lets_ride

Hi guys,
Im trying to install power steering to my 2000 honda civic hatchback. I have done everything as instructed and my mechanic cant seem to figure it out as well. I have swapped another power steering pump to see if this will help, but same result. Pretty much, what is happening is...as soon as I start the car and move the wheel to either direction, the wheel starts going crazy. It'll flick left to right very fast. It is as if there's too much pressure going to the pump. I cant figure out what is wrong. from what i read on another forum is that I could have crossed fixed the two small hoses...but I am not sure what they mean by that. Anyone have experience with a power steering swap in the past?
anyone know what could be the problem?

any suggestion would help...plz and thank u

lets_ride

bump

MPR

You may have the input (pressure in) and output lines from the pump to the rack installed wrong/backwards..

Just a guess...

lets_ride

ye, thats what i'm assuming, but why would that cause the wheel to go crazy..its got so much power- like its going to rip my hands off.

have you done this before Mike?

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I agree it's likely the lines are crossed but I also wonder about what all parts you swapped over for this? You realize that the alignment angles are different for the non power steering vs power? I don't know if the difference in your civic is with the lower or upper control arms but the caster is different to help make turning the wheel easier on cars with out it. Also it's possible that the rack was just set up wrong before you installed it. Some times the wheel will move on a car a little at startup if the rack is of centre a bit from alignments and maybe yours it way out causing this problem.

could even be a combo of the rack being too far left or right before the install and the lines are crossed. I'd make sure the lines are right. Then if that isn't the problem/solution then with the car off so you don't tear your hands off turn the wheel all the way to lock, and not where the wheel position is and then count how many turns to opposite lock. Lets say it takes 3.5 rotations relative to where you started at, lock to lock. Divide that in half and turn back the 1.75 rotations, if the wheel is way off centre then this could be the issue.

Also this is an interesting problem you have so be sure to let us know what the cause and solutions were!

D.T.P

Could be something clogged, i remember we looped a power streering rack on a passat in/out air tight and it did something along those lines. While driving if you were to quickly throw the wheel on way it would keep going back and fourth. Removed the loop, problem gone.

Just an idea.

lets_ride

hmmm...im going to let my mechanic know...thanx guys, what you guys are suggesting makes a whole lot of sense, I'm going to talk to him and see if he can figure it out.

"You realize that the alignment angles are different for the non power steering vs power? "

I have a feeling this could be it.

i will keep you guys posted.

lets_ride

i got it checked out,
the pressure in hose is fitted properly.
theres no mix up with the small hoses.

its just very odd because as soon as you start the car, the wheel goes crazy and starts moving fast on its own...im not sure where the uncontrollable pressure is comming from.

the power rack seems to be installed correctly.

for the wheel to turn on its own, its getting pressure from somewhere..hmmmm


[QUOTE]Could be something clogged, i remember we looped a power streering rack on a passat in/out air tight and it did something along those lines. While driving if you were to quickly throw the wheel on way it would keep going back and fourth. Removed the loop, problem gone.
Just an idea./QUOTE]

was the wheel moving on its own?

lets_ride

bump

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I don't think the angles are the issue, just part of a problem you may find having added power to a non power car. check part numbers for upper and lower control arms with a parts supplier or Honda and see what if any are different. The difference will be that one changes the caster to a more positive angle then the other compromising high speed stability for low speed manoeuvrability

lets_ride

thanks Dustin,

my Mechanic told me that it could be the power steering pump thats causing the problem...he said that the pump itself may be a "high rpm power steering pump"
i'm not sure what he means

i got the parts off of a civic SI, my civic is a CX, so does that really matter?
in terms of matching up with rpm, my base 1.6y vs the Si motor?

lets_ride

hey guys,
the problem is still not solved.

the car is fully on idle, as soon as i start the car, the steering wheel..moves left to right constantly. I dont think this has anything to do with wheel alignment,
has anyone come across this problem?

so far I've tried 3 different power steering pumps, they all do the same, so im assuming its not the pump.

this car, 2000 civic cx did not coem with power steering, so...does that mean you cant swap a power steering in? I had my mechanic assemble in the rack and everything thats required to swap a PS into a civic, but once he completed his job, started up the car, the wheel started moving by its self.

we topped up the fluid level, everything is in place, and my understanding is that the civic model doesnt come with a pressure switch for the EKs, right?

lets_ride

bump plz

lets_ride

I got my car back from the mechanic..he has no clue what is going on...
anyone have an idea?

so after the power steering swap, and after checking for leaks and all....the steering wheel is still getting antonymous pressure to the wheel causing it to moving left to right on its own...its so much power that you cant even grab hold of the wheel...

any suggestions?

MPR

I've contactd a friend of mine who's a hydraulics specialist. He's the one who designed and built the power-steering pump powered adjustable wing on my friend's Fiero for ice racing.

As soon as I hear back, I'll post up his thoughts on your issue...

lets_ride

Thanx a lot Mike, I appreciate your help...this would be a great help to me. hopefully I can get this resolved..right now I'm driving with the ps belt off.

MPR

Ok, scratch that...lol Turns out he's unfamiliar with powersteering valving etc... but he said same thing as the rest of us, to make sure the lines are on correctly and the fluid is flowing properly in the right direction.

After giving it some more thought... to me it seems like an issue with the valving where the motion of the steering shaft/column dictates how much fluid or pressure is used to assist the motion.

The pump itself has a built-in pressure regulator that allows the fluid to circulate when no fluid is required. When you turn the wheel, it actuates a valve which lets the fluid be re-directed to apply force to the rack in which ever direction. I think a problem with that valving would cause this issue. The fact that the wheel jerks back an forth tells me the valving is actuating too easily (allowing excessive force on the rack when it's unecessary) and the motion of the rack exacerbates the defective valving.

The next step I'd take would be to remove the rack from the car and open up the valve housing. If you click this link: Part Detail it's number 19 on the diagram. Also shown there are seals and rotory valve components related to it. From what you describe, I think the problem could be related to the valving.

MPR

Here's a link that shows how the system works: HowStuffWorks "How Car Steering Works"

I believe the problem you have lies withing the rotory valve mechanism. It sounds to me like the valve is allowing fluid to go one direction and as the rack "jerks" it moves the valve the other way...etc.. causing the back and forth perpetual motion.

ol Dusty

iTrader: (2)

I wanted to say something to that effect wasn't sure what exactly I was thinking of. the bottom of the coloumn shaft is likely different on the non power steering rack. in cars that P/S is an option they likely only use one coloumn but in this case they might have had a different one.

MPR

^Ahhh yes! That could be it as well. Good call Dustin!

Looking at the part number for power vs non power steering coupler that connects the steering column to the pinion shaft on the rack, the numbers are different. See links below (part #4).

Power: Part Detail

Non power: Part Detail

Don't know if you replaced this part as well when you swapped all the other parts. But it's a possibility there is an issue with compatability between these components... Also look at the valve sub-assembly shaft (part 18 on the power steering link vs the assembly on the non-power steering link...click on "steering gear box" or "PS gear box" on the left side...), the tops of the shafts may be different in how they mate with the rest of the steering column shaft/coupler.

Definitely something to check out as well as the valve assembly.