Si98

from doing a search i've noticed only a few people on this forum are using wilwoods such as bbarbulo. i'm just wondering if these brake kits make a big noticable difference over stock and if they are worth the money. i also heard performance calipers eat up rotors and pads at a much quicker rate. any feedback would greatly be appreciated.

votexgti

I just put the Wilwood 4 piston 12.19" package on my Integra and WOW, talk about powerful. I expect that at the track they will not fade which was the issue I was having before.

Nova_Dust

Brake fade would have more to do with pads. Different pads have different heat tolerances. That being said, street pads will reach their operating temp faster than that of circuit formula pads. This is simple, on the street, the amount of force and speed at which your car is travelling is much slower compare to vehicles on the track and therefore, you need pads that can heat up fast so they can work with very minimal turn-around/reaction time as possible. But the catch is, that to stop from a high speed, say 150km on a highway to a complete stop would be very difficult. You will stop eventually, but the distance will be long. And if there is any object standing in between that distance, that means accident.

For circuit pads, they can withheld much higher temp. meaning, they will fade less compare to street pads. What this means, is that the materials used in these pads (more metals, or other substances) will bite onto the rotor stronger once it is heated up, and they will work better once reach that operating temperature. That's why, circuit pads aren't recommanded on the street because to stop from say 60 to 0, that's not even enough time for the pads to reach its operating temperature and what does that mean? It means you cannot stop on time. Circuit pads need to stay in such temperature zone so it can work properly. Cars that do circuit racing are constantly cornering, which translating into more frequient braking so the pads will stay in that temperature zone. And because they have higher heat resistance, to stop from a 300km down to a hairpin cornering speed, your pads will do just the job fine and will reduce your braking time, which also translate into late braking = time saving in overall lapping times.

Now, bigger caliper is there to press down the pads with more even forces. Single piston being, well, 1 piston compare to stock NSX caliper which is 2 pot piston - 1 on each side, to some of the higher end stuff, like 4 pot (2 on each side), 6 pot (3 on each side) and to 12 pot even. They press down the pads with more even forces but that does not necessary translate into better braking. Obviously, the actual "push" surface of a 4 pot caliper (the piston contact zone, the circle part) will be a little smaller than that of a 2 pot caliper. There are even "mini" 6 pot caliper which is the same size as a 4 pot but what is the point? Each piston is reduced in size but to push the pads more evenly but could it actually increase braking or just to allow the pad/rotor wear more evenly? But we won't deny the fact that larger caliper does increase braking power, but that is because the rotor has increased in size which creates more contact zone and the caliper then therefore must increase proportionally so it has enough grabbing force to hold on to the rotors.

Imagine a mouse pad is a brake pad. If you press it with 2 finger, you will only get 2 pressure points. If you use 6, then the majority of the mouse pad is pressed against the other surface.

The rule of thumb is to find the smallest wheel that can clear the caliper because for racing, the smaller wheel the better (and wider as well). But if the weight of the car is heavy, then you need larger brakes (think about a 4000lb American car and a 18 wheeler). To increase braking is good idea, but some times it can be achieved via other methods - i.e. pads, rotors, fluid, master cylinder, lines or even reduce the weight of the car so the brakes don't have to work as hard to stop such heavy vehicle.

As for the actual brake fade, the heat which is created between the pad and the rotor will become a very thin layer of gas. When the heat stays and cannot be vented out, or absorbed by the pads, or the rotors, the thin layer of gas will prevent the pads from touching against the rotor. So it seems like your car isn't braking as hard as before.

Having said all that, if your car has increased in power which warrents you to increase the braking power, then by all means, increase it. Afterall, safety is number 1 factor. But also know that the pads will effect what type of situation your car is under, what type of tires you are using, and whether the lines will flex or not, and if your brake fluid is up to par or not. Also, larger brake caliper require larger master cylinder. If your car is 6th gen Si, then you are using 13/16" master cylinder (or 7/8"), you should also consider upgrade it to 1" master cylinder and other braking components.

Because larger caliper with inproportion master cylinder will not increase your braking power, but to reduce it. Because the fluid cannot travel fast enough to feed all the pistons.

If any of my information isn't correct, I apologise and please correct me.

Younes Si

holy ****, that's a lot of information ^^

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Charles you have too much time on your hands dude

I'm about to throw on a 1 inch MC on my car to pump those 4 pots even harder. the 15/16 was sufficient tho.

Nova_Dust

I am sure 1" MC will make your 4 pot really shine.

Si98

is that stock size?

Younes Si

WTF

1inch mc?
"pump those 4 posts even harder"
15/16 wtf

whats' all this mean

imported_ERTW

please resign your membership, you dont know enough to be in a car club..

mc=master cylinder, it is actuated by your brake pedal, it pushes brake fluid to the calipers, the bigger it is the more fluid it can push per unit of pedal travel, if you have 4 piston calipers, you want more fluid going to them.. simple concept?

Younes Si

I asked a simple question...
why do you have to act like a f ucken tough guy?

I didn't know what they were talking about, so i asked a question
"please resign your membership" <=======???

I dont' know if your trying to be funny, or your just stupid

imported_ERTW

why dont you read nova's post? it explains everything you asked

Younes Si

because it has nothing to do with this ===>

imported_ERTW

exactly, you're too lazy to read a well written post that answered the questions that you asked before you even asked them.. i stand by my position

Nova_Dust

15/16" is SiR MC spec. I don't think Si is 15/16". 1" is ITR/CTR size. Some say GSR also uses 1" but I cannot confirm that. I personally use 1" MC/BB (Brake Booster) straight from a USDM ITR and it bolts onto 6th gen chassis without bending lines and whatnot. The brake setup is only SiR 4 disc but that 1" MC gives me the room to upgrade in the future.

If you just want to upgrade the caliper without doing anything else, then I suggest you try out the pad/rotor combo first. See how that works for you. For me, daily driving on hwy and local street, my brakes can stop me rather well. But if you choose to upgrade, make sure you get the 96-00 hatchback/SiR 40/40 PV because your is 30/30 I believe.

On the track, I will have to test it this summer.

Si98

i just found out the stock size of my MC is 13/16". is this size good enough for only 2 front 4-piston calipers. i'm just going to leave my rear drums the way they are for now.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

Si98, no

my stock was 13/16 too, the 15/16 I use now is off a 00 SiR, and the 1 inch that I got is off a CTR.

Nova_Dust

First of all, more braking force on the front will introduce understeer, and the opposite will create oversteer.

What you are proposing will not only decrease your braking power, but also cause uneven braking bias between the front and back. Unless you do all your braking in a straight line (and even then, the braking can't be as good), I suggest you hold off on it and think it again.

Nova_Dust

Gonna bend some lines with the CTR one, eh?

Si98

thanks for the tips nova. i'll just replace the rotors, pads and see how that goes.