lotusvale

is there any guideline where you can match how stiff your shock absorbes should be once you know what the spring rates are?

see this what the problem i'm having right now. i have tein s tech+kyb agx. the tein springs are very soft and low (235F/140R) vs stock (201F/99.8R). so when i set both F /R to the lowest setting on the agx (just to test the extreme case), it gives me a poor ride as the rims/tires bouncing hard up/down and keep hitting the fender. so then i gradually increase the shocks rate until they don't really the fenders that much. by this time though, it's almost max for both F/R (3 out of 4 F and 7 out of 8 R), and i mean they're not terribly bouncy that you will jump up and down your seat, but you can feel they're bouncy.

i understand you can have the ideal situation with the true coilover cause the spring and shocks absorber rate are matched together. but is this all you can have with shocks/spring combination?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

if your rims are hitting your fender, no matter the ride height... you have problems

I suspect you have left your bumpstops uncut by the ride quality you describe.

even at the lowest setting KYBs are stiffer than OEM shocks.

lotusvale

oh...which part is the bumpstop? is it expensive to have it done?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

to cut your bumpstops, it's free hahaha

who installed this shat for you anyways?? if you didn't do it, then whoever did fuct up prolly with the bumpstops

lotusvale

haha..are you sure it's free man?? cause if you know a place that is cheap, i'd love to go there....
well..i went to a mechanic place and probably the guy didn't really know how low it should be and didn't bother to cut it.
i think it's still the original probably and you might be right since the tein instructions does say it to cut the bumpstop....

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

umm yeah I know i'm right haha j/k

it's just an idea man... cuz that's exactly what it sounds like to me.

as for how much labour it involves, the guy has to remove everything again down to the last bolt, uncompress the springs again (prolly not tho cuz they're lowering springs, he won't need a compressor). or he can try to hack away at them through the spring coils, but then he might nick your shock rod and kill your shock.

lotusvale

damn bbarbulo , i think you're right though
i was looking at some sites, and people had the same problem and the problem was the bumpstop...
ahh....damn complicated..would that take longer than changing the struts/spring? cause if not, i might just go to other mechanics and not having a pain in the *** going all the way back to whitby.

lotusvale

bbarbulo,

i just went to a mechanic today.
it turns out that the bumpstop was already cut but not much. and he said that actually there's no problem. the problem i described is pretty normal especially with lowered car.
but then he said i need to cut more the bumpstop since there's only approx 0.5 inch gap between the bumpstop and the shaft bottom, so then there's not enough travel for the shocks to be done. we then cut another inch off. the results was a little bit better.

are we doing the right thing? like...how much space do you guys have between the bumpstop and the shock shaft?
right now, you can actually see the shaft when the car sit on the ground where before barely see it. any inputs would be great

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

the bump stop was supposed to be cut right in half the 1st time round and you should use the upper portion

what you describe is NOT normal with lowered cars. the bouncing around and isht... totally not normal

you have wheels/tires or are you running stock? also, ride is a little harsher in winter anyways, so maybe leave it for now, then in the summer, adjust air pressure to 30 psi all around on stock wheels and tune your ride from there!! ok?

As for space between the bump stop, the thing is your mechanic prolly pushed the bumpstop down a bit, so what you are seeing may not be a true enough representation of the actual travel. As for distance... I prolly have a good 3 inches of travel in mine. I'm guessing tho cuz I have dust boots overtop of them so I can't see really... plus the car is in storage so ...

lemme find a pic tho

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

hope that helps a little... and yeah, I know my susp is dirty

lotusvale

oh...right in half from the original? well then i guess it's still okay since i still the got the top half plus (i believe) 2 more lines. then now cut another line, so i still have an extra line after the top half.

yea...u know what ...the bumpy stuff i described...i was probably overcautious about it....as i shouldn't have probably compared it to my friend's tein ha. i mean the ride for true coil is really superb as you barely feel any bumps.
sorry about that

thx for the pics. yea for the rear one i also got covered by the boots so i couldn't tell how much travel i had (and probably not sure if you should really cut it more or not). for sure it's being cut since he cut the front in the beginning, but not much pretty sure. i'm guessing it wasn't too cut too much either which probably causes the car to sit on the bumpstop.
for my front though, i can see about 1.5 finger distance travel.

EDIT
oh sorry...i got the oem rims with potenza RE10 tires with i think 205 size instead of the original 195.
hehe..it's crazy..it rubs when you hard corner. i guess that's because the spring is too soft, and i guess having the shocks stiffen up, it won't get rid of the rubbing rite?

lotusvale

oh and also, the bumpy sound i had before, he explained that the bumpstop keep hitting the bottom plate of the shaft which makes the car sit on the bumpstop which the springs/shocks can't be fully be used.


in true coil, aside from being able to adjust the spring rate and shocks matched together, what differentiate this with the spring/shocks combo for having very nice ride. i can swear, in my friend's tucked in prelude with tein ha (not sure about the model, should be after the basic), you can almost feel nothing when the road is bumpy. and eventhough the feeling of the car is stiff, the ride feels very soft. great technology (damn...wish i had more money)
the mechanic also said in true coil system, you don't have the bumpstop anymore because of the spring/shocks design...(i wasn't very convinced this one). is that true?

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

hahahaha.... your mechanic is a mook!! coilovers have even longer bumpstops... mine are about an 1 longer than the OEM size. The main difference is the shock body is designed to accomodate the lower ride, so the shock body ends sooner, providing more travel than you would have with the OEM length shock w/ lowering springs.

1.5 fingers of travel is attrocious. you should have about a full 3 to 4 fingers I suppose.

also, you have 205/55/15 tires? cuz that's why you rub rub rub. the correct size should have been 205/50/15. I run 205/45/16 tires and I don't rub anywhere ever. the middle number is a % of the first number indicating height as a function of the width. So if you went from a 195/55/15 tire to a 205/55/15, you effectively increased your overall tire height by 2 times (beacuse the tire has two sidewalls) 55% times 10 milimeters. So you're looking at about an 11 mm difference in height.... thereby causing the rubbing. a correct size tire will NOT rub under almost any condition cuz the tire and wheelwell are designed to work with each other even under full susp squat.

as for why expensive coilovers are nice... it's cuz they are tuned spring rates and dampening/rebound values. Also, it's designed and built with the lowered stance in mind, so it uses a shorter shock body, returning some of the wheel travel back to the susp.

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

I wanna see PICTURES of your bumpstops and everything!! I want PICS!!! that's the only way I think I can truly help you cuz I'm not 100% certain you understand some of the terminology.

Put a ruler next to everything when taking pics.

lotusvale

okay man..thx a lot for the info...i'll try to take as best pics as possible