noAC

i'll try and keep this short.
went to court to pled not guilty to an loud muffler charge.
i lost.
i had this letter from Vibrant mufflers (cause my muffler is a Vibrant) saying that their products aren't illegal. the court wouldn't allow it as evidence because the author was not present.
*****...there went my best peice of evidence.
the court was big on the "excessive" noise part in the highway traffic act. i needed to prove that my muffler was not making excessive noise, but was not prepared for that.
now i kind of wish i would have pleded guilty with an excuse, saying something like "i didn't think it was too loud because those damn harley's are louder than me, and it's my first offense and i promise to get it changed". some bullshite like that anyway.
i was also thinking afterward that i should have said this while the cop was on the stand, "do all peel region police have the same hearing level?" then he would say "no". then i would say "so is it possible that one officer may think my exhaust is excessive and another officer my not?"
anyway, hope that some of this helps anyone else that is facing a court date on this bullshite charge.
it's not the money, it's the fact of the matter. i was trying to win one for all of us, but failed.
the task is up to someone else.
may the force be with you.
ryan

imported_loudsubz

edit: i was out of line, I appologize

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Matt, why are we being punished for trying to make **** our own... this isn't communism Matt how anything other than OEM is illegal is absoulte bullshit. Have you priced out an OEM exahust from Honda???? If anything other than OEM was illegal, CT and Carquest and NAPA may as well start selling bed and bath ****, cuz replacement parts are all illegal then. Besides that, they don't pay for my car, so why do THEY decide what I can drive? And my taxes pay for the roads... I get mighty annoyed by loud *** motorcycles, but I don't see them harassing the Hells Angels... "go head boys... deal your drugs... we've got RICERS to bust!!!"

imported_loudsubz

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noAC

thanks bbarbulo for seeing things my way.
i'm not a punk *** kid, with a coffee can on the back thinking i'm above the law. i bought a stainless steal canester muffler cause the thing has a life time warrenty. i wasn't even driving fast, i was turning a corner. right on red. it's the stupid peel region cops with nothing to do. oh, and the muffler is on a neon, not a civic. same difference i guess. the only reason i fought it was because of those damn chopper bikes sound way louder than me i never see them at the side of the road with a pig behind them.
learn from this i have, and so must all of you (if you haevn't already).
ryan

imported_gatherer

personally I think you should go in with as many different defenses as possible the start of figuring out your defense should be in reading the law and figuring out what section of the HTA your charged with ... the officer might write down improper muffler on the ticket but he has to write down the exact section of the HTA you are in violation of. like 186(a) or something like that.

and then you go from there to prove your within that law you read other laws and look for loopholes and issues. then you prepare questions for the officer and evidence. even if it means you have independant testing done of the DB level of the muffler then you get those testers to appear in court.

you have learned a valuble lesson in regards to the author of the document thing. anyways chalk this one up to learning and move on with life

imported_Hybridtheory

sorry to hear about your loss.........

alltho its too late now...... you should have brought something up about a decibel metre....

i dunno if this is just a bs rumour i've heard......... but for a cop to say your muffler is too loud...... don't they need a decibel metre??

noAC

i asked him "what measurable device did you use to determine my exhaust was too loud?" his responce was "my ears."
then i asked him "what is the acceptable decibel level that a muffler can produce?" his responce was "i don't know."
did nothing for the judge. he was a hard ***.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

"your stereo is too loud"

"how can it be, it's just set up for SQ"

"but it's not the original paper crap speakers... it's not OEM, here is a $300 fine for your stereo being too loud"

how would you like that, huh?? :cry:

punkindrublic

you could probably make your stock speakers "too loud"

although i've been driving with basically a striaght pipe exhust for over two years now and haven't been talked to by a cop ever about it

noAC

punkindrublic...you bastard guy!
some of us are unfortunate to get made examples of.

imported_BoOsTd

I have a Vibrant muffler, and its hardly Loud...especially compared to the guys running around with cherry bombs as mufflers...

TigerGirl

Good for you for trying!
The cops are always making something out of nothing and the judge will normally side the with police. B/C of the bad rap modified cars have, the cops will give you problems, and I agree that the motorcycles make a lot more noise.

noAC

thanks TigerGirl!
no one's getting me without a fight!

imported_loudsubz

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bdotdan

hey at least you made them earn that money by going to court instead of just payin it.plus if everyone did this then the courts would backed up and they would just start throwin out all the bs tickets. wish everyone did what u did.

isn't the fact that the pig didn't have a decibel meter and didn't know how loud its allowed to be be good enough for the ticket to be thrown out?

imported_EG4door

When I went to court for my 1st exhaust ticket, I pleaded guilty with an explination. I told the court that I had to replace the broken muffler with a muffler that was in proper working order. The ticket was then suspended by the judge.

imported_gatherer

well you can ask as many questions as you want ... even ask him what he had for lunch if you want (prosecution will object but hey I say waste time with a few odd ball questions now and then to keep them on their toes)

seriously ask them well do all cops have the same hearing abilities? then when he answers no so as not to prejur himself you follow up with . so is it possible that where you think a sound is too loud another officer could think it's too quite? (again he can't commit perjury) you then ask him if ever in his life he has experienced a time where he thought a sound was too loud, be it a movie threatre or a tv or radio, while another person listening didn't care about it or even ignored it because it was not bothering them? (hehehehe there is no way he can answer no to this but procescution might object "leading the witness" at which point you ask the judge (if they don't overrule) to rephrase)

if you get all the answers you need you finish off with a well prepared closing argument. and done you have cast a shadow of doubt on the case which means you cannot be found guilty.

at which point you follow up by informing the judge that the human ear is not the best judgement of noise level due to the variances between different human's tolerances and without a sound measuring device the officer cannot truely tell if a sound is too loud.

the Key is to be prepared!!! and never ask a question you don't already know the answer too... the key is to cast doubt that the charge has grounds and you will walk with it being thrown out of court.

EL_Sport

Problem is that the exhaust and other modifications laws here are not specific enough, so the officer does not have to have any sort of device and even if he did, there is no maximim db level given in our laws. The HTA is too general on the topic of exhaust noise and leaves it to the officer's discretion in terms of what is considered "excessive" noise.

bdotdan

"Also note, that the sound allowed to be emitted from your vehicle is 83 dBA as stated by Transport Canada in the Motor Vehicle Safety Act."

found this in the hta useful notes thread.