Danger **do Not Go To Formula Honda**
12-Apr-2003, 06:23 PM
#1
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Danger **do Not Go To Formula Honda**
Today I went to Formula Honda in Scarborough with a friend of mine. He drives a Black '98 Honda Prelude with a few mods - body kit, exhaust, intake, etc.. and brand new rims. If you don't want to read anymore, the gist of the story is that his brand new rims were chipped and scratched when we came to pick up the car.
Here's the way things happened:
Thursday - my friend buys his brand new rims and has them installed at Steve's Tires.
Friday - my buddy calls up Formula Honda and asks them how much it would be for Pro-Kit Springs and an allignment. They give him a price quote and he agrees to come in on Saturday morning.
Saturday morning - My friend goes to Formula Honda to drop off the car and all of a sudden the price of the alignment and springs + install goes up by $100. He sucks it up, being the guy that he is and says "okay fine, but please when you're taking the rims on and off please use the lug nut key in the car and only do it by hand and not with the gun". He said the thing about doing the lug nuts by hand because Steve's Tires said that the gun will damage the lug nut holes on the rims. The service guy says okay and I swing by to pick up my buddy.
Saturday afternoon - We come to pick up his car and while we're looking at how low the pro-kit drop is, we both notice that his wheel lug nut holes have chips and scratches. We're like "WTF is going on?!".
We call over the customer relations guy/service manager? (Gary Ramalho), who takes a look, agrees that there is damage there and then asks to see the wheel lug nut key.
When he see's the wheel lug nut key - he puts it on a lug nut, moves it around and says "This key is obviously too big for the lug nut and must have caused the damage". We're like "okay, so if it's obvsiouly too big, why did the guy use it and damage all the lug nut holes?!". He's like "well.... blah blah blah lets go into my office."
Before we go into his office the customer relations guy goes "Formula Honda is not at fault here, it's the key's fault - the guy who sold you the rims, sold you a bad key". So my friend, who was very upset already, calls up Steve's Tires and asks Steve about the key. Steve says "no, we used that key to install the rims when you came to pick up the car and then we gave the key to you".
Just to let you know, my buddy is a picky bastard and checked all the rims completely when he picked them up from Steve's Tires and there was NO damage... they were brand new. Obviously, Steve's Tires knew how to take on and off the rims.
Anyhow, we're in his office and the Customer Relations guy goes on and on about how the key was at fault, the key was customer supplied so it's not Formula Honda's fault that the damage occured. I go "if you put the key on, damage one lug nut hole - that's fine, you couldn't have forseen that or known it would happen, that would have been okay, and my friend would have accepted it. But, if you see that it caused damage on one hole, how can you go on to take on and off EVERY other lug nut and damage EVERY other hole?!!!". He's like "well, that's hind-sight bias, we couldn't have predicted the damage". I go "You don't look at the lug nut holes when you take on and off rims?!". Anyhow this goes on for a while, and he eventually agrees to writing down "Rims were damaged on delivery of vehicle to customer, may have been caused by customer supplied lug nut key". We say, okay, lets leave, we're obviously not getting anywhere.
We go outside and we're waiting for the bill so we can get out of there. My buddy is really upset. He's the nicest guy you'll ever meet and doesn't like arguing with anyone. He's the quiet type who doesn't like to get into confrontations and usually lets stuff go.... I'm a little bit more of a bastard when it comes to this kind of stuff ;l) Anyhow, 15 minutes later, it's 5:30pm and the dealership is closing and we finally tell someone to get the customer relations guy to give us the invoice. When he hands us the invoice it says on it "Formula Honda is not responsible for damage to rims on deliver of vehicle to customer due to the customer supplied lug nut key". So my buddy is basically screwed. If he signs the invoice and pays them, he is a b*tch and if he doesn't, they impound his car. Meanwhile, all the people in the dealership are like "we want to go home, blah blah" cause it was closing time. So my buddy, who like I said doesn't like to get into confrontations signs the sheet just so he can take his car home - he needs to have a car for work and other stuff so there was no way he could have even thought about leaving the car there.
So anyway, we went to Formula Honda, they misquited a price, messed up my buddies rims and then claimed that they didn't do anything wrong.
I don't think so. If you are a technician and you're told to do a job, you have to pay attention to what you're doing. If you pay attention, you'll notice that the lug nut holes got chipped and damaged when you took off one wheel let alone did one lug nut. Instead of noticing and stopping, he took off all the wheels, put them back on and damaged all the lug nut holes. If you're a mechanic, you don't use an 11mm wrench to take off a 10mm bolt. You use the right tool for the job. If this guy didn't think the tool was right, and if it was "obviously not the right size", he should have stopped and not damaged the rest of my buddies brand new rims. Furthermore, as a dealership you shouldn't write something on an invoice, agree to it and then turn around 15 minutes later and change it before a customer has to sign it. I think they were negligent in taking off the rims, and were really poor in customer relations in dealing with the issue. The customer realations guy basically made my friend feel stupid, said that my friend may have brought the rims in already damaged, and then changed the invoice on my friend and frankly bullied him out the door.
If you think Formula Honda treated my friend like a good customer, and gave him the respect he deserved, then keep giving them business. If you feel that my friend was screwed, or that Formula Honda should have assumed at least part of the damage or at the VERY least said SORRY or something, then DO NOT GIVE THEM BUSINESS and DO NOT GO TO ANY OF THEIR SHOWS.
If you want your stuff installed right, don't take it to Formula Honda, there are plenty of dealerships that would love to help you out with your service and won't treat you like garbage and basically tell you to screw yourself when something goes wrong.
Here's the way things happened:
Thursday - my friend buys his brand new rims and has them installed at Steve's Tires.
Friday - my buddy calls up Formula Honda and asks them how much it would be for Pro-Kit Springs and an allignment. They give him a price quote and he agrees to come in on Saturday morning.
Saturday morning - My friend goes to Formula Honda to drop off the car and all of a sudden the price of the alignment and springs + install goes up by $100. He sucks it up, being the guy that he is and says "okay fine, but please when you're taking the rims on and off please use the lug nut key in the car and only do it by hand and not with the gun". He said the thing about doing the lug nuts by hand because Steve's Tires said that the gun will damage the lug nut holes on the rims. The service guy says okay and I swing by to pick up my buddy.
Saturday afternoon - We come to pick up his car and while we're looking at how low the pro-kit drop is, we both notice that his wheel lug nut holes have chips and scratches. We're like "WTF is going on?!".
We call over the customer relations guy/service manager? (Gary Ramalho), who takes a look, agrees that there is damage there and then asks to see the wheel lug nut key.
When he see's the wheel lug nut key - he puts it on a lug nut, moves it around and says "This key is obviously too big for the lug nut and must have caused the damage". We're like "okay, so if it's obvsiouly too big, why did the guy use it and damage all the lug nut holes?!". He's like "well.... blah blah blah lets go into my office."
Before we go into his office the customer relations guy goes "Formula Honda is not at fault here, it's the key's fault - the guy who sold you the rims, sold you a bad key". So my friend, who was very upset already, calls up Steve's Tires and asks Steve about the key. Steve says "no, we used that key to install the rims when you came to pick up the car and then we gave the key to you".
Just to let you know, my buddy is a picky bastard and checked all the rims completely when he picked them up from Steve's Tires and there was NO damage... they were brand new. Obviously, Steve's Tires knew how to take on and off the rims.
Anyhow, we're in his office and the Customer Relations guy goes on and on about how the key was at fault, the key was customer supplied so it's not Formula Honda's fault that the damage occured. I go "if you put the key on, damage one lug nut hole - that's fine, you couldn't have forseen that or known it would happen, that would have been okay, and my friend would have accepted it. But, if you see that it caused damage on one hole, how can you go on to take on and off EVERY other lug nut and damage EVERY other hole?!!!". He's like "well, that's hind-sight bias, we couldn't have predicted the damage". I go "You don't look at the lug nut holes when you take on and off rims?!". Anyhow this goes on for a while, and he eventually agrees to writing down "Rims were damaged on delivery of vehicle to customer, may have been caused by customer supplied lug nut key". We say, okay, lets leave, we're obviously not getting anywhere.
We go outside and we're waiting for the bill so we can get out of there. My buddy is really upset. He's the nicest guy you'll ever meet and doesn't like arguing with anyone. He's the quiet type who doesn't like to get into confrontations and usually lets stuff go.... I'm a little bit more of a bastard when it comes to this kind of stuff ;l) Anyhow, 15 minutes later, it's 5:30pm and the dealership is closing and we finally tell someone to get the customer relations guy to give us the invoice. When he hands us the invoice it says on it "Formula Honda is not responsible for damage to rims on deliver of vehicle to customer due to the customer supplied lug nut key". So my buddy is basically screwed. If he signs the invoice and pays them, he is a b*tch and if he doesn't, they impound his car. Meanwhile, all the people in the dealership are like "we want to go home, blah blah" cause it was closing time. So my buddy, who like I said doesn't like to get into confrontations signs the sheet just so he can take his car home - he needs to have a car for work and other stuff so there was no way he could have even thought about leaving the car there.
So anyway, we went to Formula Honda, they misquited a price, messed up my buddies rims and then claimed that they didn't do anything wrong.
I don't think so. If you are a technician and you're told to do a job, you have to pay attention to what you're doing. If you pay attention, you'll notice that the lug nut holes got chipped and damaged when you took off one wheel let alone did one lug nut. Instead of noticing and stopping, he took off all the wheels, put them back on and damaged all the lug nut holes. If you're a mechanic, you don't use an 11mm wrench to take off a 10mm bolt. You use the right tool for the job. If this guy didn't think the tool was right, and if it was "obviously not the right size", he should have stopped and not damaged the rest of my buddies brand new rims. Furthermore, as a dealership you shouldn't write something on an invoice, agree to it and then turn around 15 minutes later and change it before a customer has to sign it. I think they were negligent in taking off the rims, and were really poor in customer relations in dealing with the issue. The customer realations guy basically made my friend feel stupid, said that my friend may have brought the rims in already damaged, and then changed the invoice on my friend and frankly bullied him out the door.
If you think Formula Honda treated my friend like a good customer, and gave him the respect he deserved, then keep giving them business. If you feel that my friend was screwed, or that Formula Honda should have assumed at least part of the damage or at the VERY least said SORRY or something, then DO NOT GIVE THEM BUSINESS and DO NOT GO TO ANY OF THEIR SHOWS.
If you want your stuff installed right, don't take it to Formula Honda, there are plenty of dealerships that would love to help you out with your service and won't treat you like garbage and basically tell you to screw yourself when something goes wrong.
12-Apr-2003, 09:46 PM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,237
I hate when shops do that, not only do you pay so much, and they still **** it up, thanks for the heads up. ps you should off just stayed in the shop and not signed the thing, stay, until they call the cops, that way you could later take them to small claims court.
12-Apr-2003, 10:11 PM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,461
That really sucks man! I feel for your buddy. Something similar happened to me at Ideal Honda in Mississauga, but it was engine related. That's the reason why I don't take my car to any Honda dealership any more.
12-Apr-2003, 10:32 PM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Your friend should of done this.
Cross out the writing "Honda is not responsible for the damage"
initial it on top.
Sign and pay the bill.
Tell them that you'll talk with the service manager and the actual manger (who owns the place) about this issue since they were closing. They can't make you sign the paper and threaten to take your car because of this.
Here's the arguement.
your buddy is not a certified tech, and he did do his job of advising the dealer to remove the nuts manually.
As you mentioned, the dealer should of been TRAINED to notice that the it damaged the rim initially.
you can't blame the customer for this because it is the dealer's job to check the entire car and note any damages.
Bring them to small-claims court (80 bucks or so) to file the papers and then file a complaint with Honda Canada.
My friend brought her car for the Type 4 service and they broke her window. LOL.. Formula Honda does have quite a bad rep.
Cross out the writing "Honda is not responsible for the damage"
initial it on top.
Sign and pay the bill.
Tell them that you'll talk with the service manager and the actual manger (who owns the place) about this issue since they were closing. They can't make you sign the paper and threaten to take your car because of this.
Here's the arguement.
your buddy is not a certified tech, and he did do his job of advising the dealer to remove the nuts manually.
As you mentioned, the dealer should of been TRAINED to notice that the it damaged the rim initially.
you can't blame the customer for this because it is the dealer's job to check the entire car and note any damages.
Bring them to small-claims court (80 bucks or so) to file the papers and then file a complaint with Honda Canada.
My friend brought her car for the Type 4 service and they broke her window. LOL.. Formula Honda does have quite a bad rep.
13-Apr-2003, 12:16 AM
#7
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Why would you take a car with aftermarket equipment on to a daler in the firstplace ? I know formula honda has a rep for servicig "souped" up cars but your buddy shouldn't have signed it if he wasnt satisfied. Tell him to file a complaint to HONDA CANADA. They might do something. Also Formula Honda gives you a hard time whe warrantying stuff as well.
13-Apr-2003, 01:58 AM
#8
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Thanks for the comments guys.
I agree with you guys that we shouldn't have left. My buddy just didn't really want to have cops show up and remove us off private property 'cause then he would have had a problem with that charge (trespassing) and he'd still lose his car....
He plans to fight it in court and if you guys tell your friends not to go to Formula Honda, it'll be fought with our feet too (as we go to other places to do our work).
See I live in London and go to London Honda all the time to get mods done, service work, etc. The service manager hooks me up with next to cost on every tuner product you can imagine, hooks me up with cheaper install fees, regular maintenance, service fees, etc. and even gives me a loaner car to drive when I need to get around and have to leave the car (otherwise he hooks me up with rides to and from school). I'm used to amaizing service from a dealership like I get at London Honda... so I was completely shocked by what happened at Formula Honda. I've never been treated like dirt before. Oh well, I know I'm not going there ever again and neither are any of my friends...
I agree with you guys that we shouldn't have left. My buddy just didn't really want to have cops show up and remove us off private property 'cause then he would have had a problem with that charge (trespassing) and he'd still lose his car....
He plans to fight it in court and if you guys tell your friends not to go to Formula Honda, it'll be fought with our feet too (as we go to other places to do our work).
See I live in London and go to London Honda all the time to get mods done, service work, etc. The service manager hooks me up with next to cost on every tuner product you can imagine, hooks me up with cheaper install fees, regular maintenance, service fees, etc. and even gives me a loaner car to drive when I need to get around and have to leave the car (otherwise he hooks me up with rides to and from school). I'm used to amaizing service from a dealership like I get at London Honda... so I was completely shocked by what happened at Formula Honda. I've never been treated like dirt before. Oh well, I know I'm not going there ever again and neither are any of my friends...
13-Apr-2003, 01:58 AM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Honda
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Definitely contact Honda Canada. If you have time, a letter is better than a phone call. Honda Canada directly, likely won't do anything but the will probably contact the dealer and have them confirm and maybe have your friend go back to the dealer and talk to the Service Manager. I know you don't want to go back but I think it would worthwhile to at least get an apology if nothing else.... What is there to lose? I think in the worst case, they would give him an apology and in the best case, refund the repair or offer to pay for repairing the wheels.
Just my $0.02
Mark
Personally, I would really just want an apology. What happened, happened. I agree, the way it was handled was not good.
Unfortunately, for those who refuse to take there cars to a Honda dealer, may have to with their next Honda. This is because of the special tools required to diagnose these cars. Don't blame Honda, blame the government and in some ways blame technology.....
Just my $0.02
Mark
Personally, I would really just want an apology. What happened, happened. I agree, the way it was handled was not good.
Unfortunately, for those who refuse to take there cars to a Honda dealer, may have to with their next Honda. This is because of the special tools required to diagnose these cars. Don't blame Honda, blame the government and in some ways blame technology.....
13-Apr-2003, 12:11 PM
#10
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Sorry to hear that dude! I think most dealerships will give you the runaround if they did something wrong. They will never admit at fault. Just out of curiosity, how much did your buddy pay to get the springs installed at Formula?
14-Apr-2003, 10:04 AM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North York
Posts: 516
Whatever happened to 'Honda's uncomparibale service' I kept hearing about in the mid 90's. Now all I hear about is how they have **** service all the time.
It's almost like they know their cars kicks ***, so they don't have to worry about good customer service because they know they will always have a demand for their cars.
If you ask me Honda is really starting to **** me off on numerous accounts.
It's almost like they know their cars kicks ***, so they don't have to worry about good customer service because they know they will always have a demand for their cars.
If you ask me Honda is really starting to **** me off on numerous accounts.
14-Apr-2003, 12:51 PM
#13
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,562
To be honest, calling Honda Canada won't do a heck of alot as dealers operate relatively independant of Honda. Its worth a try, but don't expect much. IMO, having aftermarket parts on your car, you really shouldn't be taking it in to the dealer in the first place, as most dealer technician's likely don't have the experience in dealing with certain aftermarket parts, such as your buddy's rims and therefore things may be damaged.
Just my 2 cents.
Just my 2 cents.
15-Apr-2003, 11:43 AM
#15
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Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,255
Well, I know that when used to go to Richmond Hill Honda, they took care of my baby. When I asked them to NOT use the impact on the rims, they didn't. I know that some of the guys up there drive modded civic's, or have friends that do, and understand how **** we can be with our rides, that's why in MY case, they treated my car the way it should be. I also know that some of you have gone there and supposedly gotton crappy service....(can't speak for you), but the only person I deal with when I go there is Marvin (in parts) and Nancy (in service).
Every dealer has it good and bad. (people that is), I think that at Richmond, I found the "good" ones.
Every dealer has it good and bad. (people that is), I think that at Richmond, I found the "good" ones.
15-Apr-2003, 12:00 PM
#16
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As a side note, I have been to Formula in the past, I felt that the parts guy's were distracted. I mean...when a customer comes into parts or service, you should be welcomed with a smile and a "How are you today?". The 2 times I went there.......
1. stood in parts (at the counter) for a goood 15 mins WITHOUT even a look in my direction. Had to leave, or I would've been late for work.
2. parts again.....went in to get a price quote for a set of rims for my friends car (he came with me). Stood around for 10 min this time....finally got to ask......then waited.......and waited.....and waited.......ect....ect...ect.....then found out the guy that was getting our price quote, had gone on lunch, and didn't even bother to tell anyone this!!! :fustrated
And when they did go to him and ask about the price info, he told them that he was on lunch, and said something along the lines of.."I'll get back to them when I finish my food."
I later called the dealership, and complained about the way we were treated.......guess what they offered my friend and I? We were each to get a free oil change. Went in to get the coupons, and then gave them both to my next door neighbour.
After that treatment, I wouldn't go back there, but I also won't refuse a FREE "gift" either. If they wan't to give away free stuff, I'll let them, it's not my money that they are wasting.
I guess it just depends on the PEOPLE you deal with in the dealership. At Richmond, at least thoses 2 people are
.
1. stood in parts (at the counter) for a goood 15 mins WITHOUT even a look in my direction. Had to leave, or I would've been late for work.
2. parts again.....went in to get a price quote for a set of rims for my friends car (he came with me). Stood around for 10 min this time....finally got to ask......then waited.......and waited.....and waited.......ect....ect...ect.....then found out the guy that was getting our price quote, had gone on lunch, and didn't even bother to tell anyone this!!! :fustrated
And when they did go to him and ask about the price info, he told them that he was on lunch, and said something along the lines of.."I'll get back to them when I finish my food."
I later called the dealership, and complained about the way we were treated.......guess what they offered my friend and I? We were each to get a free oil change. Went in to get the coupons, and then gave them both to my next door neighbour.
After that treatment, I wouldn't go back there, but I also won't refuse a FREE "gift" either. If they wan't to give away free stuff, I'll let them, it's not my money that they are wasting.
I guess it just depends on the PEOPLE you deal with in the dealership. At Richmond, at least thoses 2 people are
.
16-Apr-2003, 01:33 PM
#17
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When I bought my car from Terrace Gate Acura I bought the 60,000km service contract and rustproofing. The service contract supposedly covered everything bumper to bumper (so the sales associate said) My clutch started acting up last weekend and guess what.. ITs not covered.
Also when I bought my car they said that they would change the timing belt/water pump for me and that it would be included in the price that I was paying. When I picked it up I found out that it had not been replaced even though it was promised by the service manager and was told that "It was not written down".
To top this all off when I first got the car when I put the aircondition/heater fan on 1 or 2 the thing makes a noise so I brought this up also.. he said that they won't fix it and that it would cost me $200 to get it looked at and that the unit itself costs $600. He said It was probably a leaf stuck or something.. I can guarantee its not a leaf.. because its still happening.
DO not buy from Terrace Gate acura.. horrible service.. and cheating ppl out of the deal they thought they were getting.
Also when I bought my car they said that they would change the timing belt/water pump for me and that it would be included in the price that I was paying. When I picked it up I found out that it had not been replaced even though it was promised by the service manager and was told that "It was not written down".
To top this all off when I first got the car when I put the aircondition/heater fan on 1 or 2 the thing makes a noise so I brought this up also.. he said that they won't fix it and that it would cost me $200 to get it looked at and that the unit itself costs $600. He said It was probably a leaf stuck or something.. I can guarantee its not a leaf.. because its still happening.
DO not buy from Terrace Gate acura.. horrible service.. and cheating ppl out of the deal they thought they were getting.
16-Apr-2003, 06:54 PM
#19
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Went to Formula Honda to get water pump change, the scratched my front left quarter panel, I couldn't prove that so they got away with it, pretty pissed,
Then I went to get an alignment done there, they did the front but the said the back was seased so they couldn't adjust it. I ended paying full price.
The parts guys are snobby and when I was interested in looking at a prelude they didn't let me test drive it.
FORMULA HONDA SUCKS A$$!!!
Then I went to get an alignment done there, they did the front but the said the back was seased so they couldn't adjust it. I ended paying full price.
The parts guys are snobby and when I was interested in looking at a prelude they didn't let me test drive it.
FORMULA HONDA SUCKS A$$!!!
16-Apr-2003, 07:50 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 1,172
Someone should email the Manager at Formula Honda this thread, maybe that way they'll realize how word travels and how business gets lost.
I'M BANNING FORMULA HONDA
Their service is really crap!
I'M BANNING FORMULA HONDA
Their service is really crap!
