what's better H22 or B20?
13-Nov-2003, 10:13 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: T-dot
Posts: 277
what's better H22 or B20?
just need to know what's better for a do it your-self swap on low buget like $2000-$3500? keep in mind its on a coupe/sedan not a hatch.
alot of people are talking about B20 (2.0L) crv engines because they produce high torque w/gsr trannies
also is a a B20 block with a vtec head a good idea? whats a good head to use for this motor itr?
or is the H22(2.2L) motor the best it has 0.2L more? doesn't that mean more torque as well as Hp and also involves less work?
what im basicly looking for is something with alot of torque and hp on a low buget.
alot of people are talking about B20 (2.0L) crv engines because they produce high torque w/gsr trannies
also is a a B20 block with a vtec head a good idea? whats a good head to use for this motor itr?
or is the H22(2.2L) motor the best it has 0.2L more? doesn't that mean more torque as well as Hp and also involves less work?
what im basicly looking for is something with alot of torque and hp on a low buget.
13-Nov-2003, 10:19 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Starbucks
Posts: 2,688
on a low budget of what you have said, you could afford to buy all the necessary parts for a B20 swap, but then install would be addtional.
the b20 does produce high torque and is a great motor...i plan on buying one myself. the best thing about b series swaps is that there is a multitude of interchangeable parts. the key with a b20 setup is your selection of tranny...it all depends on what specific application you're working towards. as for CRVTEC, you won't be able afford it...its rather expense, and its best that professionals do the work. with LS/VTEV CRVTEC, tuning is the key. you can't just slap on a VTEC head, add some oil lines etc, and be off. the b20 sleeves are weaker compared to other b series motors.
i don't know much about an H22....pm cablerat, he'll be able to answer your questions.
on your budget, a b18b might be a considerable option too.
the b20 does produce high torque and is a great motor...i plan on buying one myself. the best thing about b series swaps is that there is a multitude of interchangeable parts. the key with a b20 setup is your selection of tranny...it all depends on what specific application you're working towards. as for CRVTEC, you won't be able afford it...its rather expense, and its best that professionals do the work. with LS/VTEV CRVTEC, tuning is the key. you can't just slap on a VTEC head, add some oil lines etc, and be off. the b20 sleeves are weaker compared to other b series motors.
i don't know much about an H22....pm cablerat, he'll be able to answer your questions.
on your budget, a b18b might be a considerable option too.
13-Nov-2003, 10:59 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pickering
Posts: 3,984
I'd think the H22 is the most economical as a do-it-yourself swap.. Not easier, but cheaper.. BEST BANG FOR YOU BUCK!
200hp / 160ft-lbs, you won't be dissappointed..
I myself am not familiar with the B20 and how it'll actually sit in a civic, but from the looks of it, it will be very pricey and perhaps annoying cuz your gonna be buying parts from different B-swaps to build what you need. When you start swapping stuff around, there's always a lot of money involved.
I'm sorry to say that you will NOT swap an H22 in your car for $3500. If you want low budget go b16, but in my opinion it's not worthwhile for the power gains.
Quick sample of prices.
: H22 Engine / Tranny / ECU / Shift Linkage (Complete package) Ranges from $2500 - $3500 depending where you buy it and condition.
: Mounts - $500+ depending where you buy and what you buy.
: New Clutch / Timing Belt / Water pump - $500+
(yes, for a proper swap you should replace all this)
: Drive shafts / Intermediate Shaft - $300+
: Missing / Broken Sensors - $100+
(Trust me, unless you take out the motor, something will be broken!!)
There's a lot more... these are just bare minimum costs.. The hardest thing to do on this swap is the shift linkage..
If you plan on spending like 3K on a swap, make sure you have like 4K stashed! heheh
200hp / 160ft-lbs, you won't be dissappointed..
I myself am not familiar with the B20 and how it'll actually sit in a civic, but from the looks of it, it will be very pricey and perhaps annoying cuz your gonna be buying parts from different B-swaps to build what you need. When you start swapping stuff around, there's always a lot of money involved.
I'm sorry to say that you will NOT swap an H22 in your car for $3500. If you want low budget go b16, but in my opinion it's not worthwhile for the power gains.
Quick sample of prices.
: H22 Engine / Tranny / ECU / Shift Linkage (Complete package) Ranges from $2500 - $3500 depending where you buy it and condition.
: Mounts - $500+ depending where you buy and what you buy.
: New Clutch / Timing Belt / Water pump - $500+
(yes, for a proper swap you should replace all this)
: Drive shafts / Intermediate Shaft - $300+
: Missing / Broken Sensors - $100+
(Trust me, unless you take out the motor, something will be broken!!)
There's a lot more... these are just bare minimum costs.. The hardest thing to do on this swap is the shift linkage..
If you plan on spending like 3K on a swap, make sure you have like 4K stashed! heheh
13-Nov-2003, 11:05 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Starbucks
Posts: 2,688
undeniably, the H22 will give you the power/torque that you're looking for. however, like cablerat said, it won't be cheap or easy. i think wiring up the ECU will be rather difficult (or so i've read).
i also read threads on H-T where they discuss the weight issue concering the H22.
if you do go with an H22, get bigger breaks.
i also read threads on H-T where they discuss the weight issue concering the H22.
if you do go with an H22, get bigger breaks.
13-Nov-2003, 11:07 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Starbucks
Posts: 2,688
if you have time and are seriously considering buying an H22....read this thread......its really good FYI.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=362984
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=362984
13-Nov-2003, 01:28 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pickering
Posts: 3,984
It's a stupid rumour man..
Use common sense and you'll see the weight is negligible..
Mine is on stock suspension and I garantee you I can still handle as good as any of you B series boys. Take out A/C, A/C Compressor, PS, PS Mount and you've already dropped the weight difference between an h22 and B18..
Don't need bigger brakes unless you plan on stopping hard from like 200KM/HR.. Suspension sits just the same.. I'll post an updated pic I got at home.. looks so damn stock.. Your driving a quick civic, not a super car.. My stock SI 4 wheel disc brakes stop the car just the same.. Yeah I just ensured that everything was in good shape (new rotors/pads all around)...
ECU wiring is hard if your gonna use the P13.. not worth it in my opinion. Just chip the P28 with h22 fuel maps and build a rpm activated circuit to open the secondary butterflies.. That way your wiring is completely original, all you really need to do is cut prelude harness on motor side, re-wire to civic clips and extend them from right hand drive to left hand... If u swap on an SI with VTEC then you don't need anything.. NO EGR, NO KNOCK.. all useless.. Trust me, it's hell trying to get a P13 running well.
That honda-tech thread is actually quite positive on the H22 swap.
Some people complain about vibrations, yeah it does vibrate the car at low rpms, depends on your mounts and how much you've torqued them.. You gotta remember these mounts are completely solid, no flex at all, the motor will not twitch when givin gas.. so the energy get transferred to the car..
On HCP mounts(only one i know of) the passenger shaft will not fit perfectly.. You can either buy custom shafts or, grind off an inch of the inner head to make it fit..Mine fits great
As for snapping shafts, that'll happen ONLY if you have shitty shafts with FAT FAT tires and you drop the clutch hard off the line.. Im sure mine would be toast by now if my tires didn't spin..
Traction wise,, if u feather it right, you can spin in second for a max of half second and catch.. I've given 13 sec stangs a serious run for their money with 185's ON!! I've beaten quite a few too.. (no not streetracing :P)
What else... hmm.. Vtec in a hatch 22 is just sick.. feels like a turbo kicks in..
Use common sense and you'll see the weight is negligible..
Mine is on stock suspension and I garantee you I can still handle as good as any of you B series boys. Take out A/C, A/C Compressor, PS, PS Mount and you've already dropped the weight difference between an h22 and B18..
Don't need bigger brakes unless you plan on stopping hard from like 200KM/HR.. Suspension sits just the same.. I'll post an updated pic I got at home.. looks so damn stock.. Your driving a quick civic, not a super car.. My stock SI 4 wheel disc brakes stop the car just the same.. Yeah I just ensured that everything was in good shape (new rotors/pads all around)...
ECU wiring is hard if your gonna use the P13.. not worth it in my opinion. Just chip the P28 with h22 fuel maps and build a rpm activated circuit to open the secondary butterflies.. That way your wiring is completely original, all you really need to do is cut prelude harness on motor side, re-wire to civic clips and extend them from right hand drive to left hand... If u swap on an SI with VTEC then you don't need anything.. NO EGR, NO KNOCK.. all useless.. Trust me, it's hell trying to get a P13 running well.
That honda-tech thread is actually quite positive on the H22 swap.
Some people complain about vibrations, yeah it does vibrate the car at low rpms, depends on your mounts and how much you've torqued them.. You gotta remember these mounts are completely solid, no flex at all, the motor will not twitch when givin gas.. so the energy get transferred to the car..
On HCP mounts(only one i know of) the passenger shaft will not fit perfectly.. You can either buy custom shafts or, grind off an inch of the inner head to make it fit..Mine fits great
As for snapping shafts, that'll happen ONLY if you have shitty shafts with FAT FAT tires and you drop the clutch hard off the line.. Im sure mine would be toast by now if my tires didn't spin..
Traction wise,, if u feather it right, you can spin in second for a max of half second and catch.. I've given 13 sec stangs a serious run for their money with 185's ON!! I've beaten quite a few too.. (no not streetracing :P)
What else... hmm.. Vtec in a hatch 22 is just sick.. feels like a turbo kicks in..
13-Nov-2003, 05:24 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: in the MOSH pit
Posts: 5,550
Re: what's better H22 or B20?
Originally posted by PRoCiVic
just need to know what's better for a do it your-self swap on low buget like $2000-$3500? keep in mind its on a coupe/sedan not a hatch.
just need to know what's better for a do it your-self swap on low buget like $2000-$3500? keep in mind its on a coupe/sedan not a hatch.
$2000 for parts Engine, Tranny, Ecu, Axels, Linkage
$1000 for labour and fluids
And if you're lucky you'll have some coin left to get an exhaust.
13-Nov-2003, 11:32 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 326
pic
I'm super happy with my B18. If you look long and hard, you can get the B18 or even the B20 swap parts for under $2300. (But add more for the extra's if you're picky like me... new timing belt, water pump, etc)
I've seen quite a few of the "other bits" sell really *cheap* that you need for the B20 swap, like the B18 Intake and stuff.
I'm undecided. If I hadn't done the swap yet, I'd probably still do the B18 first. It was my first stepping stone.
For me, my next step is either 1) mildly bulletproofing it (professionally) and turboing it
or
2) going with a stock H22... getting new mounts, ecu etc...
But seeing even this part of the H22 swap makes me wet my underpants
Check out this guys h22 civic pics
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291107231
I've seen quite a few of the "other bits" sell really *cheap* that you need for the B20 swap, like the B18 Intake and stuff.
I'm undecided. If I hadn't done the swap yet, I'd probably still do the B18 first. It was my first stepping stone.
For me, my next step is either 1) mildly bulletproofing it (professionally) and turboing it
or
2) going with a stock H22... getting new mounts, ecu etc...
But seeing even this part of the H22 swap makes me wet my underpants
Check out this guys h22 civic pics
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291107231
