Law on car lowering?
30-Mar-2004, 03:45 PM
#23
upwind gatherer? 
motti, you are right... BUT with the gov't expectation of us keeping our cars maintained, by the same token I think we should have an expectation for them to keep our roads maintained.
until this is the case, I do not see how they can tell us how to treat our personal property. like michigan, they say... we don't give a flying **** about our roads, and we don't give a flying **** about your car. you can drive any heap you want - it's in YOUR interest that it's safe. there are no inspections for safety OR for emissions. they don't tell ME what to do, and I can't tell them how to keep the roads. but since Ontario does tell me what to do with my car, I expect the be able to tell them what to do with the road.
I understand the police is just trying to keep the streets safe, but they are going about it the wrong way.
Lets say some of the show cars in this club can't even climb a driveway... how the hell are they gonna street race??? Don't target those cars. So they have clear corner lamps or white turn signals... leave them be. They're too worried about scraping their body kit to pose any danger to anyone. Why don't you get the old ladies off the streets who have medical conditions or who drive 40 km/h in a 60. I get so pissed when I see that I get the worst urge for road rage... cuz all I wanna do is go the speed limit or an approximation thereof j/k And the road rage comes from thinking if I did that my *** would get booked for having an "improper vehicle" 
or some other crap like that. Bottom line is all we wanna do is mod our cars and NOT get harassed for it like a pile of criminals. We do our best to obey tha law, but as you so eloquently said, it's NOT laid out in hte HTA. It just gives general guidelines. Well your idea of what's acceptable is diff't from mine. Maybe I think a front plate in the windshield is displayed prominently... your officer may think otherwise. Maybe I think 3 inches of ground clearance is plenty for what SHOULD BE A PAVED ROAD. Maybe I think that the height of an SUV bumper is more dangerous than my clear corners. My clear corners never killed anyone, but I'll bet if a Hummer bumper encountered a Toyota Echo driver door, someone would end up killed (my guess is the driver of the Echo)? So should we all go and buy tanks so we can feel safe against reckless middle aged women piloting 3 ton steel + glass behemoths?
motti, you are right... BUT with the gov't expectation of us keeping our cars maintained, by the same token I think we should have an expectation for them to keep our roads maintained.
until this is the case, I do not see how they can tell us how to treat our personal property. like michigan, they say... we don't give a flying **** about our roads, and we don't give a flying **** about your car. you can drive any heap you want - it's in YOUR interest that it's safe. there are no inspections for safety OR for emissions. they don't tell ME what to do, and I can't tell them how to keep the roads. but since Ontario does tell me what to do with my car, I expect the be able to tell them what to do with the road.
I understand the police is just trying to keep the streets safe, but they are going about it the wrong way.Lets say some of the show cars in this club can't even climb a driveway... how the hell are they gonna street race??? Don't target those cars. So they have clear corner lamps or white turn signals... leave them be. They're too worried about scraping their body kit to pose any danger to anyone. Why don't you get the old ladies off the streets who have medical conditions or who drive 40 km/h in a 60. I get so pissed when I see that I get the worst urge for road rage... cuz all I wanna do is go the speed limit or an approximation thereof
j/k And the road rage comes from thinking if I did that my *** would get booked for having an "improper vehicle" or some other crap like that. Bottom line is all we wanna do is mod our cars and NOT get harassed for it like a pile of criminals. We do our best to obey tha law, but as you so eloquently said, it's NOT laid out in hte HTA. It just gives general guidelines. Well your idea of what's acceptable is diff't from mine. Maybe I think a front plate in the windshield is displayed prominently... your officer may think otherwise. Maybe I think 3 inches of ground clearance is plenty for what SHOULD BE A PAVED ROAD. Maybe I think that the height of an SUV bumper is more dangerous than my clear corners. My clear corners never killed anyone, but I'll bet if a Hummer bumper encountered a Toyota Echo driver door, someone would end up killed (my guess is the driver of the Echo)? So should we all go and buy tanks so we can feel safe against reckless middle aged women piloting 3 ton steel + glass behemoths?
30-Mar-2004, 03:54 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Originally posted by gatherer
hey all I'm saying is let's not turn this into a pissing contest..... it's begining to sounmd like your both taking it personally..... just my opinion....
hey all I'm saying is let's not turn this into a pissing contest..... it's begining to sounmd like your both taking it personally..... just my opinion....
I know!
But I'm not taking it personal. I'm just stating my arguments point by point.
30-Mar-2004, 03:55 PM
#25
Originally posted by gatherer
hey all I'm saying is let's not turn this into a pissing contest..... it's begining to sounmd like your both taking it personally..... just my opinion....
hey all I'm saying is let's not turn this into a pissing contest..... it's begining to sounmd like your both taking it personally..... just my opinion....
And I don't see how police can conduct "safety inspections" on the side of the road. They are neither engineers nor mechanics. I am hard pressed to see how they qualify to even look under my hood. I pass my bi-annual emissions test and I have valid plates on the car. That's all you need to know.
30-Mar-2004, 04:03 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: on a race track
Posts: 17,846
ok ok .. point take I was reading witht he wrong tone... it's all very interesting ... (from my poijnt of view my car is at stock ride hieght and so therefoe I don't worry about these laws..but it is interesting)
30-Mar-2004, 04:10 PM
#27
gatherer, you know my car... I don't have a problem with any of these laws... though twice I got a ticket for not having a front plate displayed (can you blame me?? some provinces and some states don't even require a front plate... why does ontario have to be all gay like that?) but I paid those and accepted it as my fault. I put the plate back on after that.
30-Mar-2004, 04:13 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Originally posted by bbarbulo
upwind gatherer?
motti, you are right... BUT with the gov't expectation of us keeping our cars maintained, by the same token I think we should have an expectation for them to keep our roads maintained.
until this is the case, I do not see how they can tell us how to treat our personal property. like michigan, they say... we don't give a flying **** about our roads, and we don't give a flying **** about your car. you can drive any heap you want - it's in YOUR interest that it's safe. there are no inspections for safety OR for emissions. they don't tell ME what to do, and I can't tell them how to keep the roads. but since Ontario does tell me what to do with my car, I expect the be able to tell them what to do with the road. I understand the police is just trying to keep the streets safe, but they are going about it the wrong way.
Lets say some of the show cars in this club can't even climb a driveway... how the hell are they gonna street race??? Don't target those cars. So they have clear corner lamps or white turn signals... leave them be. They're too worried about scraping their body kit to pose any danger to anyone. Why don't you get the old ladies off the streets who have medical conditions or who drive 40 km/h in a 60. I get so pissed when I see that I get the worst urge for road rage... cuz all I wanna do is go the speed limit or an approximation thereof j/k And the road rage comes from thinking if I did that my *** would get booked for having an "improper vehicle" or some other crap like that. Bottom line is all we wanna do is mod our cars and NOT get harassed for it like a pile of criminals. We do our best to obey tha law, but as you so eloquently said, it's NOT laid out in hte HTA. It just gives general guidelines. Well your idea of what's acceptable is diff't from mine. Maybe I think a front plate in the windshield is displayed prominently... your officer may think otherwise. Maybe I think 3 inches of ground clearance is plenty for what SHOULD BE A PAVED ROAD. Maybe I think that the height of an SUV bumper is more dangerous than my clear corners. My clear corners never killed anyone, but I'll bet if a Hummer bumper encountered a Toyota Echo driver door, someone would end up killed (my guess is the driver of the Echo)? So should we all go and buy tanks so we can feel safe against reckless middle aged women piloting 3 ton steel + glass behemoths?
upwind gatherer?
motti, you are right... BUT with the gov't expectation of us keeping our cars maintained, by the same token I think we should have an expectation for them to keep our roads maintained.
until this is the case, I do not see how they can tell us how to treat our personal property. like michigan, they say... we don't give a flying **** about our roads, and we don't give a flying **** about your car. you can drive any heap you want - it's in YOUR interest that it's safe. there are no inspections for safety OR for emissions. they don't tell ME what to do, and I can't tell them how to keep the roads. but since Ontario does tell me what to do with my car, I expect the be able to tell them what to do with the road.
I understand the police is just trying to keep the streets safe, but they are going about it the wrong way.Lets say some of the show cars in this club can't even climb a driveway... how the hell are they gonna street race??? Don't target those cars. So they have clear corner lamps or white turn signals... leave them be. They're too worried about scraping their body kit to pose any danger to anyone. Why don't you get the old ladies off the streets who have medical conditions or who drive 40 km/h in a 60. I get so pissed when I see that I get the worst urge for road rage... cuz all I wanna do is go the speed limit or an approximation thereof
j/k And the road rage comes from thinking if I did that my *** would get booked for having an "improper vehicle" or some other crap like that. Bottom line is all we wanna do is mod our cars and NOT get harassed for it like a pile of criminals. We do our best to obey tha law, but as you so eloquently said, it's NOT laid out in hte HTA. It just gives general guidelines. Well your idea of what's acceptable is diff't from mine. Maybe I think a front plate in the windshield is displayed prominently... your officer may think otherwise. Maybe I think 3 inches of ground clearance is plenty for what SHOULD BE A PAVED ROAD. Maybe I think that the height of an SUV bumper is more dangerous than my clear corners. My clear corners never killed anyone, but I'll bet if a Hummer bumper encountered a Toyota Echo driver door, someone would end up killed (my guess is the driver of the Echo)? So should we all go and buy tanks so we can feel safe against reckless middle aged women piloting 3 ton steel + glass behemoths?
Define "maintained". Our climate conditions are real hard on roads. I don't think it's realistic to expect ideal road conditions anywhere in our climate zone. Even brand new roads will be affected within a year or two of being built, and it's unrealistic to expect that "perfect" surface to remain perfect for more than a season. The only answer would be to repave every couple of years, and that's not financially viable.
Aside from the potholes that do eventually get filled in each spring, our roads are generally ok. A lot of people living in the country have to live with a lot worse all year round.
Somewhere along the way, people need to decide whether they want a full show car, or a car that is viable for street use in the environent in which we live. Our environment includes annual frost heaves, and our cars have to be able to operate with that reality in mind.
You say we should get the old ladies with medical conditions who do only 40 in a 60 off the road. But if your car can't go faster than 40 km in a 60 because you're worried about road surface irregularities, then your presence on teeh road is just as much an issue as theold ladies you speak off, and you too should be taken off the road because your car clearly is not suitable for operating on our roads.
Clear corners by themselves aren't dangerous, but if your blinking clear turn signal isn't easily visible in daylight, then you are creating just as potentially dangerous a situation as if you don't bother to signal your turns at all. First of all, clear blinkers simply are not as visible as amber or red blinkers, and second, we are conditioned to look for amber or red blinkers to indicate turns and/or braking, not clear or blue or green. You create a dangerous situation both for yourself and for others this way.
Your plate in the front window may look cool to you, but I see it as a projectile or potential lobotomy instrument for you or your passenger should you become involved in a collision. Three inches of ground clearance means virtually no suspension travel to absorb bumps on even a well-maintained road, let alone what the three inches would become should you carry a passenger. Again, show cars are fine, but a car also has to be suitable for use on the roads we we have without holding up other traffic in the process.
The SUV bumper argument is starting to be addressed with lower ride heights and blocker bars on SUVs, but lowering your car yet another 3 inches sort of defeats that, doesn't it?
30-Mar-2004, 04:18 PM
#30
yeah well the same weather conditions are hard on our cars and cause hella rust, and we're required to maintain our floorpan perforation free, so I expect the roads to be perforation free too! 
haha
haha
30-Mar-2004, 04:23 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Originally posted by bbarbulo
yeah well the same weather conditions are hard on our cars and cause hella rust, and we're required to maintain our floorpan perforation free, so I expect the roads to be perforation free too! haha
yeah well the same weather conditions are hard on our cars and cause hella rust, and we're required to maintain our floorpan perforation free, so I expect the roads to be perforation free too!
haha
Anything is possible given enough tax dollars or licensing fees.
Have you seen what the cost is to rehabilitate a km of multilane roadway?
Are you ready to double gas taxes and drivers/vehicle licensing fees?
That's about what it would cost to maintain perfectly smooth roads. Oh yes, it would also require constant construction, and we all know how smooth roads are while they're under construction.
carefull what you ask for.... you might just get it.
30-Mar-2004, 04:35 PM
#32
Originally posted by motti
1
You say we should get the old ladies with medical conditions who do only 40 in a 60 off the road. But if your car can't go faster than 40 km in a 60 because you're worried about road surface irregularities, then your presence on teeh road is just as much an issue as theold ladies you speak off, and you too should be taken off the road because your car clearly is not suitable for operating on our roads.
2
Clear corners by themselves aren't dangerous, but if your blinking clear turn signal isn't easily visible in daylight, then you are creating just as potentially dangerous a situation as if you don't bother to signal your turns at all. First of all, clear blinkers simply are not as visible as amber or red blinkers, and second, we are conditioned to look for amber or red blinkers to indicate turns and/or braking, not clear or blue or green. You create a dangerous situation both for yourself and for others this way.
3
Your plate in the front window may look cool to you, but I see it as a projectile or potential lobotomy instrument for you or your passenger should you become involved in a collision. Three inches of ground clearance means virtually no suspension travel to absorb bumps on even a well-maintained road, let alone what the three inches would become should you carry a passenger. Again, show cars are fine, but a car also has to be suitable for use on the roads we we have without holding up other traffic in the process.
4
The SUV bumper argument is starting to be addressed with lower ride heights and blocker bars on SUVs, but lowering your car yet another 3 inches sort of defeats that, doesn't it?
1
You say we should get the old ladies with medical conditions who do only 40 in a 60 off the road. But if your car can't go faster than 40 km in a 60 because you're worried about road surface irregularities, then your presence on teeh road is just as much an issue as theold ladies you speak off, and you too should be taken off the road because your car clearly is not suitable for operating on our roads.
2
Clear corners by themselves aren't dangerous, but if your blinking clear turn signal isn't easily visible in daylight, then you are creating just as potentially dangerous a situation as if you don't bother to signal your turns at all. First of all, clear blinkers simply are not as visible as amber or red blinkers, and second, we are conditioned to look for amber or red blinkers to indicate turns and/or braking, not clear or blue or green. You create a dangerous situation both for yourself and for others this way.
3
Your plate in the front window may look cool to you, but I see it as a projectile or potential lobotomy instrument for you or your passenger should you become involved in a collision. Three inches of ground clearance means virtually no suspension travel to absorb bumps on even a well-maintained road, let alone what the three inches would become should you carry a passenger. Again, show cars are fine, but a car also has to be suitable for use on the roads we we have without holding up other traffic in the process.
4
The SUV bumper argument is starting to be addressed with lower ride heights and blocker bars on SUVs, but lowering your car yet another 3 inches sort of defeats that, doesn't it?
1
Absolutely agree!! If you can't maintain your speed get off the road. But then entering and coming out of driveways and whatnot, no one has a reasonable expectation that I'll make that turn doing the full speed limit. It's understood I'll slow down, that's why I have signals and I use them. How much I'll slow down should be at my discression based on whether there are pedestrians. If someone is walking on the sidewalk, I'll stop and the person behind me should expect so much.
2
There is no stipulation in the HTA for YELLOW front turn signals. Front directional signals are white or amber... well simply because those are the only two colors allowed on the front of a vehicle... but there is nothing to specify the color required. I agree blue or green is NOT to be found on the front of a vehicle. As for visibility, like you said, we live in a climate... in the winter during rush hour traffic, there is a lot of glare when the sun sets very early on and the roads are white from snow or wet. I'm sure there are MANY times when the signals are not visible regardless of color. Let's not make weather an issue here, under MOST circumstances the white blinking light is just as visible as yellow. Again I don't care, I run special euro bulbs that appear clear by produce an amber light - Osram Diadem is what they are called if you wanna check them out.
3
Haha... I didn't say it was in the front windshiled. It was no where to be found... I left it a home since I had no intentions of having a front plate. They look nasty to me, and since some provinces don't require it, I figured, why should I be penalised for living in Ontario
LOL4
My modified suspension has far higher capibility to avoid collision, which is my main goal. Once I hit something I'm fuct anyways. I'll prolly never drive again thanks to our insurance system. I can tell you of several occasions where I avoided accidents with my sticky massive tires and my upgraded brakes and modified suspension where a lesser car would have been towed from the scene. But you get the point... I'm about NOT having an accident rather than trying to build a wall of steel in crash beams and a blanket of airbags
Modern "safety" features make me sick to my stomach.
30-Mar-2004, 04:43 PM
#33
Originally posted by motti
Anything is possible given enough tax dollars or licensing fees.
Have you seen what the cost is to rehabilitate a km of multilane roadway?
Are you ready to double gas taxes and drivers/vehicle licensing fees?
That's about what it would cost to maintain perfectly smooth roads. Oh yes, it would also require constant construction, and we all know how smooth roads are while they're under construction.
carefull what you ask for.... you might just get it.
Anything is possible given enough tax dollars or licensing fees.
Have you seen what the cost is to rehabilitate a km of multilane roadway?
Are you ready to double gas taxes and drivers/vehicle licensing fees?
That's about what it would cost to maintain perfectly smooth roads. Oh yes, it would also require constant construction, and we all know how smooth roads are while they're under construction.
carefull what you ask for.... you might just get it.
LOL *end of argument* I win
haha j/k, no one wins... you make some excellent points but if you can't make the roads smooth then expect us to slow down. I refuse to drive a Baja truck
In Windsor, rail road crossings are a HUGE problem esp, but they way I see it I'm by law required to slow down to 30 to cross it, so I may as well stop before it. Buses do it
31-Mar-2004, 01:15 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 18,367
One of the reason why I go back to stock amber corner lights was because poor visibility during day time. I know I lights are blinking, but that doesn't mean people in front or behind me can see it. Many times during the time while I was waiting for a parking space at the mall, I singaled but people can't see. And after a while, they see white blinking lights. And we all know the rules of parking lot, you signal, then the spot is yours. In this case, if the other party didn't notice and takes the spot cause he couldn't see mine, who's fault it was? I would think he will have a stronger argument cause 9 out of 10 people can't see white blinking lights.
I never got a ticket for it. I have signaled while following police cars, been in front of a police car, or coming onto a police car in just about most places in GTA and never got hassled. But I am not driving alone, I drive pass by about 20,000 cars a day on the road and I need to make sure that they can see my signal to avoid accident, or unwanted drama in a parking lot fighting over a space.
As for modding the car, I am all for upgrading and do things that can make the car safer for the car itself, the driver, and other cars on the road. Upgrading power is another issue. Having an upgraded air filter that can filter cleaner air, using better break calipers and pads to shorter breaking distance, using better tires than OEM Firestone ones... so on and so forth.
The only difference between cars are their components, that's how I see it. You upgrade a Civic's component to the same as a STI and you will probably end up with about the same cost, more or less. But while you do so, you must make sure that all components work well together in a harmony state to achieve the optimal vehicle balance. That's why I am all for upgrading safety than power first.
Because you are driving with other cars on the road, therefore, we all need to be considerate to others, while we hope we can get the same treatment in return.
I never got a ticket for it. I have signaled while following police cars, been in front of a police car, or coming onto a police car in just about most places in GTA and never got hassled. But I am not driving alone, I drive pass by about 20,000 cars a day on the road and I need to make sure that they can see my signal to avoid accident, or unwanted drama in a parking lot fighting over a space.
As for modding the car, I am all for upgrading and do things that can make the car safer for the car itself, the driver, and other cars on the road. Upgrading power is another issue. Having an upgraded air filter that can filter cleaner air, using better break calipers and pads to shorter breaking distance, using better tires than OEM Firestone ones... so on and so forth.
The only difference between cars are their components, that's how I see it. You upgrade a Civic's component to the same as a STI and you will probably end up with about the same cost, more or less. But while you do so, you must make sure that all components work well together in a harmony state to achieve the optimal vehicle balance. That's why I am all for upgrading safety than power first.
Because you are driving with other cars on the road, therefore, we all need to be considerate to others, while we hope we can get the same treatment in return.
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