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max bore on sleeved b16?

Old 05-Sep-2007, 06:59 PM
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max bore on sleeved b16?

i plan on sleeving my b16b and would like to increase the bore. what is the maximum permissable bore i could safely do?
i do not want to increase the stroke as i want to retain high rpm revving capability.

with the bore and stroke how do i calculate my total displacement? (formula plz)
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Old 05-Sep-2007, 07:09 PM
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guess I should read all instead of bits and pieces! my bad
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Old 05-Sep-2007, 07:21 PM
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gee thanks i never knew boring out my throttlebody would increase the displacement of my motor!
guess u learn something new everyday
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 02:49 AM
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Originally posted by 187Chor
gee thanks i never knew boring out my throttlebody would increase the displacement of my motor!
guess u learn something new everyday
you are joking right?

most guys will go 84mm bore that will still allow you to go once over again if you need to rebuild. If i were to build another motor i would probally go 83mm just so i know i still have some meat on the walls incase they get chewed up.
Stock sleeves are good for well over 400whp IMO, seen it done more than once. sleeving is $$$ and is only needed for someone that is planning on going over 500whp.


http://rickwrench.com/bunchofcalculators.html
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 02:58 AM
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hey brian, of course i was joking, the dude gave me a website for boring ur throttle body which wasnt what i asked for..

ya 83mm was what i was planning.. and i wont do it until i blow up.. but since im going with the GT3082R i know i can make big power at which point i WILL need to upgrade the bottom end.. btw i think i would need to upgrade sooner than most others with a b16, i have a b16b so its higher compression.. my mechanic says not to push it past 250whp or im asking for trouble..

my mechanic tells me there is no need to go to 83, i should be fine at 81 it will be more reliable and the 2mm wont make much difference.. a difference of around 80cc in overall displacement from what i understand.. but the reason i wanted to go from the stock 81 to 83 was to gain a little bit of torque low end in the range where i am not in boost yet, so that I have a little more umph driving daily when i dont want to be on the throttle hitting boost...
will it make a noticeable difference? i figured if im paying to sleeve it then its not extra cost to go to 83 but if it it doesnt make any difference when im out of boost and actually makes the sleeve weaker then i wont do it....
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 03:23 AM
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GE sleeved lsvtec, built bottom and top, sell the b16b.
or run the b16b till you "blow it up" like you say, and then when you relise that you just blew up a motor that could of paid for a good chunk of the motor you now have to build, then slap yourself!
A built lsvtec can rev higher than a stock b16b, and will have a longer stroke (which = more displacement, keeping the bore = between the 2). so more disp = more low end tq, and higher reving motor = more hi end HP (provided your TQ doesnt drop). more power throughout.
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 03:31 AM
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brian explain to me how a built lsvtec can rev higher than my b16b?

u know if that combo was the way to go, honda engineers would have mated the vtec head to the ls bottom and we would not have the gs-r but they knew the longer stroke was detrimental to high revving so they shortened it and the b18c1 was born!....... sooo built or not, a longer stroke will not outrev my b16b... a built lsvtec might rev higher than the nonbuilt lsvtec, but i could just build my b16b to out rev the ls vtec too...

ok back to the topic... 81mm to 83mm... and noticeable gains??
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 04:05 AM
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OK
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 09:39 AM
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Stock B16B displacement is 1596cc (81mm bore by 77.4mm stroke), by going 83mm bore, you are getting 1675.81cc. So you are right, the difference is around 80cc.


Originally posted by 187Chor
brian explain to me how a built lsvtec can rev higher than my b16b?

u know if that combo was the way to go, honda engineers would have mated the vtec head to the ls bottom and we would not have the gs-r but they knew the longer stroke was detrimental to high revving so they shortened it and the b18c1 was born!....... sooo built or not, a longer stroke will not outrev my b16b... a built lsvtec might rev higher than the nonbuilt lsvtec, but i could just build my b16b to out rev the ls vtec too...

ok back to the topic... 81mm to 83mm... and noticeable gains??
I thought B18B and B18C have the same stroke? 87.2mm?
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 10:39 AM
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the LS/B20 has a 89mm stroke....whereas the GSR/ITR has a 87.2mm stroke. Not much difference at all, but enough to broaden the torque curve a little with the LS/B20.

All you really need to do to rev a LS/B20 like a b16b is get a crank girdle and balance the rotating assembly up to whatever RPM you plan on spinning it to. Forged internals are a given if you're building it for boost, so the weight you save will really increase the safety/reliability of higher RPMs.

I'm with brian, unless you're trying to well exceed 400whp i wouldn't waste the money sleeving an engine. Instead, i would buy a b18a/b or a GSR and build that instead. Sleeving costs around $2000, then you have to buy the forged internals and pay for all of the machine work. You can grab a complete b18a/b for about $500-700 or just the bottom end for about $150-300. What you could sell the b16b for would practically pay for all of the parts you'd need to build the engine.
Or you could just grab a GSR/ITR crank, get forged pistons/rods for the GSR and install it into your b16b block and have a 1.8L that way. If you plan on buying forged pistons, i'd highly recommend getting at least 81.50mm and boring it a .5mm over, that way you're starting with fresh and true cylinder walls.
Hell if you really wanted to go crazy you could use the GSR crank/rods and sleeve the engine/bore it to 84mm and you'd have almost a 2L.
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 04:24 PM
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You are right Andrew, thanks for the correction.
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Old 06-Sep-2007, 04:29 PM
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NOVA DUST IN THE LAST 2 MINUTES I JUST BACKHANDED MY SCREEN 4 TIMES TRYING TO KILL THAT BUG!!!!!!

zeeman, i believe my motor comes with a lighter than other b16 cranks so i wanted to keep it, and just swap to forged pistons and titanium connecting rods.. how high do you think that will allow me to rev safely?..

would rebalancing the crank help raise my max rpm??
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Old 07-Sep-2007, 12:54 AM
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my question...

is there a point to revving that high? most motors (from what i know.....) stop making power before their TOP rpm limit?

any not do a clean solid build and rev it to where it should be (b16- 8000k mark) and call it a day.
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Old 07-Sep-2007, 12:56 AM
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cause reving hi is cool
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Old 07-Sep-2007, 02:50 AM
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i dont want to rev high just for the fun of it..
i want to rev higher AND make power too..
when u change the design of the motor you change "it's TOP rpm"
look at dyno sheets of cars that are modded and tuned you will see they are making power above thier factory peak.

but thats not the purpose of this thread..
infact, i was looking for a way to make more power in the LOW RPMs and hoped to do that with more displacement, and the issue of revving was brought up when i said i did not want to up the displacement by stroking my motor...
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Old 07-Sep-2007, 10:31 AM
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well you could go with displacement or you could pick a turbo that will be in its peak efficiency range (by reading the compressor maps) at the mid rpm range of your engine.
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Old 08-Sep-2007, 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by 187Chor
i dont want to rev high just for the fun of it..
i want to rev higher AND make power too..
when u change the design of the motor you change "it's TOP rpm"
look at dyno sheets of cars that are modded and tuned you will see they are making power above thier factory peak.

but thats not the purpose of this thread..
infact, i was looking for a way to make more power in the LOW RPMs and hoped to do that with more displacement, and the issue of revving was brought up when i said i did not want to up the displacement by stroking my motor...
AFAIK B16B are made to rev high, making very little power down low, so even the displacement won't help you much if your cams aren't cut for low end power :|, as for drivability, unless you're on the track 24/7 a midrange power band is probably better

^^ from what I learned 250WHP i EASY on stock internals with a b16 series motor
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Old 08-Sep-2007, 12:44 AM
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banana x before i chose to go turbo my goal was around 250whp and i was told by many that it would be VERY HARD and VERY COSTLY if i remained NA.. but im not sure about achieving it with stock internals..
maybe u can direct me towards dyno graphs of b16s makin 200whp+ i am quite interesting in reading on thier setups and seeing what thier powercurve looks like..
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Old 08-Sep-2007, 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by 187Chor
banana x before i chose to go turbo my goal was around 250whp and i was told by many that it would be VERY HARD and VERY COSTLY if i remained NA.. but im not sure about achieving it with stock internals..
maybe u can direct me towards dyno graphs of b16s makin 200whp+ i am quite interesting in reading on thier setups and seeing what thier powercurve looks like..
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant with a Turbo setup, you can make 250WHP on stock internals. probably even more. Ask Zeeman =p
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Old 08-Sep-2007, 08:47 AM
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oh hell ya, i'd say the limits of a b-series is 300whp.
Search on honda-tech, there are tonnes of b16 turbo dyno graphs, pretty much all over 200+WHP.
To hit 200whp on a b16 would only take 7-8psi off a t3/t4. Hell my buddy who was only running a basemap made 211whp on his b16 without vtec working using a 14b turbo at 10psi.
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