Honda Civic Performance - JDM Discussion Engine tech, forced induction, springs, shocks, brakes, tires, etc.

Screaming B...

Old 31-Mar-2007, 01:04 PM
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Screaming B...

How high of rpm can the stock bottom end of a b16a2 handle?

I'm planning on doing cams/valvetrain/itb's etc.....and i'm just curious how much it will take...


Thanks.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 01:17 PM
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itbs on a b16?!?!?!......why?

For ITBs to be worth it, you need displacement, compression and lots and lots of headwork....otherwise i'd just stick to a manifold.

I know people that take their b16s to 9k all day. I take mine to 8500rpms, but thats where my setup stops making power.

Just so you know, (from my experiences) b16s don't like huge cams or a buttload of overlap.

......waiting for m_power to chine in.....
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 01:32 PM
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Ok....I knew i was gonna get chewed up for mentioning itb's.

I've done alot research and I KNOW they are hard to tune and I KNOW they are not necessarily 'the best' for a b16.

They needs displacement eh? Well then street bikes running itb's (which would be...um...all of them) must be useless eh?

I'm not planning on going to rediculous cams, but something that will bring it up to 180+whp NA tuned.

I want to do itb's to be different, and I do plan on doing alot of head work, so don't think you can convince me not to do it.

Back to the topic...so it will handle 9k...ok, good to know. I will have to look at some different cams and see what the rpm power range is on em and compare to see what will work best.

Thanks.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 02:05 PM
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you can't compare a street bike to a b16.
Do b16s rev to 14,000rpms....i think not.

Man, if you're not going all out, don't get ITBs.

Talk to people that actually have ITB's.

I wouldn't take my b16 to 9k.....but i know people that do, the same people also have blown up almost every b-series engine out there, so is it safe....thats debateable.

I don't need to convince you to do anything, do what you want....and i'll enjoy my b16 (that i didn't spend $1200+ on ITB's for) that'll make the same power as yours and be way more reliable and won't require seasonal tuning.

All street bikes run ITBs?!?!?!?!....get your facts right.

Just so you know, you won't be different with ITBs, its been done over and over and over and there are more people with regular manifolds that make the same sort of power (unless we're talking a 13:1 CR b20vtec here) as the crazy people that run ITBs.

Did omnimans 200whp b16 use ITBs?

But hey, i'm sure you'll prolly go tossin some BC4's in your b16 with 10.5:1 CR too.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by VTEC_Thunder
I want to do itb's to be different, and I do plan on doing alot of head work, so don't think you can convince me not to do it.
sounds like you've made up your mind. what the **** do you want from us?

zeeman told you his opinion and you're already whining about it how you're being chewed up.

this thread is gay.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 04:42 PM
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im pretty new to this forum.. and even i know zeeman knows what hes talkinga bout.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 08:31 PM
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how are you being different from going with itbs? lol that's not logical at all for a dd.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 08:33 PM
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if you put carburators on, THAT would be diff't. either Mikuni or Weber carbs.
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Old 31-Mar-2007, 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by zeeman
......waiting for m_power to chine in.....
Zman already knows wah gwan. b16's with stg 1 cams peak at or a bit beyond 9K. i'll make this short..if you wan to rev very high with the 16, or any motor for that matter, you should look into investing money on lightweight internals. and, you'll need a 4.785 f.d. at the very least to benefit at all from revving so high. your goal will be, getting to peak power quickly, cuz the 16 is gutless. the gearing is simple mathematics. and, that chassis better by light as **** if you want to have a fighting chance. with that being said, forget the rpm and concentrate on useable power. displacement owns
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 11:26 AM
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in europe in the early or mid 60s there was a car called the NSU Prince that was super lightweight and is said to have had a 12000 rpm redline, the racing versions of which had displacement between 1000-1200 cc's, so m_power is absolutely correct about the weight issue. these were cars that weighed like a half of what your civic weighs.

also, if you read zeeman's and mine debate about the LS and B20 VTEC, you would have seen mention of 'area under the curve'... this is exactly what comes into play... power really high up that is inaccessible is useless. if you can't overcome the 1000-4000 rpm range due to lack of torque or heavy internals or a heavy chassis or bad gearing.... then you'll never get to the 9000+ RPM. ever notice how fast formula 1 cars rev up? they bang through gears like every few seconds.... cound how many seconds it takes you to go through 3rd into 4th gear... starting from about 2000 rpm.

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Old 01-Apr-2007, 11:27 AM
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From I've heard/learned...on a stock block 8600rpm to "save the stock block". Higher if you don't care about the block.

m power is right about the f.d. and the weight.

I wouldn't put ITB's on a cammed b16 unless you are the guy that just wants to say "I have ITB's". You need something close to honda-tech's !LL W!LL setup: http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1201433
before it's worth the trouble. After he put the ITB's on it didn't really raise the peak power but it gave more midrange.
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 11:29 AM
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man your setup will be pointless what cams are you running.

a stock b16 block like stated will not like huge cams it has very little displacement short stroke and not enough compression.

get a mild port job with a valve job a itr or similar intake manifold a slightly bigger tb thinner head gasket with high comp valves and some proven s2 s2's which is even then over camming the engine and you prob wont' need to rev past 8600 rpm I mean I woudln't


you are basically wasting your money
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 01:42 PM
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can anyone tell me what ITB is???
google tells me that it is

Industry Training Board or
Information Technology Budget
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 02:35 PM
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Individual Throttle Bodies.
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 02:38 PM
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lol
individual throttle bodies.
but dont you guys understand. itbs are madd jdm tite and get you enough fanboy points.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=460697
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by moto_spritz
can anyone tell me what ITB is???
google tells me that it is

in the butt

individual throttle bodies like homefry said. you know how our cars have one throttle body attached to an intake manifold? well we'd do away with the manifold for the most part, just keep the runners a lil bit, then attach one throttle body for each cylinder.
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by dingus888
some proven s2 s2's which is even then over camming the engine and you prob wont' need to rev past 8600 rpm
oh, he'll need to rev past 8600rpm with s2s2's. there is a funny trend that has swept vtec nation the past 3 years or so...overcamming. its completely out of control. i've noticed, over the last while that 95% of motors being built have too big a cam. s2s1's peak in the 9000rpm area in a 16, with a good header (I,E, IM, bumped compression) and tuning. s2s2/blox b, to me, are some of the best 1.8-2L profiles available. they aren't that hard on VT, and make good power from 6-9K. i honestly believe the s2s2 is still too big for a 16, good choice......but too much. as for the 16 having a rpm limit of 8600rpm...ummmm, no. that thing can take 9-9.3K all day long with the proper set up & head components...stock shortblock

with that being said, i always questioned why leitner ran Crower 2's in his 2L, thinking they were too small...now i know. peak power don't mean sheeeeeeeettttttttttt
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 04:54 PM
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You want 10,000 rpm or higher? Get a rotary...Honda engines are rev happy but not THAT rev happy.
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 07:27 PM
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vtec_thunder just got slapped with some good ol fashion pwn
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Old 01-Apr-2007, 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by m power


with that being said, i always questioned why leitner ran Crower 2's in his 2L, thinking they were too small...now i know. peak power don't mean sheeeeeeeettttttttttt


ya, imo the best cams for the b16 are the ctr cams...those and the ctr pistons and its a done deal and cheap...
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