imported_BoOsTd

I came across this little table on the net, they guy Tunes M5's and this is more or less his rules of thumb. Does this chart make sence?



Suspension Adjustment Table

Adjustment More Understeer More Oversteer
---------- --------------- --------------
1. Front sway bar Thicker/stiffer Thinner/softer
2. Rear sway bar Thinner/softer Thicker/stiffer
3. Front springs Stiffer Softer
4. Rear springs Softer Stiffer
5. Front wheel camber More positive More negative
6. Rear wheel camber More negative More positive
7. Front tire pressure Lower Higher
8. Rear tire pressure Higher Lower

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/sus...ar_tuning.html

Cynikal.Mindset

yes, yes it does...why u think people want those beefy *** 22mm swaybars for their civics...to make the car oversteer, well more of counteract the understeer

but yea, makes perfect sense to me

imported_BoOsTd

Spring is creeping closer and closer, I want to start thinking about my setup, and alignment. I followed Gatheres and B's advice and picked up an SIR front sway bar/controll arms/endlinks/bolts ect... Same guy I bought off (Sir11, good guy) had an ingalls camber kit for my car for a good price so i grabbed it off him too, not cuz of bad tire ware or that i really needed it ect, but simply for complete suspension tuning.


Heres what I got:

Sir Front sway bar

Ingalls Camber correction front

Front Strut Tower bar

350 lb coiloversleeve spring front / tokico hp strut
__________________________________________________ __

450 lb coiloversleeve spring Rear/ tokico hp strut

Rear strut Tower bar

Rear lower tie bar

Rear homemade camber correction (nuts and bolts ect..)

Energy suspension Master kit (comming soon)

__________________________________________________ ____


Im going to Lower it 1.5" When i take it in for an alignment what should I ask for,... Last year I told him Factory specs... This year im going to be playing with camber, spring rates and swaybars, so should i still ask for factory specs? Or should I play with some different camber settings...

Also is a front lower tie bar going to help me much? And will a rear swaybar help me much since im going with the higher spring rate in the rear ( I rather abit of oversteer than understeer)

Last Question anyone know thw thickness of the Sir front Swaybar?

Any sudgestions/ missing items to dial this setup in perfectly would be appretiated (besides the adjustable shocks)

Cynikal.Mindset

rear sway bars usually make the biggest difference and any piece of chassis stiffening will help if not alot but a little...the front upper and lower ties are gonna help with turn in, make it quicker and more responsive...and with the rear being in check its gonna follow quicker creating the oversteer (gonna take a while to get used to the new handling of your car)...as far as alignment numbers, I havent a clue but I would suggest stock camber etc. just for reliabilty and durability

imported_BoOsTd

Like Gatherer said, the higher rate spring in the rear with the sway up front should give a neuteral handeling, Im hopeing for "abit" of oversteer tho (as in i want the as to start slipping before the fronts decide to push...I dont want premature oversteer), maybe that can be achived in the camber settings.? Or a soft rear bar, or leaving the front lower tie bar out of the equasion... Or I guess trial and error lol...

imported_gatherer

gatherer's advice....


there is not a "best way" to change the suspension

follow this rule:

do 1 change at a time and drive with it and see what it's like then do another change... and by drive with it .. I mean like 1000 KM's or more .. and not hwy driving something with turns (because you are changing the suspension...


BTW I'm still thinking over numbers 5 and 6

but I know for a fact that number 7 and 8 are wrong...

basically with tire pressure... it's this simple:

there is a pressure range for a tire and car combination that will generate the most grip. if you go above (over inflate) or below (underinflate (most dangerous then the first option)) you will cause that end to let or slide sooner then the end with the required pressure range...

for example... on the race car ... since it's bone stock ... I can ussually get tons of over steer... (CNAC run 2 on saturday prime example of too much oversteer I spun out on the first slalom... oppps)

anyways I generally run 36 in the front ... I use shoe polish on the side walls to see if I'm "rolling over" on to them ... if I am I raise the pressure if I'm not I drop it slightly....

now for the rear... generally I start with 38 PSI and if I understeer on my run (front end push) I raise the pressure... (if I oversteer too much (loop the car around) I drop the pressure...

now those pressures are great for the race car but a little high for the street since you want the tire to be able to absorb some of the bumps... however for street tires at an autocross before I got my race tires pressures were up in the high 40's in the rear and around 42 in the front...

anyways got any questions just ask .. or hey even better catch me at a meet and pick my brain....

btw you made my monday morning with a reasonable and fun topic to watch .. thanks

imported_BoOsTd

Ok thanks guys.

So i should set the alignment set to factory settings?

And is it wise to play with camber without the aliginment rack to dial it in perfectly? Can a carpenters Level ontop of the tire provide accurate adjustments? The kit i have is the complete upper controll arm with the moving balljoint, it has increment tick marks, not sure if its very accurate or not...

And anyone know the SIR Swaybar size ...19mm?

imported_gatherer

yes ... alignment should be the last thing you play with


not recommended...

since you have the bar use a caliper to measure the bar... best way to do it....

imported_gatherer

btw when you lower it get it corner wieghed and balanced properly... then get the alignment ... one change at a time thats what I say....

imported_BoOsTd

forsure! i need to find a place that does this, i live out of the city so its hard for me to shop around lol...

imported_gatherer

I know there's one in scarborough I just don't have the info....

not sure if affiliates have scales or not ... try calling them...