supercharging a b16
29-Jul-2007, 08:06 PM
#21
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 90
why not set some goals for your project and start deciding which options you want from there?
what hp?
track car or daily driver?
what is more important, big power, or reliability, or good mileage?
there are many things to consider before you decide to start. don't just pick a bunch of parts because they are a good deal... try to approach it as a complete package aiming for your goal. i've said it before, better to spend the money and do it right the first time, rather than spend more money trying to get right the second and third time.
what hp?
track car or daily driver?
what is more important, big power, or reliability, or good mileage?
there are many things to consider before you decide to start. don't just pick a bunch of parts because they are a good deal... try to approach it as a complete package aiming for your goal. i've said it before, better to spend the money and do it right the first time, rather than spend more money trying to get right the second and third time.
29-Jul-2007, 09:30 PM
#22
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 97
i would like some extra power around 50whp would be enough as long as i can make use of the entire powerband, and i need it to be reliable, i drive my car daily, and i guess once i upgrade the suspension and brakes i wouldnt mind taking it on the track every now and then...
gas mileage.. hmm.. right now i get 350km per tank with my driving style... would that # go up or down?
with the amount of power gains im looking for it could be accomplished NA but my guess is i would spend more taking that route..... or am i wrong?
gas mileage.. hmm.. right now i get 350km per tank with my driving style... would that # go up or down?
with the amount of power gains im looking for it could be accomplished NA but my guess is i would spend more taking that route..... or am i wrong?
29-Jul-2007, 10:27 PM
#23
you'd spend $5000 trying to get 50whp out of your b16 n/a....plus some for a good header and exhaust system. Trust me, i've got a b16 that was built for n/a made 30whp over stock (roughly) and the same torque (its still only a 1.6L), it was ported, about 11.5:1 CR, stage 2 cams, valve train, cam gears (at basically stock settings, just correcting it for how much the head was milled), different intake manifold and throttle body, decent header and 2.5" free flowing(ish) exhaust, tuned with crome, it was fun, ripped from 6000-8500rpm. Then i boosted it. 580cc injectors, 255lph fuel pump, you know....the essentials.
Boost is by far, hands down, the way to go.
I daily drive my boosted honda and have lots of friends that do as well, and most of the ones i've tuned are daily driven (lots year round too.....like mine). So as long as the tuning is good and the setup isn't half-assed you can have a reliable, fast car.
I've noticed an increase in fuel mileage since i've boosted my car, even with a fair share of spirited driving.
If you really wanna stay n/a, b20vtec is the way to go. They have a wicked powerband and don't cost that much to build if you keep the bottom end stock (just don't go crazy with the revs).
N20 is another option.....50whp at the push of a button, or when you go WOT (with the zex kit).
Boost is by far, hands down, the way to go.
I daily drive my boosted honda and have lots of friends that do as well, and most of the ones i've tuned are daily driven (lots year round too.....like mine). So as long as the tuning is good and the setup isn't half-assed you can have a reliable, fast car.
I've noticed an increase in fuel mileage since i've boosted my car, even with a fair share of spirited driving.
If you really wanna stay n/a, b20vtec is the way to go. They have a wicked powerband and don't cost that much to build if you keep the bottom end stock (just don't go crazy with the revs).
N20 is another option.....50whp at the push of a button, or when you go WOT (with the zex kit).
29-Jul-2007, 11:27 PM
#24
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Location: Toronto
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hey zeeman, so when u did ur motor NA did u have any gains under 6000rpm or was it all above that point?..
ya i dont want the b20 cuz i know i cant rev it high..
i started off with the b16b for its ability to rev high so if i build up my motor and dont make use of its top end capability ill feel like it a waste of a motor and i might as well have started off with the gs-r and saved $$
besides the motor i have no other power mods to my car except
a 2.25" pipe, no cat, no resonator, half decent muffler...
if i continue NA the following are my immediate/near future plans..
cold air intake $150
hytech header $800
port and polish the head $1000
stage 3 cams, cam gears, valve spring/retainer $1000
higher comp. pistons (not sure what compression to go with.. make a suggestion!) $500
upgraded connecting rods $1000
custom programme and dyno tune $500
is what im planning to pay accurate? would it be more... or less? and what kinda gains should i expect (will this fulfil my requirement of the power im looking for)?
**edit**
and r u still running the same internals and setup once u started using boost??
ya i dont want the b20 cuz i know i cant rev it high..
i started off with the b16b for its ability to rev high so if i build up my motor and dont make use of its top end capability ill feel like it a waste of a motor and i might as well have started off with the gs-r and saved $$
besides the motor i have no other power mods to my car except
a 2.25" pipe, no cat, no resonator, half decent muffler...
if i continue NA the following are my immediate/near future plans..
cold air intake $150
hytech header $800
port and polish the head $1000
stage 3 cams, cam gears, valve spring/retainer $1000
higher comp. pistons (not sure what compression to go with.. make a suggestion!) $500
upgraded connecting rods $1000
custom programme and dyno tune $500
is what im planning to pay accurate? would it be more... or less? and what kinda gains should i expect (will this fulfil my requirement of the power im looking for)?
**edit**
and r u still running the same internals and setup once u started using boost??
30-Jul-2007, 01:12 AM
#25
i noticed a nice gain throughout the entire powerband...but i mean 111ft/lbs of torque is squat. Thats the downfall of the 1.6's.
You're prices seem about right (except for the connecting rods, you can get rods for about $400 now)....provided you do all of the work yourself, if not, add more for labour installing those parts.
Or take that $5000 and use $3000 to buy a decent turbo kit, $300 for injectors, $150 for a fuel pump, enough for tuning and a little left over for a better clutch/flywheel and maybe some tires....and enjoy making 250+ whp on relatively low boost....or 300whp if you've got the guts.
And yes, i'm using ALL of the same parts that i was using on my n/a setup (except for the header) that i am using on the turbo setup.
You're prices seem about right (except for the connecting rods, you can get rods for about $400 now)....provided you do all of the work yourself, if not, add more for labour installing those parts.
Or take that $5000 and use $3000 to buy a decent turbo kit, $300 for injectors, $150 for a fuel pump, enough for tuning and a little left over for a better clutch/flywheel and maybe some tires....and enjoy making 250+ whp on relatively low boost....or 300whp if you've got the guts.
And yes, i'm using ALL of the same parts that i was using on my n/a setup (except for the header) that i am using on the turbo setup.
30-Jul-2007, 09:05 AM
#26
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 97
i think my motor is rated 118ft/lbs of torque from the factory.. im hoping there is room to squeeze out a bit more.. 130ish??
but i guess with boost that wouldn't a problem no more...
i wont be doing the labour myself but plan to do most of this at one time to save on labour redundancy.
how does ur stage 2 cam affect ur boost? isnt there too much overlap?
and besides good tuning, what is preventing your motor from going kaboom with that compression ratio??
but i guess with boost that wouldn't a problem no more...
i wont be doing the labour myself but plan to do most of this at one time to save on labour redundancy.
how does ur stage 2 cam affect ur boost? isnt there too much overlap?
and besides good tuning, what is preventing your motor from going kaboom with that compression ratio??
30-Jul-2007, 09:35 AM
#27
don't expect to see much more than 120ft/lbs to the wheels out of a n/a 1.6L.
The stage 2 cams work great with boost, if/when i go to the dyno and i see a power loss up top (indicating too much overlap) i'll simply adjust the cam gears and tune out the overlap.
Its all in the tuning, i can't stress that enough. If you want a fast, reliable, streetable car get it tuned properly (not just dyno tuned either).
The stage 2 cams work great with boost, if/when i go to the dyno and i see a power loss up top (indicating too much overlap) i'll simply adjust the cam gears and tune out the overlap.
Its all in the tuning, i can't stress that enough. If you want a fast, reliable, streetable car get it tuned properly (not just dyno tuned either).
30-Jul-2007, 04:33 PM
#28
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 97
Originally posted by zeeman
Its all in the tuning, i can't stress that enough. If you want a fast, reliable, streetable car get it tuned properly (not just dyno tuned either).
Its all in the tuning, i can't stress that enough. If you want a fast, reliable, streetable car get it tuned properly (not just dyno tuned either).
30-Jul-2007, 11:22 PM
#29
dyno tuning is the only way you can squeeze the max power out of your setup....period.
But unless you're on a dynapack partial throttle tuning is difficult.
And....i don't need street tuning b/c my tuner said his basemaps are that good....doesn't cut it, seriously.
Street tuning is important, if you're gunna drive the car on the street every day, where else better to tune it than on the street? During real driving conditions....not in front of a big fan turning rollers, like on a dyno.
I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT DYNO TUNING ISN'T IMPORTANT.
Dyno tuning is the only way you can tune for max power. But to only dyno tune your car IMO is silly. You need partial throttle/cruse/idle portions of the fuel maps tuned properly to have a good driving, reliable, fuel efficient, powerful car that will start up and run nicely everytime. It doesn't cost any money by the hour to drive around on the street. Dyno time is typically $75-120/hr not including tuning. If you want dyno tuning it can be $130-200/hr.
But all the tuning in the world won't help if the setup is all janked. Oil leaks, blown gaskets overheating issues are all things that you need to be on top of. Having a turbo car, honestly, isn't THAT much more maintainance than a n/a car.
But unless you're on a dynapack partial throttle tuning is difficult.
And....i don't need street tuning b/c my tuner said his basemaps are that good....doesn't cut it, seriously.
Street tuning is important, if you're gunna drive the car on the street every day, where else better to tune it than on the street? During real driving conditions....not in front of a big fan turning rollers, like on a dyno.
I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT DYNO TUNING ISN'T IMPORTANT.
Dyno tuning is the only way you can tune for max power. But to only dyno tune your car IMO is silly. You need partial throttle/cruse/idle portions of the fuel maps tuned properly to have a good driving, reliable, fuel efficient, powerful car that will start up and run nicely everytime. It doesn't cost any money by the hour to drive around on the street. Dyno time is typically $75-120/hr not including tuning. If you want dyno tuning it can be $130-200/hr.
But all the tuning in the world won't help if the setup is all janked. Oil leaks, blown gaskets overheating issues are all things that you need to be on top of. Having a turbo car, honestly, isn't THAT much more maintainance than a n/a car.
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