Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

suspension tips?

Old 07-Aug-2005, 09:38 PM
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suspension tips?

my car has the following mods, lowered on koni rsk kit with special reds, 195-50-15 falken 512s, gsr rear sway, front and rear strut bar, do luck floor bar, and c-pillar bar. i brought the car down to shannonville for the first time and learned a sh*t load of stuff about my car. however, it wasn't handling as good as i wanted it to because it still felt too soft. my shocks are turned on max but i think it could be my springs? i want to go stiffer and a bit lower without having to go coilovers. would slapping on some race springs cure this problem? at first i thought 1.75" was a good drop but not anymore! too much roll still for my taste. i know with some race springs i'll need a camber kit because even now my tires are suffering from camber wear but not too bad. will i need a camber kit for the rear too or will the washer trick do? i do plan on raising the car back for the winter too. i'm slapping on a si 21mm front sway on and maybe some tie bars for front and rear. im such a bar ***** haha but help! i want my car to handle even better than how it handles now while still sticking with 512s because i don't have $$ to get new tires yet. i plan on buying the new falken RT-615s when i get new tires .
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Old 07-Aug-2005, 11:08 PM
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ok first of all, lemme share a couple of racing wisdoms:

1. tires are cheaper than $3000 in suspension mods
1a. tires are also the BEST suspension mod
2. 'budget' mods/bars don't produce better handling
3. hatchbacks are the worse for chassis stiffness
4. some body roll is good, it transfers weight to help with traction where it's needed most

that being said, what you need are custom springs from Eibach. it seems to me if that's not an option, then you would prefer some linear rate springs. talk to gatherer about spring rates. linear rate springs will kill normal driveability. also, I think you will eventually want some revalved yellow shocks too.

the front sway bar will be a marked improvement. THAT would prolly be the first mod I'd do if I were you.

camber kit, ABSOLUTELY. it won't help you with body roll, but it'll help you lay down a better contact patch. the washer trick will do for the back... the back has a sick camber curve anyways.

tie bars will prove to be a waste of money for you most likely. invest in energy suspension bushings EVERYWHERE instead. get the black ones. then if you see fit, add a front lower tie bar.

now if I were you I'd do it in this order:

1. camber kit
2. tires
3. bushings
4. front sway bar
5. springs
6. shocks (yellow)
7. front lower tie bar

of course that's assuming you have GOOD upper front and rear bars. I'd also look into some diagonal bars for the hatch to triangulate the c-pillar to the floor where the bumper bolts to.
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Old 07-Aug-2005, 11:11 PM
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if you plan to race competitively in Solo 1 then get a coupe. just my opinion though, most racers prefer the hatch
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Old 07-Aug-2005, 11:29 PM
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i do have polyurethane bushings on my control arms all around. when i did the front i had to buy another kit for the inner bushings and it came with a bunch of other bushings so i got them to put that in as well. i've already spent 3000 on my car ever since i bought it and all of it went into brakes and suspension mods. i was planning to put a front bar on earlier but the guy gave me an ek bar and i didnt know so now i have to go change it to eg bar. i'm thinking i can live with my shocks now because they are still very new. it'll seem like a waste of money if i just changed to yellows now. btw bbarbulo, i got my brake swap done and how can i tell if i have a gsr 98+ mc? the guy who sold it to me claims that everything came off a 2001 gsr but when i brought the parts to my mechanic he told me that the front brake stuff came off a sir. he didn't know what kind of mc i had though. basically i'm looking to improve on my cars handling right now by switching some minor stuff or even adding on stuff rather than replacing everything. i don't plan on racing competitively but i just want a car that handles well so i can have lots of fun when i bring it down to the track but at the same time i can just drive it home somewhat comfortably. my car is a little stiff right now but i wouldn't mind if it got a bit stiffer.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 02:32 AM
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ENERGY bushings everywhere? Are you refering to the MASTER BUSHING SET by ENERGY?



EK includes:
HYPER-FLEX SYSTEM Complete Master Bushing Set Includes: front control arm bushings, front shock bushings, front end links, front sway bar bushings, front and rear coil spring isolator set, rear trailing arm bushing set, steering rack bushings, transmission shifter stabilizer bushings (manual transmission only), front ball joint boots and front tie rod boots.

how much would this cost to get installed?
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 03:02 AM
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i didn't get the master set. if you want the whole master set, my mechanic can do everything for 400 bucks, which will make your car feel COMPLETELY different. most places charge like 180-200 bucks for control arms alone. he does decent jobs and if you catch him on a not busy day then it can be done real quick. i'm itching to buy a teg maybe at the end of this year and sell this hatchie and if i do so i'll be putting on a master set.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 03:29 AM
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just make sure your brake master cyl says Nissin 15/16 on it. also the SiR has a horizontal bolt pattern. not sure about the GSR.

post a pic
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 03:35 AM
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so it'll say 15/16 on it if it is an sir one eh? hmmm, i'll try to get a pic of it tomorrow.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 03:48 AM
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both GSR and SiR are 15/16 along with some other ones in the honda lineup. it's generally the part # on the booster or the bolt pattern on the master cylinder that can help identify the origins of it.

if you have a 5th gen, and you put a GSR master in it, I'm 99% sure the lines have to be cut and re-flared with a larger fitting.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 03:50 AM
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oh and about your other questions, that's why I always ask ppl what's their PURPOSE and GOALS for the car. cuz if you get that wrong right off the start, then you end up having to replace brand new components.

esp things like springs, race teams tweak their spring rates all the time, for tires, weather, and track conditions. like some tracks are bumpy and require softer springs to maintain tire contact. some are smooth as glass and can run higher spring rates.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 11:03 AM
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tires, tires, tires. the Zeix ZE-512 is a very long wearing streat all season tire. with its 360 treadware rating its very long lasting, but won't offer anywhere near the grip of these three:


Hankook Ventus R-S2 Z212 - its based off a race tire, 200 treadware as oppsed to the 512's 360 treadware rating

Falken Azeni RT-615 - same as above, but should be slighlty better but more expensive. same 200 treadware rating

Kumho MX - cheaper of the three, will get smoked by both but its still better then the 512's.

i'm not saying the 512's suck, but they aren't meant for track stuff...they are the tire that will last you 60,000Km as opposed to the 20,000km I hope to get out of my Hankook R-S2 Z212's


that will massively improve grip, but you said its still roling to much, and with all those braces, i'd go stiffer springs too, integra application springs (stiffer then civic application)
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 01:14 PM
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so the higher the treadware the longer the tire lasts? iuno man 512s wear pretty damn quick. and as for the gsr mc yes lines were rebent and flared according to my mechanic. i thought the 98+ gsr mc were 1"? i'm looking to just make my car a bit stiffer. i don't want to make my car like a go kart and have no roll at all but i want to cut down on the roll because on the track my car still feels like a boat.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 01:18 PM
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Something I feel that is overlooked is a good racing seat. I thought my car had lots of body roll left and I wanted to add a bunch of bars to get rid of it. Then I won those seats from Teknotik (thanks guys!) and when I got them it, corners felt much flatter because I was staying put and vertical in the chair.

Try a lap in one or something if you can find a donor.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 02:13 PM
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bushings and sway bars!!! whatever bushings you haven't done, DO THEM.

GoldBadge is right too, seats make a big diff. Choose your seat carefully, I had 4 diff't sets of seats before I got the ones I currently have. And yeah, I do consider the seat part of 'suspension' mods, simply because my handling reached a limit where the stock (or other) seats couldn't contain me at high lateral Gs which became dangerous. Sparco Sprints were awesome for driving hard, but tough to get in and out of.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 02:15 PM
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how about the bride style seats from automotive warehouse? they're cheaper than teknotik recaro look alikes and they seem to hold better from other pics i've seen.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 02:19 PM
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remember, the seat is what keeps you and the car together. in an accident if the seat back breaks, it's easily concievable that you'll break your neck, esp in a rear-end situation. yeah the seatbelt keeps you from going forward, but the seat is what keeps your spine inside your back during an accident.

don't cheap out on seats. Corbeau are decent seats for a low price. I can't say anything about Teknotik or some Bride ripoff or anything like that. I spent almost $2000 on the seats I have now. and I know a lil purple car with something even better.
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 10:18 PM
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I would never track my car with Koni reds. Their barely an upgrade from OEM shocks. Yellows all the way!!
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 10:47 PM
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Swaybars? who needs swaybars? I've never had any...
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 10:49 PM
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but you'd love to get some, I know
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Old 08-Aug-2005, 11:52 PM
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yup, generally, the higher the treadware rating, the longer the tires should last. 360 will last longer then 200, between 140-200 probably won't be a huge difference, just like between 300-360 probably won't be a huge difference. i just know the 512 is supposed to be a longer wearing tire and more important then that, its an all season tire where as the other ones i mentioned are strictly a max summer tire
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