questions about "frankenstein" motors.
07-Sep-2005, 08:34 PM
#1
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questions about "frankenstein" motors.
ok i think i'm going to go this route. from what i heard from all the info i've read on the net, it'll be reliable as long as i build it right. im not sure which motor to do this on though. B20 or B18? like in the previous thread, the B18 has more parts that are interchangable from the vtec motors. i do plan on rebuilding the motor but have no idea to what extent at the moment, so i need some advice on what to do. i still need to do tons of research though. which motor will be more reliable? which motor is better bang for the buck? i was thinking maybe i start buying all the parts slowly and when spring comes along, i can have everything put together and be good to go. the only thing that i really have no idea about is the cost of this project. also how much is labour for motor work? like say i have to send the block to get machined, get the head pnp, and get my motor assembled. keep in mind that this motor will be for a car thats dd and will go to the track every now and then during the summer time. my goal is to have 200whp. the B20 sounds nice with from what i've seen, easily 20ft/lbs more to the wheels over the B18.
07-Sep-2005, 09:04 PM
#2
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yeah but who do you trust to build it "right"...i've seen them haul some ***, never owned one though...but the people that had them ran into problems eventually...and to get it "right" takes more than just a head and VTEC conversion kit 
...just telling you what i've seen, no experience with one though. And i'd get a LS/Vtec if you end up doing it, just because of the amount of info on it. I wouldnt use one as a daily driver, but thats just me.
...just telling you what i've seen, no experience with one though. And i'd get a LS/Vtec if you end up doing it, just because of the amount of info on it. I wouldnt use one as a daily driver, but thats just me.
07-Sep-2005, 09:46 PM
#3
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i know it takes more than just slapping a head on and call it a day. if the costs are the same as swapping a gsr then should i just save up until i can gsr and build the gsr? i just want a little more torque than the average 1.8 vtec motors.
07-Sep-2005, 11:36 PM
#5
well a similarly built b20vtec will yeild more power but cost more than a lsvtec. All parts minus the pistons on the b18 and b20 engines are the same, so the same parts you would put on a lsvtec go on a crvtec.
Such as ARP rod bolts (a must if you want to rev past 7200) and ARP head studs, gsr oil and water pump/timing belt, vtec oil feed line, bearings. The only diff between the lsvtec and the b20vtec is the need for aftermarket pistons to raise the compression on the b20.
All of the same machine work (in my opinion) needs to be done to either bottom end, balancing rotating assembly, align hone, decking, hot tank, checking clearances and assembly.
A lower compression b20vtec will make more power than a higher compression lsvtec, which is nice with gas prices these days...lol.
The whole advantage of a lsvtec is the use of stock b-series pistons to achieve your desired CR. I would personally use p30 or p73-00 (jdm itr) b/c my head is milled .030". Another advantage of using the LS is that the block has the pcv system integrated into it already, the b20 you need to drill/tap a hole in the block and run a catch can. Now it is debatable whether or not this is completely necessary but IMO it is to build a reliable, lasting b20vtec....and am how i am currently building my b20 for crvtec.
The use of a gsr/itr block girdle is also debatable in my opinion, i'd say toss in some ARP main studs and call it a day. Its not worth it for what it would cost to retrofit a girdle and use the windage tray and pick-up, unless you plan on seeing 9,000+ rpms. You have to remember this bottom end wasn't designed to rev that high, it has the longest stroke of the bunch and thats why they make so much torque and is one of the most appealing aspects of ls/crvtec over building a gsr.
And on the real, your going to easily spend $5000 on parts and machine work for a reliable, powerful well built bottom end.
Then how crazy you want to go on the head will determine if this is a $10,000 engine or not and if it makes over 200whp or not.
Such as ARP rod bolts (a must if you want to rev past 7200) and ARP head studs, gsr oil and water pump/timing belt, vtec oil feed line, bearings. The only diff between the lsvtec and the b20vtec is the need for aftermarket pistons to raise the compression on the b20.
All of the same machine work (in my opinion) needs to be done to either bottom end, balancing rotating assembly, align hone, decking, hot tank, checking clearances and assembly.
A lower compression b20vtec will make more power than a higher compression lsvtec, which is nice with gas prices these days...lol.
The whole advantage of a lsvtec is the use of stock b-series pistons to achieve your desired CR. I would personally use p30 or p73-00 (jdm itr) b/c my head is milled .030". Another advantage of using the LS is that the block has the pcv system integrated into it already, the b20 you need to drill/tap a hole in the block and run a catch can. Now it is debatable whether or not this is completely necessary but IMO it is to build a reliable, lasting b20vtec....and am how i am currently building my b20 for crvtec.
The use of a gsr/itr block girdle is also debatable in my opinion, i'd say toss in some ARP main studs and call it a day. Its not worth it for what it would cost to retrofit a girdle and use the windage tray and pick-up, unless you plan on seeing 9,000+ rpms. You have to remember this bottom end wasn't designed to rev that high, it has the longest stroke of the bunch and thats why they make so much torque and is one of the most appealing aspects of ls/crvtec over building a gsr.
And on the real, your going to easily spend $5000 on parts and machine work for a reliable, powerful well built bottom end.
Then how crazy you want to go on the head will determine if this is a $10,000 engine or not and if it makes over 200whp or not.
08-Sep-2005, 12:22 AM
#7
I am building a b20b bottom end and using the head that is on the b16 in my car now. The head already has lots of work done to it and stage 2 cams, it pulls real hard from 5500-8500 but i am looking for the torque that the b20 will provide.
If you don't plan on spending more than $5000 then i would be leaning more towards a b18 setup like dungus mentioned. But i would definately use ARP rod bolts and head studs and gsr oil and water pumps if you want it to last. And go with p30's or pct (civic type R...b16b) to really make those ITR cams sing.
I am building a 12:1 CR b20vtec tuned with uberdata.
If you don't plan on spending more than $5000 then i would be leaning more towards a b18 setup like dungus mentioned. But i would definately use ARP rod bolts and head studs and gsr oil and water pumps if you want it to last. And go with p30's or pct (civic type R...b16b) to really make those ITR cams sing.
I am building a 12:1 CR b20vtec tuned with uberdata.
08-Sep-2005, 08:53 AM
#8
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the 1.3mm extra stroke isnt worth all the hassle. i used a gsr crank and still netted almost 160 torque to the wheels (the only number that really matters anyhow). the main thing you should think about before you start is WHO is going to build it. research that then when you find someone who knows his **** ask him what you should use. any person who will build you this engine for $5000 parts in you should be weary of cause 200whp doesnt come that cheap and if that is your goal use aftermarket stuff cause OE wont cut it. imo go gsr and build it up.
in passing i want to mention something about main studs...when you use them the block needs to at least be line honed if not bored because you are torquing them to 70lbs which is a hell of alot more than the stock main bolts so be carfull.
in passing i want to mention something about main studs...when you use them the block needs to at least be line honed if not bored because you are torquing them to 70lbs which is a hell of alot more than the stock main bolts so be carfull.
08-Sep-2005, 11:38 AM
#9
its worth the hassle if you don't want/can't afford to sleeve the block like you did. Sleeving a block is big $$$. IMO its cheaper to use a ls/b20 over a gsr, not to mention easier to find one. If you are going to rebuild a gsr you will be using pretty much the same parts that you would if rebuilding a ls/b20.
I agree with ^^^^ it doesn't matter how good of parts you use if someone who doesn't know what the hell they are doing builds it for you. Have LEITNER build it and you won't be disappointed. Building an engine is a precision art.
And its good that you mentioned that about the main studs b/c i failed to. In my opinion whats necessary to prep a block for main studs is just part of the machine work required to rebuild an engine anyways.
And steve your last 2.0L build made me cream my pants. And i agree with you, power doesn't come cheap, and $5000 prolly won't net 200whp. $5000 is more what would be spent on the head or block alone.
I agree with ^^^^ it doesn't matter how good of parts you use if someone who doesn't know what the hell they are doing builds it for you. Have LEITNER build it and you won't be disappointed. Building an engine is a precision art.
And its good that you mentioned that about the main studs b/c i failed to. In my opinion whats necessary to prep a block for main studs is just part of the machine work required to rebuild an engine anyways.
And steve your last 2.0L build made me cream my pants. And i agree with you, power doesn't come cheap, and $5000 prolly won't net 200whp. $5000 is more what would be spent on the head or block alone.
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