SiR-Racer

PULOVER>> Please dont listen to THEREALBENZO. First off, they CANNOT chang the damn offense on you in court. This is not something that is amendable. Sure they can change driver info address etc. but not the actual offense!! You cant go into court with a ticket that says you are speeding and violated such and such an act and then come out being charged with reckless driving. The charge that is on the ticket is the charge you are defending yourself against. If cop rights down wrong charge, too bad for him, it's automatically dismissed.

Blue nipple lights are legal. I know there are varying opinions on this...even from the police! I also know that a cop has told me blue is fine as long as it dont flash. If you argue your case properly in court you WILL get off. If you dont, then you might be charged because it is up to you to prove you are innocent.

I've been PM'ing TheREALBENZO for like a day straight and still cant get thru to him. Blue lights such as undercar neons, sidemarkers that dont flash and nipple lights are FINE! Blue headlights, blue turn signals, blue license plate lights are all a no-no.

SiR-Racer

btw, what offense number did the cop write down for you? 62(32)? if that's the case then u're so getting off. Just walk into court, read that section of the HTA and say that your lights do not flash at all. then walk home. done.

if they want to pull another section of the HTA out such as 62(1), then say that section refers to headlights (which you have on your car, say that are white and functioning perfectly). The common misconception is that 62(1) restricts ALL lighting on your car. This is a fallacy. If this were true then wouldnt amber turn signals in the rear be illegal? Wouldnt white reverse lights be illegal as well? Furthermore, point out that your ticket doesnt even make a reference to that section in the first place.

I know THEREALBENZO has something to say about this and you can be sure he'll respond with his own (incorrect) version.

TheRealBenzo

You're sort of half right. Whether or not an eror will be amended depends on a few different factors. It really an arbitrary situation, but you can guessimate most of the time. You'll find that within the GTA and towards Toronto they're more relaxed when it comes to this, whereas the same error may be thrown out in courts outside the main city. It comes down to common sense, if you can reasonably see why it could be ammended, it probably will be. The stipulations what what can and cannot be ammended are very ambiguous, this allows for alot fo creativity if the Justice feels it warrants the situation.
So, when you hear people say "I know a guy that said he knows a guy that said you can get off". Ask him for facts, he won't be able to provide you with any.
What i can provide you with is a partial answer, I'm sure some
di(k will disagree with me and say I'm making this all up and "He knows a guy" but this is real and this is FACT....

This is the only test for ammendments of certificates or information:

It may be if.....

(a) fails to state or states defectively anything that is requisite to charge the offence;

(b) does not negative an exception that should be negatived; or

(c) is in any way defective in substance or in form.

SiR-Racer

I agree there is no fixed rule with ammendments. HOWEVER, the actual charge is not something that can normally be ammended. BUT, if for whatever reason, the court tries to alter the charge or HTA number then you can use this to your advantage. You can say that you have spent all your time preparing a defense for the charge written on your ticket and the section of HTA you are violating. If the cop suddenly wishes to change this on you, you can plea your case and say that you cannot possibly be expected to adequately defend yourself against this "new" charge that has come out of the blue.

TheRealBenzo

SiR-Racer: You're throwing out your personal feelings and that's it. It may be amended, in fact if this is within the GTA in all likelihood it WILL be amended. So, while you're giving your opinions I'm giving fact because when this guy steps into court all your anecdotes are useless.

PULOVR: Feel free to call me on my info. POA section 34, this will allow them to shift the focus on you very quickly leaving you with no recourse.

SiR-Racer

if you are saying they can change the charge on you then you are absolutely wrong. the ONLY way they can change the HTA number on your ticket is if the officer described the correct violation on your ticket but accidentily wrote down the wrong HTA number that doesnt correlate to his written description.

PULOVER> if the ticket says "improper flashing blue lights" or something similar to that, they cannot suddenly change it to nail you for your non-flashing lights.

edit>> let me rephrase what i said earlier in my previous post. THEREALBENZO is right in that if your ticket states a charge on it and for some reason the HTA number is incorrect then the cop can clarify this error at the start of your trial and in all likelyhood the ticket will be ammended for the correct HTA number. You cannot get off by JUST having the HTA number wrong. HOWEVER, as in your case, the cop TOLD you that you have flashing blue lights and he wrote down that charge and the HTA number corresponding to that violation. This is where you get off simply because your blue lights dont flash.

TheRealBenzo

If you believe I’m wrong why not back up your opinions with proof. I've produced a section within the POA that directly contradicts your claims. I'm saying the probability it will be amended it a real one. You feel otherwise I guess.
You should also know that this information has been checked and rechecked with both a GTA Crown attorney, and a Justice of the peace for the same region. Their information was identical and also directly disagreed with you SiR-Racer.

Now, chose not to believe me but these two men are THE ONES THAT MAKE THE DECISION. It's your call.

SiR-Racer

so you're telling me you have proof that the court can change the actual charge on a ticket? Where can i find the POA?

TheRealBenzo

"Where can i find the POA?"

If you're asking me this, you've pretty much shot all credibility you had to begin with. This is a key point in deciding whether or not a certificate can be amended, what have you been using so far?

SiR-Racer

i'm going by past experience and past experiences of others.

if anything on a ticket can be ammended answer me this. how are you expected to defend yourself when the actual charge you are being charged with can be changed at any given moment? what's the point of a ticket then? why dont they just tell you to show up in court a certain day and that they'll let u know what you're being charged with on that day?

edit>> tell me what POA stands for. and dont tell me it's Power of Attorney.

TheRealBenzo

I don't mean to come down on you but for someone that is "going by past experience and past experiences of others. " You sure held yourself out as an authority.

I can tell you I'm not a lawyer and I won't be for at least 3 more years, but I check facts before stating my opinion. I also rely on the opinions of QUALIFIED sources. The questions you've asked me can't be fully explained with one post, these are issues that require a base knowledge of the system that you don't have, this isn't a bad thing, it's just the truth.
My advice, if this interests you as much as I think it does (my PM box as evidence) GO TO SCHOOL. Learn about all of the issues before you comment on a portion of them, you'll find this will help link everything together.

SiR-Racer

well the bottom line is u're right about me not having gone to law school. but my information is from people who have talked to lawyers as well. when i say experience, i mean from those who have been in similiar situations and sought advice from lawyers. this is not all that much different than learning from a book IMO.

and honestly, reading things straight out a book isnt all that it's cut out to be. case in point, how you misinterpreted SEVERAL sections of the HTA in our discussion.

what i've said in my posts still holds true. if someone gets a ticket for flashing blue lights and their lights dont flash, they wont be charged. just because there is a law that states you can ammend certain parts of a ticket at your discretion does not change this point. so in this, you were wrong.

TheRealBenzo

"this is not all that much different than learning from a book IMO"

Well for PULOVER it will make a world of difference if the officer asks to have it amended under section 34. You'll need the "book" then won't you?

SiR-Racer

that's different. that's called referencing from the law.

u still have not answered my question, what is the POA?

TheRealBenzo

"what i've said in my posts still holds true. if someone gets a ticket for flashing blue lights and their lights dont flash, they wont be charged. just because there is a law that states you can ammend certain parts of a ticket at your discretion does not change this point. so in this, you were wrong."

Hah! You're still going! How can you possibly determine what is and what is not amendable if you HAVEN"T TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THE RULES???????

SiR-Racer

because i dont have to!! they cannot ammend the ticket to a law that does not exist!!

now tell me what this POA is

TheRealBenzo

"u still have not answered my question, what is the POA?"

Okay this blows my mind, how can you say that I am wrong without EVER looking at the ONE document that has the answer? You're just pulling this stuff out of nowhere, you have no idea how or why things are amended, you're relying on "a guy you talked to" instead of actual facts. This is ridiculous! How can you say with such conviction that you know the answer when you have no idea where to look?

SiR-Racer

ok so i finally found what POA is. but you konw what? it doesnt matter because you cannot ammend a certificate to a law that does not exist! that is why i have not bothered to "research" this matter. listen, good for you for finding this. but it doesnt matter because the ticket cant be ammended to something that will hold in court since no offense exists for non-flashing blue lights.

TheRealBenzo

Man?!?! No, okay NO. Okay, I'll give you a hint; the A is for 'act'. I don't know where you were going with the power of attorney thing.

Do this: Go learn, read (You'll need books though), and enrol in school. Don't believe anything I say, go find out what's what and when you come back we can ride bikes and trade baseball cards, okay?

SiR-Racer

lol...chill i'm reading this POA now :working: