Bob L.

Hi everyone,
New member here with a strange noise.

Basic info...

Stock 2002 Civic EX with 170,xxx miles. Timing belt and clutch replaced about 15k miles ago.

The noise sounds a like I'm in reverse, with straight cut gears, but it's in the forward gears and only when moving. Clutch pedal in or out, doesn't matter.

The pitch of the noise is directly related the speed that the car is rolling. Faster = higher pitch
As stated in title, the noise comes and goes with no obvious cause.

I have been told "input shaft bearing" but my research tells me otherwise.

I'm thinking wheel bearing, CV joint or maybe output shaft bearing

I would appreciate any info you feel may be useful.

Thanks, Bob.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

If it's a wheel bearing the noise will increase/decrease proportionate to vehicle speed, or a diff bearing on the output side of the trans, if it's an input bearing, release bearing(not likely these tend to make noise as you press the clutch) or pilot bearing they are spinning at engine RPM speed and the noise will increase as you accelerate, but then diminish when you shift and rise again as you go thru the next gear.

Do you have access to a hoist or will you ultimately be going to a tech for repairs and just wanna be educated about the problem before hand? I'm just asking because I can help guide you a little further with diag on this if you do have a hoist.

If this helps and leads you to further think the noise is on the output side of things, then first take a few corners with the car and see if that changes the noise, if so then more likely the bearing being loaded up by the weight transfer, but not 100% of the time. Putting one wheel up in the air and spinning it by hand and squeezing the coils of the suspension with the other and you might notice a ruff vibration on the side with the bad bearing as well.

CV shafts usually if they developed an issue would be due to a torn open boot and you'd see grease everywhere around that boot, the out put bearings are very uncommon and would likely cause a leak as well, tho this can be a very slight leak for quite some time so still worth while checking that, a little play when shaking the inner CV cup is normal, just a little tho, if it feels sloppy it's probably too much. Sounds silly but I'd describe it as a very rigid amount of play when it's ok, like it'll feel a bit mushy if it's too much but again this is very uncommon.

Most likely you're correct in thinking a wheel bearing, just making sure which one can be the tricky part.

Bob L.

Dusty,

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a lift but do have jack stands. I may still try to fix it myself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "squeezing" the suspension coil with my hand.
Will I be able to move it much, if at all?

Will this help differentiate between the differential bearing and a wheel bearing or just which side diff bearing is bad?

Bob.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

when I say squeezing the coils, you don't need to compress them at all, but when you have a tight grip on them and that wheel spinning, the roughness if any in that bearing will reverberate thru to your hand. You can actually feel the chunky grinding of a bad bearing (usually) This is a trick for the wheel bearings. The differential ones are harder. If you put the drive wheels up in the air and have someone run the car in gear while using a screw driver as a stethoscope and touch each side of the diff and listen for which side is louder to find out which is the issue there tho this is very uncommon on your car. Particularly without leaking trans fluid. The wheel bearings will be a very hard thing to change at home unless you have a fairly serious press like around 15 ton. You will also want to have a good penetrant and "C" clip pliers. Removing the spindle containing the bad bearing and taking it to a shop can save you both money, but as well a lot of frustration. Plus if they supply/install the bearing and mess up the install they can replace it, you'll be SOL if something goes wrong at home.

Bob L.

Ah, that makes more sense. I'll try it when the weather gets better.

Thanks again.

Bob L.

I finally had time to check things out and it's not the wheel bearing. The noise has gotten worse. I'm pretty sure it's the differential bearing.

I have seen a pretty good video on replacing it and I can handle it. Should I do both left and right output/differential bearings? How about the input shaft bearings as long as I'm there? Synchro's?

Any words of caution before I start?

Thanks for your input.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

IF you're going thru the trouble of pulling your trans out and opening it up, then I'd look into something like this...

D-Series

they don't have your trans listed on the site but if you contact them they can probably put something together for you along the lines of their rebuild kits for the older d series trans.

Bob L.

I don't see too many around. Don't really trust e-bay/amazon quality.

How does this set look?
Bearing & Seal Kit D17 2001-2005 Honda Civic DX/LX/EX

OR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Civic-...0901ee&vxp=mtr

At least they're Japanese.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I'd go with the first of your options there. As for the option I listed they are great for shipping and you can only get their parts from them, at least back when I bought from them. Maybe try messaging them and asking what they can do for you, or go with the first kit you posted. It looks good and I've heard okay reviews of them as well.

Bob L.

Well, it's done, sort of.
I got the tranny out, open and replaced the diff and input shaft bearings. PIA!
The input shaft bearings were obviously bad and the trans shifts nicer and feels tighter.
HOWEVER...The noise persists!!!
I'll be doing the wheel bearings soon.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

Well first off good job on the rebuild.

Second due to my own experience recently, I broke a drive shaft, just not completely to the point where it made horrible noise and there was no visible damage without taking it completely apart. Grabbing the shaft and moving it side to side tho and there was a lot more movement on the one side then the other, tho it took a lot of abuse to get it to this condition, so I'd still say this is unlikely the problem, more likely a wheel bearing. This is a job that to me is much easier then rebuilding your trans, but again you'll need a 20 ton press or so, and it's very easy to do wrong and then you need to buy a new bearing again. This is a job I recommend paying a shop to do. Skill aside, its a slightly risky job, and impossible without the right tools.

Bob L.

Well it seems I celebrated too soon...
It was fine for 2 weeks and on the way home today it got harder to shift into the lower gears and reverse. Sometimes it is smooth and sometimes I have to give it a good shove. Also started making a completely new to me noise. Now it sounds like the input shaft bearing, I think.
In my head I imagine the main shaft is shifting position and gets harder to shift. Is this what is happening or is there a better explanation?

There was one bearing that I didn't change when I was there. It looked good. Well F*@k me!

Let this be a lesson for those who come after me.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I'm gonna guess the one bearing you didn't change was the one pressed into the case that you can't push the other side to pop it out? Hopefully everything was seated properly and lined up right when you put it all back together. I am a supporter of fixing things rather than replacing but the good thing about a D is that the engine/trans are usually so cheap to buy it makes more sense to swap them out.

Bob L.

You are correct Dusty. That is the bearing I left alone and it still looks good.
However... the 5th gear synchro is jammed/stuck to the tapered cone ring and there is friction build up or wear on the piece below it.

According to the mechanic the angular bearing (top of stack) was upside down. He also says I used the wrong gear oil. I used Lucas oil synth 75-90 gear oil. He thinks I should have used motor oil. I think he said 5w30.

So what say you? Sound reasonable.

Thanks again. Bob.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

90's Honda's used 5w30. Now they use Honda MTF, and that is kinda better in any Honda trans.