Traffic tickets, accidents, insurance Discuss legal issues, emissions testing, illegal modifications, etc....

Screech...Scribble...Screwed

Old 02-Oct-2008, 12:06 PM
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Post Screech...Scribble...Screwed

Hey, I got booked yesterday in Oakville (just after a rain storm) outside a vacant plaza when my EL skidded slightly past a Stop Sign (even though I came to a complete stop, & there was no line & no sidewalk) on almost a bucket of gravel at a construction site. Got a 'Fail to Stop' charge with 'Disobey Stop Sign' scribbled above it like an afterthought. The usual (arbitrary) $110 but no pts.

It was as if the (female) cop was perched there and waiting for me. I tried my best to cry and drool but she wrote me up & took off. I came back a few minutes later & took good photos, to show the prosecutor (at 1st attendance) that the road was covered in streaks of gravel (my tires were also nearly worn, they went quick & will be replaced soon).

In any case, I fight EVERYTHING, but have never had a Stop Sign infraction handed to me in the past. My philosophy is that the best way to avoid having a future conviction entered (and your driving record harmed) is to -hopefully- have every charge withdrawn, making each subsequent one, your first.

Any useful, pertinent advice / information on how to move forward from this point with this charge? Much appreciated!

Last edited by TroubEL; 02-Oct-2008 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 12:13 PM
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a failure to stop ticket is just that... ie. driving too fast for the conditions. it's neither arbitrary nor unfair. actually that's one of the questions on the G1 License Test. that being said, I think you still have a good shot at taking it to court and maybe having it dismissed by the prosecutor just cuz of the circumstances and the fact you did stop. but the ticket is legit, and the afterthought 'scribbling down' is a way for the officer to note for the prosecutor that you were actually gonna roll through the stop sign until you saw the cop and jammed your brakes (and hence skid). you really had no intentions of stopping till you saw the cop, did you?
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 12:38 PM
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Hi, thanks, but, of course I would have (had I seen it earlier). I am not in the habit of running Stop Signs (even while turning right in a deserted parking lot). In fact, I was in the left (of 2 lanes) & visibility was obstructed by a large vehicle on my right. I just slammed harder & caused a screech when I rolled a few feet on the gravel, and -instinctively- looked right and THEN, saw the parked cruiser!

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Old 02-Oct-2008, 12:48 PM
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you kinda sound guilty to me. I would leave out that your tires are bad because it's your resopnisbility to keep your car in SAFE working order. can't afford to fix your car, then you can't afford to drive.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 12:59 PM
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Well, we'll leave the verdict to the courts.

At this point, I'm pushing the suddenly wet conditions, obstruction of visibility, and gravel spilled on the road as my main points. When I explained to the officer that I was in the process of buying new tires for my driving wheels, she threatened to cite me for driving an unsafe vehicle, so I'm fully aware of that aspect.

Thanks though... anyone else have new ideas?
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 01:35 PM
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On these boards, its "guilty until proven innocent" with everyone.
People assume on here since you got a ticket, you were 100% guilty of it and the cops are always right. Too many cop lovers on here.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 99CivicSiR View Post
On these boards, its "guilty until proven innocent" with everyone.
People assume on here since you got a ticket, you were 100% guilty of it and the cops are always right. Too many cop lovers on here.
theres to many people here like you that think because we all drive the same car we all do these things. Cops have a job, the guy got caught so the guy got caught. if he was actually innocent he wouldn't start making excuses like his tires being worn.

driver is responsible to stop...thats what defensive driving is all about, welcome to canada expect crappy road conditions, and your tires being worn is no ones fault so you cant even use that in your statement, because as the operator of that vehicle its your responsibility to maintain your vehicle.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 99CivicSiR View Post
On these boards, its "guilty until proven innocent" with everyone.
People assume on here since you got a ticket, you were 100% guilty of it and the cops are always right. Too many cop lovers on here.
this is the first time I've ever said I thought anyone was guilty on here. I've given advice to people on here who admit they were wrong and advise them on how to deal with it. I've givin advice on here to people who were prolly innocent or were prolly guilty. HOWEVER. the OP has said nothin to convince me that he's innocent. even if he is innocent of what he's charged with. He may fully have intended to stop, wait 2 seconds then go but rain or no rain. gravel, bad tires, he should take into consideration all those factors. it's not like the stop sign just appeared. I'd like to know were exactly this stop sign is. multi lane intersection with a stop sign. should have lots of time to see it coming. gravel. prolly in a constrution zone, should be slowing down anyway. sudden rain? one min its dry and the next in less time then it takes to stop the ground is wet. sure I'll buy that but then it's cuz he's on worn tires. still his fault. HE ADMITS HIS GUILT right there.

to the op: I wish you luck, I really do hope you get let off. I really do. If your innocent then I hope you don't get screwed. if your guilty I don't want my rates to go up because I drive the same kinda car as you. You want the number for a good traffic ticket agent? I've got one he's great. he helped me out when I was in the wrong to get one fine reduced and another dropped. we all make mistakes, or bad judgment calls. were human. but you really do sound like your in the wrong on this one.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TroubEL View Post
... slightly past a Stop Sign (even though I came to a complete stop, & there was no line & no sidewalk)
He said that he did make a full stop, and there wasnt a line or sidewalk, its not like he got a ticket for doing a "rolling stop".

There are cops out there that abuse their power, so just because he got a ticket doesnt mean he's guilty.
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 06:45 PM
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OP: I like your title. Very creative. lol

On topic; I can buy the sliding on gravel but you screeched your tires. If I was the cop, it'd think you did not intend to stop until you saw me.

Originally Posted by ol Dusty View Post
to the op: I wish you luck, I really do hope you get let off. I really do. If your innocent then I hope you don't get screwed. if your guilty I don't want my rates to go up because I drive the same kinda car as you. You want the number for a good traffic ticket agent? I've got one he's great. he helped me out when I was in the wrong to get one fine reduced and another dropped. we all make mistakes, or bad judgment calls. were human. but you really do sound like your in the wrong on this one.
Couldn't have said it better LOL
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Old 02-Oct-2008, 11:40 PM
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Following the feedback; taking all relevant items into consideration...
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 99CivicSiR View Post
He said that he did make a full stop, and there wasnt a line or sidewalk, its not like he got a ticket for doing a "rolling stop".

There are cops out there that abuse their power, so just because he got a ticket doesnt mean he's guilty.
negative. the ticket wasn't for failing to obey a stop sign, the ticket is failure to stop. they can give out tickets for that when the road is icy or covered with snow, or rear ending a car that slammed on the brakes, or whatever. it basically means you were driving too fast for the conditions. on your G1 written test there is a question that asks 'what's the most common reason for a skid?' and guess what... the answer is 'driving too fast for the conditions' (or something to that effect). so yeah, a cop doing his job is going to issue a ticket. personally i think you can fight it but don't expect too much. i got a ticket for turning left between the hours of 4:30 and 6 one time cuz a cube van coming in the opposite direction completely blocked my view of that sign, nevertheless, it was not considered relevant in court since there was a sign posted on both the right and left sides of the road (but I was looking left cuz I was turning left and didn't see the other sign). luckily for me, that's not a highway traffic act offense, it's a bylaw violation that doesn't carry anything but a fine. i know the circumstances are slightly different in your case, i'm just saying they told me ignorace is no excuse (not knowing i couldn't turn didn't change the fact that i DID turn). remember HTA isn't criminal, it's quasi-criminal, so they don't need to prove intent, just that the offense occured.
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 09:03 AM
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I guess what 99CivicSiR meant was simply because a ticket was issued -and I was charged with an offence- does not mean that I was convicted of an offence.

Obviously, bridging the gap between the charge for an offence; and, a conviction for an offence is for provincial court staff only.

Thanks for the input so far, looking forward to reading more...
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 09:53 AM
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If your tires are actually bad, replace them before the court date. Being in your receipt and say your tires where bad.

I can only see them lowering the charge for that though.
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by realninth View Post
If your tires are actually bad, replace them before the court date. Being in your receipt and say your tires where bad.

I can only see them lowering the charge for that though.
'

Do not tell them you know your tires were bad. That will only make you look ignorant. It is the vehicle operator's responsibility to keep the car mechanically safe.

There was gravel on the road, and you slid further than you thought you would.
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 05CivicSi View Post
There was gravel on the road, and you slid further than you thought you would.
I'd go with that story too, and if its your first offense, than they will reduce it for sure. Best of luck.

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Old 03-Oct-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bbarbulo View Post
negative. the ticket wasn't for failing to obey a stop sign, the ticket is failure to stop. they can give out tickets for that when the road is icy or covered with snow, or rear ending a car that slammed on the brakes, or whatever. it basically means you were driving too fast for the conditions. on your G1 written test there is a question that asks 'what's the most common reason for a skid?' and guess what... the answer is 'driving too fast for the conditions' (or something to that effect). so yeah, a cop doing his job is going to issue a ticket. personally i think you can fight it but don't expect too much. i got a ticket for turning left between the hours of 4:30 and 6 one time cuz a cube van coming in the opposite direction completely blocked my view of that sign, nevertheless, it was not considered relevant in court since there was a sign posted on both the right and left sides of the road (but I was looking left cuz I was turning left and didn't see the other sign). luckily for me, that's not a highway traffic act offense, it's a bylaw violation that doesn't carry anything but a fine. i know the circumstances are slightly different in your case, i'm just saying they told me ignorace is no excuse (not knowing i couldn't turn didn't change the fact that i DID turn). remember HTA isn't criminal, it's quasi-criminal, so they don't need to prove intent, just that the offense occured.
when did this happen to you cuz the same thing happened to me on king near strachn and I got 2 points and a $120 fine. everyone else that cop busted got there's dropped to a $40 fine and 2 points. I tried to explain the van blocking my view waved me through and I just hurried up and went before looking for a sign on the right side of the road and the judge gave me the full fine. even after I asked to speak to her alone to explain that the whole readon I was there was I was taking a bleeding girl in my 2 week old car to shoppers to get feminine hygene products becuase she (my girfriend at the time) had just moved the day before and couldn't find what she needed in the mess of her stuff.

it was the only fine I've ever fought that I did't get reduced or dropped. driving related or otherwise. I skateboard so I've dealt with a few tresspassing and desrtuction of private property charges and several counts of asault. never actually threw the first blow and hence never had a charge of asault stick but that's what happens when you grow up in a small town full of bored redneck cops and even more redneck kids who think fighting is a sport and like to target skateboarders and then there parents or the redneck cops who break it up decide to press charges on the guy that walked away
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 12:04 PM
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Dave you are guilty!!!!
Pay up! LOL
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 05CivicSi View Post
'

Do not tell them you know your tires were bad. That will only make you look ignorant. It is the vehicle operator's responsibility to keep the car mechanically safe.

There was gravel on the road, and you slid further than you thought you would.
He screeched his tires, that would be my case and point if I was the cop. To me, there are only two explanations for squealing your tires:

1) Didn't plan to stop -- bad weather conditions are no excuse. As it was pointed out plenty of times, he should have been driving slower.

2) Tires are bad.

Using option 2, and replacing the tires shows he owned up to his mistake. He also mentioned his tires where bad to the cop, so mind as well go with it.

It's up to him though, just my humble opinion.
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Old 03-Oct-2008, 04:09 PM
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Thumbs up

^ That's good input, thanks.

I planned to slap new rubber on Spring '09 for my front (driving) wheels (front tires have 20% tread; rears have 70%) when my rims get bolted back on for the dry/warm season. The obvious tread discrepancy is a result of replacing the rear tires (recently, with the same model) after a flat.

But I suppose there's no harm in buying new tires for the front now. It was either (i) later this fall (when the rims come off); or, (ii) early spring (when they go back on) & if now carries with it the benefit of a receipt in hand to show the prosecutor & help my case, perhaps it's the better alternative.

Anything else?

Cheers...

Last edited by TroubEL; 03-Oct-2008 at 04:19 PM.
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