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Speeding Ticket - Entrapment?

Old 04-Jun-2010, 01:06 PM
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Exclamation Speeding Ticket - Entrapment?

Warning… this is just a rant and I would like to publically b!tch about my most recent speeding ticket.

Last night I was on my way back from Markham, I as driving on Elgin Mills and if any of you are familiar with Richmond Hill/Markham, you will know there are no lights on the street and it is a fairly quiet road. Anyways, I was with my friend who told me to watch my speed as we were approaching Markham Fair Grounds, as cops normally hide there. So I slowed down a little but told my friend I was only 10km over the limit. After passing the Fair Grounds… lights came on and my immediate reaction – f*ck me! Lol

Cop pulled me over, saying “I clocked you doing 89km in a 60km.” I was like what! It’s an 80km limit. He’s like no it’s a 60km… basically – ignorance is a bliss. I absolutely had no idea that it was a 60km. Cop handed me a reduced ticket to 75km in a 60km…. how nice of him

After I drove away, me and my friend had a debate. I’m curious for other peoples input in this matter. My friend told me that because the cop was sitting at the side of the road, no lights on, not visible to the eye that it is entrapment. I completely disagree with him. The cop was fully visible, we just didn’t see him. He was sitting on the side of the street, it’s not the cops problem there are no lights… even if he wasn’t visible to the human eye, does it even matter? Do cops have to be in sight in order to do radar??
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Old 04-Jun-2010, 04:12 PM
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Cops don't have to be visible, they don;t have to have headlights on, parking lights on, or anything else while they wait for someone to break their radar beam.

BUT, I have heard that they need to have their hat on for the ticket to be valid.

By the way, entrapment is something else entirely. It's when a cop encourages you or coerces you to break a law that you would not ordinarily break on your own. Tricking a known drug dealer to sell you drugs is not entrapment. Convincing someone with no such history to sell drugs for you is. An undercover cop revving his engine while you sit at a traffic light is not entrapment. An undercover cop approaching you with a bet before racing is. An undercover cop accepting a bet when you approach him is not. Entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-Jun-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FiveO View Post
BUT, I have heard that they need to have their hat on for the ticket to be valid.
And if you believe that...
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Old 04-Jun-2010, 05:32 PM
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the hat thing is bullshit... the guy who has the ex-cop blog had a post dispelling that myth... also the cop's cruiser has flourescent markings all over the car so they are still alerting you that they are there even if he's not outside waving a bright orange flag... but i do agree the speed limit probably could have been more visible...
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Old 04-Jun-2010, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stev View Post
but i do agree the speed limit probably could have been more visible...
Unless the sign has moved, it seems visible enough here just before the fair grounds. elgin mills rd, markham, on - Google Maps

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/marcelf/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FiveO View Post
And if you believe that...
i am not an idiot but thank you and i was not looking for your sarcastic remark
other then that, thank you for your input
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by miss_jess View Post
Warning… this is just a rant and I would like to publically b!tch about my most recent speeding ticket.

Last night I was on my way back from Markham, I as driving on Elgin Mills and if any of you are familiar with Richmond Hill/Markham, you will know there are no lights on the street and it is a fairly quiet road. Anyways, I was with my friend who told me to watch my speed as we were approaching Markham Fair Grounds, as cops normally hide there. So I slowed down a little but told my friend I was only 10km over the limit. After passing the Fair Grounds… lights came on and my immediate reaction – f*ck me! Lol

Cop pulled me over, saying “I clocked you doing 89km in a 60km.” I was like what! It’s an 80km limit. He’s like no it’s a 60km… basically – ignorance is a bliss. I absolutely had no idea that it was a 60km. Cop handed me a reduced ticket to 75km in a 60km…. how nice of him

After I drove away, me and my friend had a debate. I’m curious for other peoples input in this matter. My friend told me that because the cop was sitting at the side of the road, no lights on, not visible to the eye that it is entrapment. I completely disagree with him. The cop was fully visible, we just didn’t see him. He was sitting on the side of the street, it’s not the cops problem there are no lights… even if he wasn’t visible to the human eye, does it even matter? Do cops have to be in sight in order to do radar??
There is no such law. Nor is it an admissible excuse.

Just fight it. The prosecutor always cuts a deal.
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by miss_jess View Post
this is true... i got pulled over for driving many many many km over the limit, I dont want to post it, but yeah, I more or less told the officer I was lost and I got let go
... karma is a little diiiiirrrty b itch
maan. u shuda gone with the where the @%@ am i? im lost story again eh

but no, really these days they try to hide and do that shyt... i saw one down markham hiding behind a light post with his radar gun pointed toward oncoming traffic... but i would have asked to see the reading none the less,most cases they just think ur goin fast and pick a number off the top of their head... and if they say they didn't have the gun on u, then u cudda said there was no proof, and u have a witness to +1
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 07:32 PM
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...and luckily u work for an insurance company lol..=)
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 08:16 PM
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I once had a cop pull me over for doing 160 in a 60. I said to him that my POS couldn't even break past 130 and I was actually keeping up with traffic at 100 in a 80. He let me off with a warning, only because he was tired and lazy, and it was the end of his shift when he pulled me over. Like mugenn said, they will pick a number off the top of their head, and the cop assumed I was going that fast cause he said that my car looked fast... LOL
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mugenn.civic.09 View Post
... karma is a little diiiiirrrty b itch
maan. u shuda gone with the where the @%@ am i? im lost story again eh
karma is a dirty b!tch? please clarify...

Originally Posted by Mugenn.civic.09 View Post
...and luckily u work for an insurance company lol..=)
and yes... yes i am lucky
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Old 05-Jun-2010, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by miss_jess View Post
karma is a dirty b!tch? please clarify...

well... not exactly karma bad choice of words, i guess you can say those words came around and bit u in the *** lol.

and yes... yes i am lucky
haha damn how much i wish i could...
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Old 06-Jun-2010, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by miss_jess View Post
i am not an idiot but thank you and i was not looking for your sarcastic remark
other then that, thank you for your input
Believe it or not, some people really do believe that a traffic ticket is not valid if the cop isn't in full uniform. It's right up there it's illegal for a cop to do radar at night without his lights on.
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by FiveO View Post
Believe it or not, some people really do believe that a traffic ticket is not valid if the cop isn't in full uniform. It's right up there it's illegal for a cop to do radar at night without his lights on.
Lol... talk about a pylon to the extreme!!!! First off glad you know the area lol... but the sign by Markham fair grounds is not the sign w/mccowan now is it??? that would be the east side of mccowan heading w/b the speed limit sign on the w/sd of mccowan... you know e/kennedy..... just want to make sure we are clear is a little difficult to see....

Secondly.. since we are gonna play smartass.... I think its comical but maybe you havent been in that area in a while bet kennedy & mccowan on elgin mills there are no street lights... which guess what genius.... means a police officer sitting in a cruiser with no lights... a) isnt visible unless you are travelling in the same direction with which he is facing... and b) really isnt safe now is it?? especially since that part of elgin mills has such a wide shoulder..... *sarc*

Thirdly usually when someone is asking a question.... u dont mock them.... but I guess u obviously know all when it comes to the law.... cuz your street racing comment.. is also not correct... might want to check that one.... "if an undercover car.... (the modified ones) rev there engine at a light and take off with you... its entrapment.... cuz guess what genius.. u woulnt race a cop car.... and if you did well... your own stupidity.... and to prove my fact... you quoted wikipedia......... enough said!!!

But keep up the great work!!!!!!
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 12:58 AM
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besides i guess police are allowed to break the laws.... cuz there are signs all along that part of elgin mills that say no parking.... but I guess he was idling.... so he was "stopped" not parked... but then I guess he was then violating the idle law... but again its ok *wink* they have their own rules my mistake
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FiveO View Post
Believe it or not, some people really do believe that a traffic ticket is not valid if the cop isn't in full uniform. It's right up there it's illegal for a cop to do radar at night without his lights on.
Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
Lol... talk about a pylon to the extreme!!!! First off glad you know the area lol... but the sign by Markham fair grounds is not the sign w/mccowan now is it??? that would be the east side of mccowan heading w/b the speed limit sign on the w/sd of mccowan... you know e/kennedy..... just want to make sure we are clear is a little difficult to see....

Secondly.. since we are gonna play smartass.... I think its comical but maybe you havent been in that area in a while bet kennedy & mccowan on elgin mills there are no street lights... which guess what genius.... means a police officer sitting in a cruiser with no lights... a) isnt visible unless you are travelling in the same direction with which he is facing... and b) really isnt safe now is it?? especially since that part of elgin mills has such a wide shoulder..... *sarc*

Thirdly usually when someone is asking a question.... u dont mock them.... but I guess u obviously know all when it comes to the law.... cuz your street racing comment.. is also not correct... might want to check that one.... "if an undercover car.... (the modified ones) rev there engine at a light and take off with you... its entrapment.... cuz guess what genius.. u woulnt race a cop car.... and if you did well... your own stupidity.... and to prove my fact... you quoted wikipedia......... enough said!!!

But keep up the great work!!!!!!
Starting as a casual, polite rant turning into this...

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Old 07-Jun-2010, 01:25 AM
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A question/rant was posted there is no need for stupidity, smartass comments or bickering. Keep it to yourself....
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
besides i guess police are allowed to break the laws.... cuz there are signs all along that part of elgin mills that say no parking.... but I guess he was idling.... so he was "stopped" not parked... but then I guess he was then violating the idle law... but again its ok *wink* they have their own rules my mistake
Does York Region even have an anti-idling bylaw? If so, I'd bet that it is like Toronto's anti-idling bylaw where the bylaw wording specifically exempts cops and other emergency services from idling time limits.
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
Lol... talk about a pylon to the extreme!!!! First off glad you know the area lol... but the sign by Markham fair grounds is not the sign w/mccowan now is it??? that would be the east side of mccowan heading w/b the speed limit sign on the w/sd of mccowan... you know e/kennedy..... just want to make sure we are clear is a little difficult to see....
Pylon? Or pile-on? Not sure what you're trying to say. If the latter, no it's not and sometimes people are way too sensitive.

OP states that the lights came on just after she passed the fairgrounds. The speed limit sign shown in the google streetview link is located immediately east of the fairgrounds facing westbound traffic just before it reaches the fairgrounds. What are you seeing?

Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
Secondly.. since we are gonna play smartass.... I think its comical but maybe you havent been in that area in a while bet kennedy & mccowan on elgin mills there are no street lights... which guess what genius.... means a police officer sitting in a cruiser with no lights... a) isnt visible unless you are travelling in the same direction with which he is facing... and b) really isnt safe now is it?? especially since that part of elgin mills has such a wide shoulder..... *sarc*
The OP said she didn't see the cop until it appeared behind her with the lights on, just after passing the fairgrounds.

Genius? Careful now. Not visible? Maybe not, or maybe just not easily visible depending on where the cop was parked. Not safe? Maybe, depending on where the cop was doing radar from, or if you're driving without headlights on.

This is where I get to use the word "pylon". Go back to the google street view link I gave and move west along Elgin Mills. Look for the driveway with the pylons on the right. Maybe the cop was sitting right there in the driveway and not on the side of the road? Maybe the next driveway into the fairgrounds instead? The next one after that?

Any of those places would let the cop most easily check the speed of both westbound and eastbound traffic. Either way the cop would be well off the road. It doesn't take any special genius to see that.

Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
Thirdly usually when someone is asking a question.... u dont mock them.... but I guess u obviously know all when it comes to the law.... cuz your street racing comment.. is also not correct... might want to check that one.... "if an undercover car.... (the modified ones) rev there engine at a light and take off with you... its entrapment.... cuz guess what genius.. u woulnt race a cop car.... and if you did well... your own stupidity.... and to prove my fact... you quoted wikipedia......... enough said!!!
It wasn't much of a mock. More like a ribbing.

Your "if an undercover car.... (the modified ones) rev there engine at a light and take off with you... its entrapment" comment is incorrect. The cop isn't pressing your gas pedal for you so the cop isn't coercing you into doing anything. You're there racing him of your own free will, so entrapment doesn't apply.

Wiki is a great source for simple explanations on a lot of stuff. It's a lot more readable than wading through case law.

Originally Posted by ALLLEGAL View Post
But keep up the great work!!!!!!
Sure, you too. THAT was a mock.
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Old 07-Jun-2010, 05:56 AM
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lol
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