 1/4 mile ... hell I'd pay your entry fee to the track just to prove that production automatics are slower then production 5spds... here you start to talk about beefing up a clutch and torque converters (all of which I agree can be done) but of course you ignored what I was saying and thats ok ... because I did say production car ...in other words stock cars.... ohhh well whatever I have work to do ...

scarlemthug

I read what you said but you obviously ignored what i said. Im not trying to argue that 5spd's arent more fun to drive and dont offer you more control but everyone needs to stop knocking auto's cause its annoying.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

read my post

imported_gatherer

dude I never said Autos suck .... I never said 5spdwas more fun to drive or had more control ... HAVE YOU TRIED DRIVING A 5SPD IN BUMPER TO BUMPER TRAFFIC? (pulovr has stories about a bumpoer to bumper niagara cruise)

I also mentioned how automatics are used in drag racing alot

but I did make one small point about a 5spd and a automatic production cars..

this thread is so off topic

in regards to the original post I don't think I've ever seen an auto mis shift unless ir was messed up.... 5spds can be easily misshifted

scarlemthug

Bruno - Come over to the darkside and get an auto

Jay- I know u didnt trash talk Auto trannies. Check where the post above my original post in this thread and u will understand. I know a production 5spd will be faster in the quarter mile than a production auto

imported_94EG6HB

It is important to remember that D4 is the overdrive gear.

For City driving D3 is sufficent for passing and cruising.

D3 will get you to about >120 kms before you should be worried about shifting out.

Trick is that you don't want to shift out because you will **** YOUR TRANNY over time.

So drive it to a stop and then select D4..

It will also avoid the dreaded honda transmission gear hunting and keep you in the torque band..

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Aaron, that is an excellent point, the 1st saturn I had was auto (which is another reason I sold it), and around the city I drove it in D3, and if I expected to get to 80-100 kms/hr, at the light before, I'd shift into OD, and be all good! Get better mileage that way, and way less wear on the tranny.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I've owned more auto tranny cars than I have manuals, but currently all three cars are manual, and my dad's car is manual as well, so all 4 cars in the house have three pedals each

imported_gatherer

wow thats 12 pedals in total