"Insurance calls the shots"
12-Jul-2003, 08:30 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 12,906
hey i got a question.... in relation to that article... say you get in an accident... wiht a modded car... and insurance says we're not giving anything cause your car is lowered.... are you allowed to tell them you want all your insurance payments back since your not getting covered really??
12-Jul-2003, 09:22 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,508
arrg...stupid insurance companys rape us in the first place now this... Beleive it or not, a buddy of mine had his insurance canceled because his Neon has Altezzas...complete stock car with Fu**** Altezzazs, they said it was modifyed and can no longer insure him... **** pisses me off
12-Jul-2003, 09:39 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: REDLINE
Posts: 2,759
this is ******* bullshit!!
how does IMPROVING the performance (handling) of your vehicle cause insurance companies to not want to cover you?? there is absolutely NO logic behind this whatsoever.
these policies are all created by ******** who sit behind a desk and get a phone call from the cops telling him that any car that has been modified will participate in illegal street racing.
i want hard facts. not "word of mouth" bullshit from cops saying that modified cars are "high risk". where are the statistics??? please show me that a lowered civic is more risk than some 80 year old senior behind a 20 foot long cadillac who can barely see over the dash????
what about SUV drivers?? i've run into my fair share of reckless idiots in SUVs who think they are invincible. they should start pulling coverage on those guys too
how does IMPROVING the performance (handling) of your vehicle cause insurance companies to not want to cover you?? there is absolutely NO logic behind this whatsoever.
these policies are all created by ******** who sit behind a desk and get a phone call from the cops telling him that any car that has been modified will participate in illegal street racing.
i want hard facts. not "word of mouth" bullshit from cops saying that modified cars are "high risk". where are the statistics??? please show me that a lowered civic is more risk than some 80 year old senior behind a 20 foot long cadillac who can barely see over the dash????
what about SUV drivers?? i've run into my fair share of reckless idiots in SUVs who think they are invincible. they should start pulling coverage on those guys too
12-Jul-2003, 09:45 PM
#7
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: REDLINE
Posts: 2,759
figures the insurance company in the article is STATE FARM 
i had my insurance with those ******* awhile ago but i got enough **** from them so i cancelled. wont ever be going back either, they wont see another cent from me EVER....bunch of scammers
i had my insurance with those ******* awhile ago but i got enough **** from them so i cancelled. wont ever be going back either, they wont see another cent from me EVER....bunch of scammers
12-Jul-2003, 09:53 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,710
That really pisses me off..., the insurance company are taking the fun out of customizing cars not just cops. How can improving your car's handling make the car more dangerous, I guess Porches, Ferraris, and Corvettes, must be a dangerous car to drive aswell, since they're faster and handles better than Civics.
13-Jul-2003, 02:25 AM
#10
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: brampton
Posts: 1,033
what about coil oers so i can hae it at stock hieght for eeryday driing and lower it for shows?....the company says "no, cause they are stiffer whcih will improve your cars performance"....what a big load of **** since when is that a bad thing....and what kinda excuse is lowered cars are more aerodynamic so they can go faster....so what ....if i buy a gun i hae the POTENTIAL to do many things doesn't mean thats why i bought it...this is such bullshit....**** you police **** you insurance..you can both lick my sweaty nut sack you scamming sons of bitches
13-Jul-2003, 08:52 AM
#11
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: on a race track
Posts: 17,846
ok I'll play the devils advoate ...(but don't shoot me I think this arguement is weak from there side)
anyways why doesn't the insurance company want improved handling? most of the times because it's done wrong and isn't an improvement... (don't shoot me) reasons:
1) I am serious most of the people I have seen do stuff on the board talk about drop and only drop as the way to get a good handling car... well yes lowering your center of gravity is good but not the best thing to do to improve the handling.. most of the suspension geometry was created for stock ride hieght , you put a 3" drop on it and your way out of manufacturers specs....
2) ok so you don't have a 3" drop your still within manufacturers specs so a 2 or 1 inch drop is better .. they still won't insure me ?? why?? well it's because you haven't looked at spring rates most spring and coilover manufacturers like to stick with honda's specs of stiff in the front soft in the rear ... which creates understeer which in a fast manuvour to avoid something won't help since you'll enter the steering input while slowing down and you'll not move in that direction... what you want to do when designing the suspension is stiffer in the rear then the front for more oversteer well you want a balance between them both..
3) driver error ... yeah ok your car if you follow the first 3 steps handles better but I have see examples of people (that have been at fault) who just don't get the leave space rule... a 2 second gap will allow you time to use that better handling. However I see it on the highways ... the car lowered 3" with springs that are most likely stiff in front and soft in rear tailgating a SUV or Minivan, which they can't see past to see if there's trouble up ahead... and when trouble develops they have no time to react....
ok so insurance companies don't like to insure cars that are lowered or modified ....well a stock car handles great (I race in solo 2 where handling is most important) it's not the best and there is room for improvement but it works well enough for competeing in stock classes and for the street (since starting solo 2 I've hand to avoid a ton of idiots on the street and have done so successfully ... only time I didn't avoid something was a sheet of plastic came off a trailer and covered my windshield ... but from my racing experince I knew where I was and the options I hand I got off onto the shoulder and didn't have a problem)
ok so you still want to lower your car and not be harassed by insurance companies?
well in this country we are a high risk group to insure.. if the car is modified they will most likely be making high payouts.... if it isn't modified they will have lower risk ... which is what the insurance comapny wants...so how do we fix this issue ?? well for the next 6 years or more we are screwed.. but I'd suggest going to solo 2 and learning to control the car ... get a better driving record and then when it is all said and done if insurance companies (which keep stats on this crap) see that modified vehicles are not having as many accidents rates and there definance to modded cars will drop...
this is just my 4 cents
anyways why doesn't the insurance company want improved handling? most of the times because it's done wrong and isn't an improvement... (don't shoot me) reasons:
1) I am serious most of the people I have seen do stuff on the board talk about drop and only drop as the way to get a good handling car... well yes lowering your center of gravity is good but not the best thing to do to improve the handling.. most of the suspension geometry was created for stock ride hieght , you put a 3" drop on it and your way out of manufacturers specs....
2) ok so you don't have a 3" drop your still within manufacturers specs so a 2 or 1 inch drop is better .. they still won't insure me ?? why?? well it's because you haven't looked at spring rates most spring and coilover manufacturers like to stick with honda's specs of stiff in the front soft in the rear ... which creates understeer which in a fast manuvour to avoid something won't help since you'll enter the steering input while slowing down and you'll not move in that direction... what you want to do when designing the suspension is stiffer in the rear then the front for more oversteer well you want a balance between them both..
3) driver error ... yeah ok your car if you follow the first 3 steps handles better but I have see examples of people (that have been at fault) who just don't get the leave space rule... a 2 second gap will allow you time to use that better handling. However I see it on the highways ... the car lowered 3" with springs that are most likely stiff in front and soft in rear tailgating a SUV or Minivan, which they can't see past to see if there's trouble up ahead... and when trouble develops they have no time to react....
ok so insurance companies don't like to insure cars that are lowered or modified ....well a stock car handles great (I race in solo 2 where handling is most important) it's not the best and there is room for improvement but it works well enough for competeing in stock classes and for the street (since starting solo 2 I've hand to avoid a ton of idiots on the street and have done so successfully ... only time I didn't avoid something was a sheet of plastic came off a trailer and covered my windshield ... but from my racing experince I knew where I was and the options I hand I got off onto the shoulder and didn't have a problem)
ok so you still want to lower your car and not be harassed by insurance companies?
well in this country we are a high risk group to insure.. if the car is modified they will most likely be making high payouts.... if it isn't modified they will have lower risk ... which is what the insurance comapny wants...so how do we fix this issue ?? well for the next 6 years or more we are screwed.. but I'd suggest going to solo 2 and learning to control the car ... get a better driving record and then when it is all said and done if insurance companies (which keep stats on this crap) see that modified vehicles are not having as many accidents rates and there definance to modded cars will drop...
this is just my 4 cents
13-Jul-2003, 10:00 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3
I wrote that article / letter and am amazed at the amount of discussion (here and on other boards) it is raising. In the article I make reference to an acquaintance who had his write-off not covered. That was actually a member of the TCC. I've been out to a couple of the TCC meets at Kennedy Commons the last couple of weeks with my son and his Integra. I'll probably be out again this week if you want to see the "offending" vehicle. 
13-Jul-2003, 12:09 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 389
Originally posted by gatherer
ok I'll play the devils advoate ...(but don't shoot me I think this arguement is weak from there side)
anyways why doesn't the insurance company want improved handling? most of the times because it's done wrong and isn't an improvement... (don't shoot me) reasons:
1) I am serious most of the people I have seen do stuff on the board talk about drop and only drop as the way to get a good handling car... well yes lowering your center of gravity is good but not the best thing to do to improve the handling.. most of the suspension geometry was created for stock ride hieght , you put a 3" drop on it and your way out of manufacturers specs....
2) ok so you don't have a 3" drop your still within manufacturers specs so a 2 or 1 inch drop is better .. they still won't insure me ?? why?? well it's because you haven't looked at spring rates most spring and coilover manufacturers like to stick with honda's specs of stiff in the front soft in the rear ... which creates understeer which in a fast manuvour to avoid something won't help since you'll enter the steering input while slowing down and you'll not move in that direction... what you want to do when designing the suspension is stiffer in the rear then the front for more oversteer well you want a balance between them both..
3) driver error ... yeah ok your car if you follow the first 3 steps handles better but I have see examples of people (that have been at fault) who just don't get the leave space rule... a 2 second gap will allow you time to use that better handling. However I see it on the highways ... the car lowered 3" with springs that are most likely stiff in front and soft in rear tailgating a SUV or Minivan, which they can't see past to see if there's trouble up ahead... and when trouble develops they have no time to react....
ok so insurance companies don't like to insure cars that are lowered or modified ....well a stock car handles great (I race in solo 2 where handling is most important) it's not the best and there is room for improvement but it works well enough for competeing in stock classes and for the street (since starting solo 2 I've hand to avoid a ton of idiots on the street and have done so successfully ... only time I didn't avoid something was a sheet of plastic came off a trailer and covered my windshield ... but from my racing experince I knew where I was and the options I hand I got off onto the shoulder and didn't have a problem)
ok so you still want to lower your car and not be harassed by insurance companies?
well in this country we are a high risk group to insure.. if the car is modified they will most likely be making high payouts.... if it isn't modified they will have lower risk ... which is what the insurance comapny wants...so how do we fix this issue ?? well for the next 6 years or more we are screwed.. but I'd suggest going to solo 2 and learning to control the car ... get a better driving record and then when it is all said and done if insurance companies (which keep stats on this crap) see that modified vehicles are not having as many accidents rates and there definance to modded cars will drop...
this is just my 4 cents
ok I'll play the devils advoate ...(but don't shoot me I think this arguement is weak from there side)
anyways why doesn't the insurance company want improved handling? most of the times because it's done wrong and isn't an improvement... (don't shoot me) reasons:
1) I am serious most of the people I have seen do stuff on the board talk about drop and only drop as the way to get a good handling car... well yes lowering your center of gravity is good but not the best thing to do to improve the handling.. most of the suspension geometry was created for stock ride hieght , you put a 3" drop on it and your way out of manufacturers specs....
2) ok so you don't have a 3" drop your still within manufacturers specs so a 2 or 1 inch drop is better .. they still won't insure me ?? why?? well it's because you haven't looked at spring rates most spring and coilover manufacturers like to stick with honda's specs of stiff in the front soft in the rear ... which creates understeer which in a fast manuvour to avoid something won't help since you'll enter the steering input while slowing down and you'll not move in that direction... what you want to do when designing the suspension is stiffer in the rear then the front for more oversteer well you want a balance between them both..
3) driver error ... yeah ok your car if you follow the first 3 steps handles better but I have see examples of people (that have been at fault) who just don't get the leave space rule... a 2 second gap will allow you time to use that better handling. However I see it on the highways ... the car lowered 3" with springs that are most likely stiff in front and soft in rear tailgating a SUV or Minivan, which they can't see past to see if there's trouble up ahead... and when trouble develops they have no time to react....
ok so insurance companies don't like to insure cars that are lowered or modified ....well a stock car handles great (I race in solo 2 where handling is most important) it's not the best and there is room for improvement but it works well enough for competeing in stock classes and for the street (since starting solo 2 I've hand to avoid a ton of idiots on the street and have done so successfully ... only time I didn't avoid something was a sheet of plastic came off a trailer and covered my windshield ... but from my racing experince I knew where I was and the options I hand I got off onto the shoulder and didn't have a problem)
ok so you still want to lower your car and not be harassed by insurance companies?
well in this country we are a high risk group to insure.. if the car is modified they will most likely be making high payouts.... if it isn't modified they will have lower risk ... which is what the insurance comapny wants...so how do we fix this issue ?? well for the next 6 years or more we are screwed.. but I'd suggest going to solo 2 and learning to control the car ... get a better driving record and then when it is all said and done if insurance companies (which keep stats on this crap) see that modified vehicles are not having as many accidents rates and there definance to modded cars will drop...
this is just my 4 cents
13-Jul-2003, 05:30 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: 43° 41' N 79° 38' W
Posts: 9,277
I know that guy..
He's good friends with 90EFHB and me..
The civic owner he is talking about in the article is PULOVR..
Like it or not we are all in the same boat.
His car in nice for a Sunfire..
He's good friends with 90EFHB and me..
The civic owner he is talking about in the article is PULOVR..
Like it or not we are all in the same boat.
His car in nice for a Sunfire..
14-Jul-2003, 12:58 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: REDLINE
Posts: 2,759
Originally posted by Insuranceman
show the insurance company the car BEFORE you insure it,
show the insurance company the car BEFORE you insure it,
1) jack your premiums thru the roof (ie double at least) or
2) cancel your coverage out right
14-Jul-2003, 07:19 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 389
Originally posted by SiR-Racer
right, and when you show them your car is modified they will either:
1) jack your premiums thru the roof (ie double at least) or
2) cancel your coverage out right
right, and when you show them your car is modified they will either:
1) jack your premiums thru the roof (ie double at least) or
2) cancel your coverage out right
14-Jul-2003, 12:56 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: REDLINE
Posts: 2,759
Originally posted by Insuranceman
Well then don't modifiy it .... why should an insurance company cover a car thats modified if you won't tell them its modified .... They assume they are covering a stock vehicle so when yo do have a claim, and they find out its not stock, they deny it because YOU did not tell them, which yo are obligated to do when you fill out an application .... Its called Utmost good faith ....
Well then don't modifiy it .... why should an insurance company cover a car thats modified if you won't tell them its modified .... They assume they are covering a stock vehicle so when yo do have a claim, and they find out its not stock, they deny it because YOU did not tell them, which yo are obligated to do when you fill out an application .... Its called Utmost good faith ....
you're missing the point!
the point is that it should not matter if you put something like an exhaust or intake on your car. it should have no bearing on your risk factor.
sure if you throw in a turbo and NOS and are making twice as much power as your car was in stock form then it should matter. but just a little mod that barely affects performance should not cause premiums to double or coverages to be cancelled!
14-Jul-2003, 01:34 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 389
Originally posted by SiR-Racer
you're missing the point!
the point is that it should not matter if you put something like an exhaust or intake on your car. it should have no bearing on your risk factor.
sure if you throw in a turbo and NOS and are making twice as much power as your car was in stock form then it should matter. but just a little mod that barely affects performance should not cause premiums to double or coverages to be cancelled!
you're missing the point!
the point is that it should not matter if you put something like an exhaust or intake on your car. it should have no bearing on your risk factor.
sure if you throw in a turbo and NOS and are making twice as much power as your car was in stock form then it should matter. but just a little mod that barely affects performance should not cause premiums to double or coverages to be cancelled!
